2. amps-preamps
  3. 165160-107381

Options for integrateds for Ohm Walsh Tall 2000s?

Hi, all - back in the pairing game and would love to get some free advice from the experts on the 'Gon.  As we've entered our 'empty nest' stage, I've been able to spend more time pursuing my love of music -all types, from chamber music to classic jazz (female vocalists, Bill Evans, Ben Webster, Charlie Haden..) to acoustic to 70s Laurel Canyon to chamber pop, basically anything with melody.   That, and the fact that I don't just sit and listen with my head in a vise, led me to a used pair of Ohm MicroWalshTalls.   To me, they made music, not just sparkle, and were a good fit for our odd listening space where we moved around and lived  - open floor plan, 15x22x9 space for living/dining/kitchen - even while driven by a Marantz PM8004 with only 70/100W for power.  Redbook CD sounded great after 20 years with children and a lot of 'life' and noise at home. 

Not content to leave well enough alone, my inner audiophile started to emerge.  During the pandemic I listened more closely.  I started streaming hi-res with the Bluesound Node 2i. I realized that the MWTs couldn't fully fill the space, though they still sounded great with jazz and vocalists.   I started a conversation with Evan at Ohm Acoustics, like many of you have done.  He was great.  We talked about next steps, I sent him our floor plan, he helped me persuade my better half to approve upgrading to a Walsh Tall 2000 (couldn't get her to go for the 3000).  

So while our 2000s are being built, I need to figure out the replacement for the PM8004.  I've read all of the threads here, many on other forums, and I get what I've read but I'm still parsing all the info.  I have a standmount system in my study that satisfies my detail/accuracy listening needs, so I realize that this 'living space' system can remain musical and less technical and detailed.  I want music, not pristine sound.   My budget is limited - my better half supports my 'hobby' but wants to keep food on the table.  My budget is $800-$1500.  Lower is better.  I don't need a great phono preamp.  I don't need a DAC or streamer, I have the Bluesound and like it.  I want some more watts, high current and good damping, and balanced sound. I think these needs and wants translate into an integrated, gently used.  I've had great luck with used and I don't have access to audition locally or nearby.   

I've done a lot of on-line shopping and research.  Yes, I've subscribed to Zero Fidelity. I've considered the following, which have recently appeared in my price range: 
Class AB:
Yamaha A-S1000, 2000,1100.  Was minutes late for a 2000 on Agon. Have looked at an A-S701, not convinced. 
Marantz PM 14 or 15 series, not sure there's enough watts there.  PM 11 is a physical monster,
Anthem 225.
Parasound Halo integrated.  Lots of stuff I don't need.
Belles Soloist 1.  Missed that one by an hour or two.
I have a history and some fondness for NAD - my current c356BEE replaced a c326BEE, but not sure about the c375, c388, or M3. 
I'm a little nervous about Class D, but:
Rogue Sphinx.
Wyred4Sound STI 500.

What am I missing?  The watts of the W4S are appealing, but I really want a little warmth and musicality.  Will the 2000 provide that with Class D?  I would really appreciate the collective wisdom of those out there who have some experience with Ohms and pairings.    Thanks in advance for your thoughts!






mklinkma
reubent
6,982 posts
 
@mklinkma  - The Rega Elicit-R is definitely not soft. I would consider it well balanced, with great bottom end. The solid bottom end satisfies me to the point that I don't want/need to add a sub to fill-in the bottom. It's just a complete, solid integrated amp, with no shortcomings IMHO. However, I wouldn't pay the $3K MSRP for a new one, as I'm a frugal audiophile. But at the approx. $1500 +/- $200 used price, I find it a great value. And the build quality is fantastic. Feels like it was machined out of a solid block of aluminum. I use it with the matching Rega Saturn-R CD player/transport/DAC. Perfect cosmetic match, same incredible build quality and sound signature. Plus one remote to control the whole system is a plus.

I agree that you should just start with your existing Marantz. After living with it for a bit, then decide if you need an upgraded integrated amp.
mlsstl
1,436 posts
 
For an integrated amp, I'd throw a Schiit Ragnarok into the mix. $1,500 new without the phono and DAC modules, or $1,800 with.  It has 60 watts a channel at 8 ohms and 100 at 4. It is a class A/B amp. 

If the power level sounds low compared to some of the things you've been looking at, I'll share my experience. I have a set of Ohm 1000s that I really enjoy. I had a Hypex nCore amp (150 watts/ch 8 ohms) that I was using. On an impulse, I tried the Schiit Aegir, their version of a 20 watt/ch class A amp. It sounded much better to me than the Hypex. I was worried about having enough power, so I ran it with a meter attached to monitor power levels and discovered it only took about 1/4 of the amp's power to reach my desired listening level of about 85 dB in a medium sized 14 X 24 room with a vaulted ceiling. I did end up adding a subwoofer (the 1000s were a bit small for bass in this room) but the sound is now perfect for me.  

The Ragnarok has triple the power, so I suspect that it will be more than sufficient for your listening level. I like the sound of my system better with the Schiit amps than I did with either of the class D amps I had previously (the Hypex, and before that, a Bel Canto C5i with Ice modules.) 
rill
7 posts
 
@mklinkma,

I guess my opinion of the Class D amp being "too perfect" is that it just lacks the emotion and character of other amps. It very audiophile, which I'm kind of moving away from these days. I refer to the Ohm's as my audiophile retirement speakers... I have completely stopped looking at speakers anymore. 

With that said, there's denying how much of a bargain the W4S STI-500 V2 amp is at the current price, and you will never want for power 

As far as the different Yamaha amps, the 1100 and 2100 switched to Mosfet output transistors which provide a smoother, sweeter sound than the 1000 and 2000. Kind of a personal preference. 


mklinkma OP
8 posts
 
more good suggestions/comments!  

@reubent - good to see your comment about the bottom end of the Elicit.  Will be on the lookout, only current listing is on eBay for $2K, a little high for me.

@misstl - had not even thought about Schiit, but willing to consider.  Anyone else have an experience with the Ragnarok and a relatively inefficient speaker? 

Gotta love that name if you like Norse mythology - Ragnarok - and I spent a lot of time in Norway earlier in my career, including sabbatical in Trondheim, which makes me think of Hegel.  Anyone with experience with Hegel integrateds?   

@rill - thanks for the longer answer.  Makes sense.  I wish there was a realistic way I could audition 4 or 5 of these amps to hear for myself what you are saying.  It looks like you've personally moved through the chain of integrateds I've been considering, so that's especially helpful.  
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,197 posts
 
When I hear “too perfect” I’m thinking the sound of Quad Electrostats but with good dynamics top to bottom. That was the reference sound I was shooting for when I decided to give the newer Ohms a try.
They can deliver that but only with amps that are technically up to snuff to control the drivers with a vice like grip, especially the larger drivers.. That’s the Class D amp sound with the Ohms. Everything is clicking technically but the resulting sound may not be everyone’s cup of tea, especially those who prefer the flavor of particular tube amps.

I also still had 1st generation Ohm Walsh 2s from the 80s when I acquired the 100s and was able to a/b test between the two. The originals were way behind in every regard. Overall tonality was same ballpark but no  quad ES sound there.....clearly rounder and less focused sound in every way, not competitive with most modern good quality “audiophile” speakers.  Of course those were already more than 25 years old at the time......
More to discover