Ortofon SPU with 12 inch Jelco arm?

Добрый день chakster,

maybe one reason for our different thought is, that you use
tubes in your system and my rig is purely silicone based ;-)

I had the case that an older and worn record sounded better with
a sharp stylus cartridge. But it was more an exception than the
rule looking only for the stylus. The vice versa case happened as
often.

But it seems we have some parallels as well. I sold my ZYX cartridges
as well and today my favourite carts are a DS Audio and a SPU Synergy.

That’s what the dealers tells to their customers when selling the SPU Classics, i was hooked, but i didn’t worked out for me. The terms "warm and musical" sounds much better in my mind, but in reality i would not call the sound of SPU Classics "musical", i would call it boring in my tube system. But it is always important to try something different in comparison. I don't think we have many SPU followers here on audiogon, people are championing different cartridges, at least it was not easy for me to find anything about SPU on here when i was looking for it. I think the design of the Miyajima (Cross Coil) is an advantage over the oldschool SPU, but the Miyajima belongs to the group of "warm and musical" cartridges too, probably much better than SPU. The Fidelity-Research FR-7f (Air Core Coil) is also unique design and it's pure majic.  

Chakster, I think you may be correct.
Some of us like detailed, analytical but musical presentation. Others like warm romantic midrange strong "old school" sound. I enjoy detail but musical myself but having a second choice in a romantic warm colored way would be fun as well.
Racedoc, thank you very much for sharing your personal experiences that is exactly the information I was asking.

Ok, i owned ZYX Premium 4D and ZYX Airy III models and do not regret than i sold both SPU Classic MKII and even rare SPU Spirit LTD with elliptical profile, the Royal with Replican 100 is better than both of them and perfect for vintage vinyl. I do not have ZYX anymore, i realized it was not my type of the cartridges. But my champ in low compliance design is Fidelity-Research FR-7f now and Fidelity-Research PMC3 

If you think the SPU is great for old records then it’s as "great" as many other generic cartridges (MC or MM), nothing special for old records IMO. But from the stylus profile point of view the benefit of playing old vinyl with Shibata (Line Contact) stylus is obvious because the groove walls on old vinyl are in better condition and only Line Contact can touch these virgin part of the groove walls, the rest of the groove walls on old vinyl (from the 50s, 60s, 70s) is most likely worn by cheap conical tip from that old era. And tonal balance of the cartridge can’t help you in this aspect, unfortunately. It’s all about how to extract the music from the vinyl groove and stylus is responsible for that. The situation is different with new records, maybe some people just like the oldschool sound of that SPU cartridges, but some people are happy even with 78rpm records. It has nothing to do with the sound quality, just personal preferences.

For me the stylus profile does metter.

Hi chakster,

this mainly has nothing to do with the stylus tip.

In my opinion (and many others) the tonally fingerprint of SPUs
really is exceptional fine for older recordings and many new ones.

This is a matter of tonality and recording equipment.

And in this aspect the SPU Royal is maybe a modern SPU
variant but it looses the SPU strengths without matching
e.g. my ZYX 4D or other modern cartridges.

@racedoc

Thirdly in our experience the SPUs give a great value for money
plus they are outstanding in playing old analog recordings.

Could you explain why do you think the elliptical profile is outstanding in playing old records? Those used records have been used in decades in the 50s/60s with conical and later in the 70swith elliptical stylus. Then you track them again with the same type of styli, do you think it’s a good idea? What is the benefit of this generic profile paired with low compliance SPU (with roller off frequency) for those wonderful old records? The Line Contact styli not only sounds better, but they are extract the information from the groove walls previously untouched by the conical/elliptical profiles! For vintage vinyl Shibata (or any Line Contact) is the best profile, but not the elliptical. Was it your friend or you (persionally) who compared the different SPU? My opinion is completely different from what you said, the Royal is superiour even compared to SPU Spirit Ltd and definitely superiour to classic elliptical SPU.

I found the conical/elliptical classic SPU not involving at all and the cartridge (another low compliance) which is much better in everything compared to them is the Fidelity-Research FR-7f.

A friend and me have compared a couple of different SPUs
in the last couple of months.

First the match of a Jelco 12" and a SPU with G-shell is a very
good one. This is due to fact that the Jelco is built for a distance
(headshell base to diamond tip) of 51mm which is exactly what
most G-shell SPUs have.

Secondly you can balance the weight of a SPU with the counterweights
easily.

Thirdly in our experience the SPUs give a great value for money
plus they are outstanding in playing old analog recordings. 

Our current favourites are the Synergy GM if you use a "normal"
phone stage. It has an output of 0,5mV at 5cm/s and sounds
extremly sweet, involving, and "SPU-like".

If you use a high gain phono stage or a SUT (step up transformer)
my recommendation would be the new SPU #1 E GM. It gives you
a real impression of the very special SPU-sound for a really good
price tag.

@mid40sguy i hope you already checked this SPU thread:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/recommend-which-spu 

The problem is that SPU only comes with Conical or Elliptical, except one model called Royal GM and Royal G MKII with Replicant 100 Stylus. In shape, this looks about as much like a cutting stylus as you can get without having a cutting stylus; it appears to be a true line-contact tip, and its specified dimensions indicate that it is a very thin line. It's huge upgrade over the oldschool SPU with conical or elliptical styli.
Ortofon Royal G mk2 is the best SPU in my opinion.

If you don't use styrene pressing (vintage 45s). The Replicant 100 is the best for used/worn records as this is actually a true Line Contact stylus.

But you can check some other cartridges (even MM) with Line Contact styli such as Stereohedron, Shibata, MicroLine and Micro Ridge - this is how it looks under microscope. 

Thanks for your response Chakster. Perhaps I’ve been misinformed to do with tip shape. That’s why I asked here.
My choice for an SPU is simply something I wish to try. I’ve also read some of the Ortofon SPU’s are a good match for someone with beat up older stereo LP’s.
 I’ll research shibata tips. Thanks 

This is very strange statement regarding vinyl from the 60’s & 70’s. Most of my vinyl are from this era. Why do you think the elliptical shape is better? And why do you think the SPU is the right cartridge for those records?

Most likely vintage (old) vinyl are slightly worn by the conical tip, it was the most popular stylus shape, especially in the 60s. Right?

You need Shibata stylus tip to play worn vintage vinyl. Shibata stylus goes deeper in the groove and this area of the groove walls is untouchable by the conical tip (think about it). You can improve the sound quality by using Shibata stylus for your worn vintage vinyl from the 60’s and 70’s. But elliptical stylus can not improve the quality at all. Line Contact stylus is the one you need!