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Our home system: How good it is?

My music sound philosophy/reference is the live music/event that unfortunately I can’t mimic on my system or in any other audio system that I heard. I always say that the very best we can achieve is to be nearer to the recording and even this target is a little “ elusive “ to get for say the least.

Through my audio life I heard a lot of different audio systems: I heard it on audio shows, on dealer rooms and on home people’s systems.

With out any doubt the best audio system performances that I already experienced were/are on home systems where I learn several subjects ( including the people music sound priorities ) and one-two of them are the in deep care in the SET UP of each link on the whole audio chain ( including room ). Some of high price systems that I heard it are not very good because its “ lesser “ care on the each link SET UP.

I want to share with all of you my latest experiences that I had 2-3 weeks ago when I visit some audio friends on USA.
I was exposed to 7 different home systems and I share with you my thoughts on only 4 of those home audio systems that I consider have nothing less but top/first rate performance and where I really enjoy the music.

First than all I want to say that all those audio friends were very gentle and with a very high sense on hospitality: thank you in deep to every one for that I really appreciate it in every way including your very value time that you take/give me.

The best subject during my visit to each one of those great people was to know/meet them: meet people with an in deep knowledge on music ( music lovers more than hardware lovers.), with in deep audio experiences, with in deep know how on their each priorities, with in deep care on whole room-system SET UP, with a great software, with an open mind to share and to accept different points of view, with in deep understanding that there are no perfect systems, with a “ humility “ attitude that it is a must to have to grow-up and with the enjoy “ feeling “ of music listening.

This was a very rare opportunity that I enjoy it and that I know I was so lucky about: Thank you again to all of you!!!!

In no order of preference here it is:

HOUSTON: Fred’s place with a dedicated audio room. Acapella big Triolon speakers, Einstein front end electronics, Rockport/Titan i analog rig, Nordost, JC-1s amps, etc.

When the first music note comes from this system you know that it is something special and after a few minutes you forgot about the hardware and start to enjoy fully the software ( either analog/digital ).
The system is so easy to transmit the music “ feelings/emotions “ and let that the sound/music flow directly to your mind.

Those Triorlon are really great and my hat off to Acapella people because they blend three different speaker drivers in an almost perfect mix. I don’t like ( but the immediacy ) horns ( I heard many of them ) and the Triorlon’s has two of them in the midrange frequency range and I have to say that these horns are the lower horn-signature that I ever heard, the mid bass/bass are moving coil drivers and the Plasma tweeter is ( probably ) the speaker star but with out saying “ I’m here “, like I say almost perfect driver blend.

BOISE: Steve’s place with a dedicated audio room. MBL 111 speakers, custom made Berning’s monoblock amplifiers, Technics SP10 MK3 with a Steve self design/build gorgeous plinth with Schroeder Reference tonearm and strain gauge cartridge/front end by Soundsmith and Lyra Olimpos.

This was my three time that I heard MBL speakers and my first time on a home system: what a difference!!!!, these system/speakers are so near the real music that, like in Fred’s system, the only think that you want is to hear music and more music: LP after LP and again!!!!

Those custom made amplifiers are very good match to the MBL’s and has the lower coloration of tube-signature amplifier I ever heard. I know that the MBL speakers are not easy/friendly with tube electronics and in this system everything is on target, of course that Steve’s hand on this count a lot for that.

I experienced here two different quality performance sound: the Soundsmith one ( that is good ) and a MC cartridge one. I have to say that the Soundsmith rig was only 20-30 hours from new and even Steve was “ playing “ with the set-up. Anyway IMHO that day the Lyra quality performance was way better and I enjoy it for many hours. With this MC cartridge things ( great things ) come out specially the non-sense audio system: disappear!, I had only the LP music performance: great performances.

DALLAS: Louis’s place with a dedicated audio room. Kharma Exquisite 1A speakers, CAT’s monobloks ( new ones: 30 hours on it. ), Lamm/Aesthetix front end electronics, Garrad 301/Triplanar/Xv-1and Technics SP-10MK3/SME/Air Tight both with a custom made wood plinths and the 301 with a custom made power supply.

