Optimizing TNT, Triplanar, Transfiguration Temper


I'm writing because of a combination of frustration and potential in my turntable set-up. I have never gotten the sound from the system that I expected, but feel that I am beginning to glimpse the potential of achieving it. I have made some changes recently that have led to more changes that have brought me closer to what I have heard from other systems with similar components. I am hoping someone can guide me toward finally obtaining the basic qualities that I'm looking for and I can fine-tune from there.
What I have heard before from lesser components and am not getting is the sound of the transients jumping off the record. I thought this problem was merely from the characteristics of the Transfiguration Temper Supreme, but with some modifications of the table I am beginning to hear it and wanted to see if I could bring it out further.
Let me back-track and tell you my components and what modifications I have made so far. I am running a VPI TNT upgraded to 4 (w/ the rectangle cutout for the motor), with the original motor and just added an SDS (which made the biggest improvement), a Wheaton Triplanar tonearm upgraded to VI, and a Transfiguration Temper Supreme cartridge.
When I upgraded to the SDS, the timing and solidity of the sound improved dramatically. I then found that using a single belt directly from the motor to the table actually outperformed the three-pully design originally designed for the table, perhaps with some trade-offs, i.e. voices sound clearer and better-defined, but piano may have a little less air and realism.
Finally, the table sits behind the speakers, particularly the left speaker. Moving the speaker forward a few inches seemed to significantly clean up the sound, so vibrations from the back of the (B & W 803) speaker may be muddying the water. My other components are Spectral DMC-20 and DMA-180 and MIT/Spectral reference cables.
Like I said, I am glimpsing the potential of this setup, and the music is starting to clean up and jump off the record, but it's just not quite there. I feel like I'm missing something simple and would like advice before making a lot of changes. I think I've set the cartridge up properly with regard to alignment, azimuth, VTA and no anti-skate. I have not removed the damping trough yet, and that is the next thing I was thinking to try. I am planning to try to further isolate the table from the speakers - the cable lengths prevent me from totally moving the preamp and turntable. I was also considering using different belts or string/dental floss etc. Another possibility is investing in a single-motor flywheel, which also would not use the three pulleys included with the TNT turntable. But, I feel that there is something simple and straightforward with the front-end that I am missing. Any advice?
128x128ctlphd

Showing 3 responses by tobes

IMO transients can be seriously impaired by vibrational feedback (and noisy turntable mechanics and speed stability).

I'm not clear exactly which TNT model yours started at, but I achieved quieter backgrounds and better transient reproduction by firstly putting my TNT-1 on a sandbox platform and (later) changing out the the original sprung feet for the 'ball' suspension pods.
Both these changes moved the TNT towards a more neutral sound.
I've read that removing the TNT suspension altogether - using Symposium 'rollerblock' isolators in conjuction with the Symposium isolation platform is a big step in neutrality and transient performance (according to the author of the article). But I haven't heard/compared these to my (cheaper) setup.

Moving from the (somewhat noisy) original motor to the single motor/flywheel also made gains in quieter backgrounds and more explicit transients.
I suspect that the rim-drive option could take could take transient performance even further.

Having said all that, if transient performance is one of your highest priorities, perhaps you should also investigate different turntable options for your Triplanar/Transfiguration.
12-09-11: Ctlphd
Tobes, how big a difference did the single motor flywheel make? I understand they are phasing it out, so if I'm going to buy one, I need to get it now. Also, I thought about the motor sitting directly on the stand being a source of vibration, as it is not isolated like the table. I don't know of any solution to this, as any feet that I'm aware of would put it too high.

I wouldn't say it was dramatic but I thought it a very worthwhile improvement at the time (over my original motor setup - HERE).
Howver, for a similar outlay, you may get a better result with the rim drive option - but I haven't heard that.

In regards to isolation of the motor - you'll need to experiment with this. When I coupled my old TNT motor with solid cones to the same wooden plinth as the table there was a large transference of motor vibration to the table (via the plinth). The rubber feet were much better.
Though I now use the quieter motor/flywheel with split motor/table plinths - where both plinths are damped into the sandbox via aluminium fins - I have persisted with the rubber feet. A stethoscope applied to the turntable plinth confirms the excellent isolation. I have very 'black' quiet backgrounds.

Symposium claim they got marked improvements by coupling the TNT motor/flywheel to their 'Ultra' platform using their 'precision couplers' - See here.
I haven't heard the Symposium stuff, and one must always be wary of manufacturer claims, but I'm interested in the approach. It's something I may investigate.

Whether the direct coupling approach works will be heavily dependent on the platform used and it's isolation from the outsides world. Coupling works both ways.

FWIW, in general, I don't like any spongy rubber feet under components. I feel they smear the sound.
Dgarretson, thanks for the tip - thread drive is something on my agenda to try.
I have experimented briefly with dental floss. This sounded pretty good but then I started to get slippage and speed stability went out the window (I was using it from both the motor to flywheel and flyweel to platter).
I think silk thread should be more a bit more 'grippy'(?)....I just haven't gotten around to trying it.
I'll also try the solid cones again under the motor/flywheel unit, since my setup has changed since doing so.
Cheers, Paul