Outlaw 1050 vs. Onkyo SR600

Other than raw features, i would look at how much power the units do at both 8 and 4 ohms. I recently looked at a bunch of AV receivers and the amplifier / power supply sections were PATHETIC. Many of them did WAY less power at 4 ohms than they did at 8 ohms. As you may know, power should noticeably increase as impedance is lowered, NOT reduce as impedance is lowered. This will give you further insight into the build quality of the unit as power supplies are expensive. If they skimped there, they skimped everywhere else. Sean
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I agree that running the speakers on the "small" setting may help things out, but in order to do so, you would pretty much HAVE to have a powered sub. Some people might not have a sub to start off with and may not be able to afford a decent one after making what many might consider to be a considerable investment in the receiver alone.

Besides that, if you had 4 ohm speakers or speakers with wavering impedances across the band, you would still be stuck with the potential for a LOT less power delivery than if you had 8 ohm models with some specific receivers. As such, building a system with a receiver REALLY requires one to look at the entire package as a whole and not just throw "good", "brand name" or "recommended" components together.

While you may think i'm exagerating about the loss of power at lower impedances, take a look at these measurements ( not manufacturers spec's but actual measurements ):

Onkyo TX-DS696: 131 watts @ 8 ohms / 63 watts @ 4 ohms

Technics SA-DX1050: 126 @ 8 / 42 @ 4

Harman Kardon AVR 110: 79 @ 8 / shutdown @ 4

Denon AVR-1801: 97 @ 8 / shutdown @ 4

Pioneer VSX-D510: 138 @ 8 / shutdown @ 4

JVC RX-6010BVK: 100 @ 8 / shutdown @ 6 & 4 ohms !!!

Some Sony ( !!! ) and Yamaha models seemed to hold up the best. Quite honestly, i've always thought of Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha making the best "mass market" receivers. Obviously, not every product in a manufacturer's line will be built to the same level, so don't take these as "blanket endorsements" or "blanket castrations" of these specific brands.

Sony STR-DE675: 131 @ 8 / 108 @ 4

Yamaha RX-V620: 87 @ 8 / 98 @ 4

As such, one can see that one can buy what most would consider a "powerful" so-called "120 watt" ( Onkyo, Technics, Pioneer, etc.. )receiver and have it "pounded" by an 80 - 85 watt ( Yamaha in this case ) receiver if running at lower impedances.

Not only would the lack of power at low impedances result in lower sustainable spl levels, it could result in clipping, tweeter damage and an overall lack of "power on demand" dynamics when called upon to deliver. This lack of "oomph" could take place anywhere in the audio pass-band at low impedances, not just in the low frequency ranges.

This is NOT to say that a more "powerful" unit will always sound better, but it does have the potential to do so since it can more easily deliver the power to the speakers in a more linear fashion with less potential for distortion or dynamic compression & smearing.

As i've mentioned before, specs CAN be useful if you know how to interpret them and what they mean. Sean
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foreverhifi: All of the specs that i posted were from actual testing, not from the manufacturer's specs. All of the units mentioned DID go up in power ( by various amounts except for the JVC ) at 6 ohms but took a major nose-dive below that. Pick a receiver that i mentioned and i'll tell you what it did at 6 ohms.

As far as your comments go, i would basically agree with them from a "common sense" point of view and what i would expect. However, it appears that what we expect and think to be "normal" is NOT what many manufacturers are delivering to us. Once again, let the buyer beware and do their homework PRIOR to buying. Sean
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Believe it or not, those figures were taken from a Consumer Reports buying guide that i ran across. They bought off the shelf units and put them through their paces. Since they don't have a clue about sound quality, they are only good for such things as measuring specs, which is what they primarily go by ( along with cost and features ).

Having said all of that, my brother bought a brand new "100 wpc" receiver a few years back. It was such a gutless wonder that i made him take it back. I found him an older used receiver that cost $30 more and sounded WAY better and had way more "balls". This was his first real introduction into just how different electronics could sound. He had already learned his lesson about speakers shortly before that. Sean
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