First thing you note at Loui’s place is that huge room, the biggest I ever know ( maybe 2.3 times the Steve or Fred ones that are big. ) in a home stereo system.

Here I think that the stars are those 550 pound each speakers and its room good integration ( not an easy task ). Like the other systems this one is different but really good. This is my second time hearing Kharma speakers and I have to say that are very very good performers.

The whole sound is a refined/sophisticated one where you or anyone are asking for more, not more quality but more time to heard/hear and enjoy music. I was surprised by the 301 rig quality performance ( where I know very well the XV-1 quality. ): first rate, I can’t hear any coloration that I can/could say: “ that’s was the 301 “.

As good as I heard that system Louis told me that through his Lamm amplifiers ( SE 15-18 watts ) the quality of the system’s sound is a step higher!!, unfortunately I can’t hear it with these amplifiers. Anyway a pleasure to hear it on the Cats.

SAN DIEGO: Mark’s place with out a dedicated audio room ( the system belongs to the sitting room ). Revel speakers, Threshold amplifier, Hovland front end electronics and Raven/Triplanar/Ruby 2.

It seems the “ modest “ system on the group but a top quality performer where we know immediately the very hard work that Mark made to achieve that high quality performance. I know very well the Ruby 2 and in this system is something to hear.
Here there is no single “ star “ but a very good set up of audio items group that sounds a lot better that some very high price systems that I heard, money means nothing at all with out whole/overall knowledge.

As different as are all these audio system all them share common things: system whole synergy, when you heard it you know everything is there ( soundstage, good tonal balance, inner detail, transparent, fast response, dynamics, etc, etc, ), nothing is telling you “ I’m here “ ( very well balance ), sounds good with different kind of music and at different SPL levels, you can heard it for many hours and enjoy every minute, etc, etc.

Are these audio system “ perfect “ ?, certainly not: nothing is. Their owners ( all of them ) already know that they have “ land “ to improve and more important that this fact is that all them know where to improve.

Something to “ ask “ to these systems?, well as you know I’m for full range ( octave to octave ) audio systems and if I put really exigent then I can say that all these system “ miss “ the last bass octave/half octave. This bass octave is system/room dependent and speaker design specification dependent: non of those speakers were designed to achieve that low bass frequency range with the same high quality of the other frequency ranges.
Anyway I can say that I never feel the necessity of that bass octave during all those many hours of music pleasure hearing all those audio systems.

It is a nice thing to learn, through other home audio system listening experiences, if what we have at home is in the right “ road “ and this fact help all of us to grow up in the quest of home audio music sound reproduction heaven.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
rauliruegas

Showing 6 responses by elinor

elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
OK, if we are getting nostalgic over bygone audio days, let me say that a close friend and I have spent many hours over coffee remembering our misspent youth in the mid-1960s during which we spent rainy days at Sam Goody in Philadelphia when it was the only Sam Goody outside of NYC and Paramus, NJ. We sifted through thousands of records, talked about music to the record sales help, and listened to audio names we couldn't afford like KLH, AR, Fisher, Marantz, Garrard, Dual, Shure, Pickering, etc. What a wonderful way to while away a nasty Sunday afternoon. We considered the sales help to be friends and we shared stories about music, recordings, and concerts we had attended. The audio sales people never asked us how soon we were going to make a purchase or how much we were willing to spend. Great memories in an age when recorded music has become nothing more than a laundry list on the internet and equipment something to be looked at and not touched at your local high end dealer.

Mark
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
Learsfool,

I think you are not understanding my point. I'm not talking about a universally biased set of ears because of where you are sitting in the orchestra, only how it is perceived by any musician in real time playing based upon where you sit in the orchestra. Musicians have the most accute hearing in terms of all the years they have spent practicing and performing. It is great to see another musician in the high end community! Glad you are here - hear?
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
Raul,

