Own a TW-Acustic Raven One?

I don't believe that there is any "musically meaningful" differences between many of the "better" tables out there!I'm talking about the host of really good ones on the market(which there are quite a few).
If the product is designed and made well,it will be the arm/cartridge/set-up persons skill level,that will ultimately determine how good your analog system will sound.

I've heard the Raven,and had no reason to doubt it's appeal,but the bad rapping of VPI is absolutely rediculous.I am speaking from a performance aspect,which to me means letting an LP sound as it should!

My experience with the latest VPI TNT/12.7 arm/Lyra Titan-i,all in a fabulous system at a very close friend(ART pre/phonostage etc),totally "speaks to the music"!....It is very reliable too,and holds it's settings!

Everyone is going to have their own preferrence(I own a Sota Cosmos IV and love it)but to bad rap an existing,and proven table(like the VPI's)because the designer continues to improve the product(at pretty fair pricing,btw)is rediculous!

Yes,as with ALL types of products,there will be the occassional lemon(don't I know "this"....don't ask),but VPI is NOT one to make bad stuff often enough to cause concern.

I'll bet a nice Transfiguration cartridge,that an A/B of the top VPI designs against the Raven is NOT going to be a big deal...assuming the other component parts are of high quality and the set-up man is "skilled"!

Just my opinion.

Stiltskin,I hope you don't think I am criticising you for your tastes and experience.You're a great hobbyist and I enjoy your posts...but...

I personally respect your enthusiasm,yet once a hobbyist makes a buying decision,and likes "his" new product(which you definitely should)the natural tendancy is to "lean a little" in this direction!....

I do it too!!

I am sure you have a good approach to things audio,but even though you claim to have heard an almost identical table/arm/cartridge comparison it is still very hard for me to believe the differences between the "particular" VPI mentioned was a cause of the "perceived difference",which was supposedly "significant".

The only way I could buy that,is if it was an older VPI table,or not such a good set-up,or lower in the product line.....The top stuff is too damn good!How do I know this.....because I've heard "them" way too many times,and I tried(really,really hard)to not like them,since I own a competing design,and my friends are "SO" in the VPI camp!!

No doubt you did hear the claimed differences,but I'll bet other factors were at play!VPI does not use an MDF armboard(on the tables I have heard at friends)and the business of rubber belts is "way" overstated.Sorry!-:)

I mean...if the vta/vtf/or cartridge age was off even the slightest(not to mention table level,or speed of platter,etc)this could easily influence the differences you say you heard.....Not to mention the two individual table's set up!

It is really hard to A/B a table/arm cartridge against a competing design,at this level!The "slightest" difference in a "single/subtle" parameter can be the deal killer.

I've heard the VPI TNT's way too many times,at numerous friends' homes and believe me,these guys are absolutely "as or more" serious than "many"!

There is NO way the tables would still be in these "serious" systems if they did not "do" music naturally!!

We are talking about some of the "best" LP collections in a hobbyists home(yeah,software that most of us so easily dismiss,because we are "SO" in love with hardware)on the premises of "these" particular VPI owners that I am referring to,so there is real credibility here as far as I am concerned!!!

One friend of mine has been priviledged to actually do all the Mercury,and a good majority of the RCA LP reviews for TAS on "his" VPI table/tables.This has been updated numerous times,and I have heard them "like a zillion times" over the years,on these discs.The tables are are worthy of their appeal,and have proven themselves to me....Yet,like your experience,there were times I could find "perceived" problems.These worked themselves out,in the long run,and were NOT the tables' problems in the long run!

BTW,a nice HRX with tonearm,pricewise, is a damn good deal,IMO....Not to mention "local support" if needed....Something too many folks easily dismiss,until they "need" a dealer's support!

A long wait(for service,or parts,or a dealer who does not support the stuff he sells,particularly if from abroad)for product problems will easily cause one to "find sonic" problems previously unheard.

I have NO axe to grind,and don't even own a VPI(but know them very well)but hearing the "classic LP's" we all have cut our teethe on over SO MANY YEARS on VPI tables,leaves me in no doubt they are "damn accurate"!!

One does NOT need to prefer the product,for whatever reason,but it still does not take away the fact they are accurate tables......

I am only attempting to be fair and balanced,and this should take nothing away from anyone liking the nicely machined Raven(another good table).

No doubt you have a wonderful table,but even "it" can be picked on,if one wanted to go in that direction.Like anything else the hobby has to offer.

Best

Just to interest those who like to continue the education route,and simply from a "very good read" standpoint....

I'd suggest you(whomever)take a look at the white paper that is on the "Grand Prix Monaco" web pages.

This is just hobbyspeak to me,and I'm not trying to push the table,but "boy" do these guys make a great case for the way they designed that product.Not only the direct drive capability,but almost all of the important factors in "supposedly" getting accurate LP play.

I loved it......maybe the fact that I read it while on jury duty(and bored stiff,just sitting around)had something to do with it's appeal -:)

It really is a fabulous white paper,if one considers themselves to be open to learning as much as they can,on the analog subjest,and it just might cause some to be a bit more enlightened with regards to what actually matters...and what does not seem too plausible!

Good luck