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Ortofon 2M Red Not Happy Need advice

I just got myself a 2M red. was not able to audition, many of the local shops don't have lower models mounted or identical double turntables for comparison. I went with my gut and dropped a minimal amount of cash on it, figured $100 what is the worse that can happen. Well, I am thoroughly disappointed.

I picked it up since I thought my cart was worn and I needed something to tie me over until I get something serious. My old cart is a Grace F9 Ruby and it beats the pants off of the 2M. I have not let the 2M burn in, but there is such a huge difference between the level of detail between the two carts that I really don't think I can stomach the 2M burned in or not.

The 2M sounds muddy, bright, and is lacking detail big time. Jazz at the pawnshop, take five sounded nice, especially the bottom end but everything else was wrong. Jimi Hendrix came on next, bold as love and little wing were used to audition. Wow, Voice is horrid and the guitar solos made me want to leave the room.

The one thing I can say, surface noise was minimized with the 2M, I think this is due to its inability to pick up detail. I thought my f9 was worn, but it sounds A1 in comparison.

What now, upgrade to the blue? I don't get a refund, otherwise I would take it. Dealer doesn't carry audio technica or denon for the 440 and 160 cannot be exchange candidates. I am seeking a warm and detailed sound. What do you guys think? Should I be more patient and wait for burn in, or is that an uphill battle? Hope to hear from you, thanks.

PS: dealer carries: Dynavector, Ortofon, Lyra, Grado and a couple of others.
dfelkai

Showing 4 responses by axelwahl

axelwahl
788 posts
 
Hi,
you say:
>>> there is such a huge difference between the level of detail between the two carts <<<
and
>>> The 2M sounds muddy, bright, and is lacking detail big time <<<
I have a small problem with "muddy" and "bright" all at once, but lets see.

All the above suggestions are valid, yet I have heard far to little on the VTA/SRA being gone into.

Firstly what stylus does your Ruby have? If is a 'parabolic' type (now more often Shiabata, etc.) and it sounded good, I suspect your VTA was arm down from level, (1 - 1.5mm?) that's what this type of stylus most often likes best.

Next look at your 2M Red, and there we do know it is an 'elliptical' stylus and those like arm up (positive SRA/VTA). If I'm right, then those two carts are diametrically opposed in their VTA/SRA setting requirements.

This could mean a difference of 4mm or even more that with the 2M Red the arm *could* need to go up!
If you are not aware of this and you are trying within a much narrower range, you would not come right.

It is just a hunch, since I can not find the stylus spec for your Grace, as it is rather old --- but considered one of the top MMs, still by today's standards (I'm told).

Greetings,
Axel
axelwahl
788 posts
 
Hi,
there we go, as Almarg says:
>>> on what I recall reading from way back when, VTA/SRA needs to be set for it with the arm **considerably down** (i.e. down at the pivot end). <<<

The same I had presumed, and then I was just going to post what Raul had to say about the same cart:
>>>... only the Grace Ruby and F9E and Sonus Gold Blue likes a **negative VTA** <<<

So there we are, and as suggested, that "2M Red" wants **POSITIVE** VTA, a pretty different setting from your old Grace Ruby.

Now for Viridian's comment: ... have to call 'Colombo' on this one.
OK, that Grace might be 'a bit long in the tooth' also as it was mentioned.
Furthermore, a top of the line (1980) Empire S1000 ZE/X, and plenty others used aluminium cantilevers -- AND even their 'nude' options often used just a dab of bonding on top.
That '2M Red' is made by people the must have learned just maybe a bit the last 30 years, that THEY make MM carts also, is that fair to suggest?

So, Dfelkai just before all wind up in a panic, move your arm first to level, and then add 2 or 3mm by going higher and try to find your (new) sweet spot.
I'd be blasted if that cart can't get going that way.

Greetings,
Axel
axelwahl
788 posts
 
Hey! Patience, just a little.
Now you got the VTA closer, and now it will have to run for a bit.

I often found myself 'through the baby out with the bath water'.

Any of those MMs likes at least a couple of hours to settle in.

Maybe your friend's 'Blue' was also setup with the wrong VTA?
Raul has a saying: **NO Plug&Play** (with an MM)
Do not underestimate some trial and error required.

Axel
axelwahl
788 posts
 
Hi Dfelkai
re.: cart break-in (the rest is more 'complex' or call it woo doo).
All I can share is that I simply have noticed that MM carts take for some reason some break-in time. In fact much older broken-in? carts taken out of the system seem to take at least ~ 1 day to come right again.

I must say, that I have not noticed this kind of thing with my MC carts. I have in fact a suspicion it has some more 'electrical' than 'mechanical' reason.
Maybe some expert out there may be able to shed more light on this.

Axel
PS: maybe you want to go over this "Red" test and actually find confirmed what you hear: http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/vinyl07.html
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