How true. Having played in quite a few orchestras over many years in many halls, I have to say that your observation is spot on. It is next to impossible to hear the whole performing group from your own seat even if you are not playing. If you are playing it is impossible.That's why there are conductors. Yes, they actually keep the orchestra together and in balance or the opposite depending on their own talent. A number of years ago I was in Carnegie Hall attending a rehearsal with the Orpheus Chamber players. I was sitting about 10 rows from the stage in the orchestra seats. One violinist on the end of the section was sitting just a foot or so too far away from the other violinists. From the perpspective of the audience, she was almost playing solo since she did not blend with the rest of the section. Since Orpheus is "conductorless," one of the players always comes out to the audience during rehearsal to listen to the group. Sure enough, a cellist came out to listen to what was going on during rehearsal, stood in the aisle next to me. Before I could say something to him, he heard what I did and told the violinist to move her chair closer to the violin section. So Raul, you are correct. Orchestra players have impeccable ears for tonality and pitch, but if playing in their jobs is the only listening they get, it is very stilted. I mean, what could the perspective of a horn player be sitting in front of the trumpet section their whole lives?
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
Dear Raul,

You do me honor to have mentioned and praised my system during your trip to San Diego. Only in this crazy hobby could a system retailing at about $50K be considered a "budget" system, my words not yours. You are so right about high end audio performance and "synergy" in a system. Choice of components, set-up, wires, speaker placement in a non-dedicated room are paramount in what an audio system will reproduce. Of course, the most important ingredient is the "musical ear" that is used to judge and choose the equipment. Unfortunately, that is the key ingredient that cannot be purchased at the audio store but it is the final ingredient that gives a system its tonality and ultimately its sense of realism. As we discussed, the live event does not exist in your listening room. It is in the concert hall, the opera house, and the jazz club. I have been fortunate in having had the time and money to spend hundreds if not thousands of hours all over the world at the live events in the best venues many times.

Thank you for your honesty in judging my system Raul. I agree with Fcrowder when he says that many listeners will praise your system when they don't necessarily mean it either because they don't have the experience, the right software, or because they are afraid of offending you. I take your praise and criticism seriously because I know how many years you have in audio and because you have owned practically everything known in the industry over the years.

Regarding the path to something greater in my system, I see the Essential 3160 Preamp as being a major step in that direction and I hope to take it in the next couple of years. Rest assured, I have spoken glowingly to all my audio friends about your wonderful preamp. I cannot wait for the day when it graces my room. It is always great to be on the same musical page with someone who is in the hobby and the business.

Best Regards,

Mark
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
Raul,

A few years ago I was talking to another audiophile at a show. We were discussing gear we had heard during the day and he mentioned a new and pricey cd player he had recently purchased. It became clear during our conversation that he believed the new player in combination with the rest of his system recreated music equally to a "live" event. I was not surprised that he actually thought this to be true. I told him what I told you when you visited me. When the Vienna Philharmonic plays in Carnegie Hall and I attend a couple of concerts, it is tough to listen to my audio system the next day. After a day or two, my ear forgets the "greatness" of the live event and my system sounds good once again. It has become obvious to me that too many audiophiles are listening to their systems in a "recreation vacuum" with too little time spent in the presence of the real thing and I suspect that many well intentioned manufacturers are doing the same. My current system is very satisfying to many people who listen to it, but so too were the systems I owned over the years which were "cheap" and far less sophisticated by comparison. This has been true I suspect because they made the "recreation" of the real event sound like the real thing in a convincing way. It isn't the dollars spent, it is the care with which they are spent with regard to recreating the real event that makes the system. I am convinced of this and I have been harping on it for nearly 40 years.

Mark
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
Well Raul,

I am laughing about this. I guess I thought it was a "given" that everyone likes their system. Why would they have purchased the components? Let me put it this way. After 3 days at RMAF earlier this month, I found myself not lusting over anything. Not because I did not hear some very good systems, but because I find my own so satisfying. Let me say that I agree completely with you regarding making changes to your system for the sake of changing the "flavor" or tonal quality without making a true stride forward in absolute quality. Since you have already experienced mine, let me say that I might like mine a bit more with your Essential 3160. But, I can and must live for now as is. Unfortunately, you did not hear my system with my Tri-Planar properly tweaked out as I mentioned to you in an earlier email. I think you would be very pleased.

Elinor
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