Oppo Vs Esoteric


Folks,
I would like to acknowledge the fact that I have heard the Esoteric players at AXPONA and coupe of other places. But my question is how much better is a Esoteric K-07X or K-05X compared to the Oppo UDP-205? I know that the Oppo UDP-205 is a killer machine for $1300. But it is a Jack Of All Trades, while the Esoteric is (soft of) Master Of One. So in that sense, can anyone let me know if it is really worth spending $$$$$ on the Esoteric (or a Marantz SA-10 or Luxman) compared to the Oppo?
Please share your experiences if you have compared the Oppo UDP-205 to any high end CD/SACD player.
Thanks!
milpai

Showing 9 responses by atacgene

Hmm, may I ask those who has had listened to the esoteric SACD player what models are they ? I am thinking of getting a second hand exoteric mainly for SACD surround sound. 
It appears Sony gave up on SACD m-ch after SA-60. Apparently the golden age for M-ch were the models XA 777, XA 9000se. They are still on for a $1000 or more. k-01 and others apparently do not even do DSD (forgive me if I am wrong,as there was a bit of fury going on in this thread), at least from somewhere I read but can’T find the source now. If DSD convert to PCM and still beats the Earlier SACD player that used direct stream digital playback then the Sony DSD chips must really suck. Though I don’t see any reviews regards to this.
My question is, should I get an old m-ch Sony and mod it (not even sure how much can be modded) or just get mod Oppo 205? I am mainly concerned with SACD playback (please don’t tell me to rip SACDs, not an option, SACDs are still much cheaper than DSD downloads and M-Ch DACs are rare and costly).

Regards to Video output effect. If the original AC is modded, which can still be done with mod right oppo then it should improve video (if even needed!). Dan said the clock is awesome so he did not mod it. He mainly did the audio output with tube stage. I suppose if I am still not happy with Sabre chip I can go for PS audio but it requires 3 external DAC to do surround!
Apparently Modwright does not do much  with original ac LPS. He uses an external LPS for the analogue output and I am not sure how much that affects the video part. ASI-tech offers a battery power supply (they do this in recording studios!) which may be the best way to improve all the signals including video, DAC etc.  it therefore is not the same mod as modwright but address the electrical input part of the player so it can be done in addition to the mod Wright, may be overkill for a cheap ESS chip!
I heard oppo 205 is best in Blu-ray, the rest are fine but not superb. But the modwright oppo  205 apparently is much better overall, but seems to concentrate on 2-ch output tube stage with separate PS for it. The m-ch part is not really changed much, so not for me. If I want best 2-ch stereo there are many old and new 2 ch players. I heard the PS audio memory player is superb for cd/SACD 
Also I find it interesting modwright oppo 205 beats PS Audio DS but then perhaps oppo works better with PCM? PS audio converts all to DSD, not necessarily good for all PCM. Then also the tube effect of oppo may help a lot. 
If you converts PCM to DSD it may not be that goodm which is what DS DAC does. Many who prefers PCM over DSD are because they are not listening to  pure DSD recordindg/files:

1. PCM converted to DSD via computer or like  DS DAC
2. The original recording is low Res PCM 24/96 and converted to DSD by recording company

Best way to do DSD is to use native DSD files that are originally recorded as DSD, with minimal processing (e.g. no complete conversion to PCM). Then probably should be played on a Dedicated DSD DAC that use DSD circuit. I am not sure Signa Delta chips are that good for DSD, though they tend to do better than PCM. 
I will do more comparison between hi RES PCM (blu-ray audio) and DSD (SACD) from my oppo 95 and see.  

Ok my esoteric SA-60 just arrived yesterday.  Not much time to set it up properly but it sounds totally different from  Oppo.  Will tell u guys more later ! 
Haha,

It is true, the esoteric SA-60 is really beautifully built, all external metal part, only tray is plastic. It is an interesting comparison with my oppo 95.

First obvious change is that it sounds like Hi-Res for both CDs and SACDs (latter is obviously hi res) but the oppo, SACDs can sound like CDs and more fuzzy/blurred. The resolution of the esoteric is amazing, so much that at first it feels mechanical, hard and lacks air, so ultra-detail it may feel rather analytical. The CDs sound as clear as SACDs and sound stage is amazing, instruments all located in appropriate places.
So the soundscape is really different from oppo which sounds warmer, more fuzzy, but resolution is not as good, and there is some haze which I thin I was used to and comfortable with and so when I hear the esoteric it feels as if the esoteric is too dry/hard and mechanical.

But with further listening, as the esoteric warms up again (was not used by previous owner for probably a yr ?) and setting up with full tube gear, its muscality shows up more, and mellows out (or I get used to it?) Despite sounding brighter, a bit more forward soundstage it is actually not fatiguing at all, and no harshness, no high freq roll off, all of which exists in the oppo often.

But it tends to be less forgiving, as poorly recorded CDs/SACDs are not really sounding much better than oppo and may feel worse, so seems to highlight some weaknesses more (or just perceived as worse when compared with other better recordings that now sound amazing). This is somehow more so with SACDs:

The high quality pure native DSD recordings sound really amazing! - perfect soundstage, totally analogue, instruments all well layered and in clear positions. Can even reproduce complex opera with full orchestra, multiple singers without loss of focus or fatigue, which often plagues the oppo when music gets a bit overwhelmed.

SACDs review can be tricky as recording qualities are very variable even in the same time period, meaning you can get poor recordings even now after technology has been there for ? 10 yrs or longer while there are excellent recordings coming out still.

The esoteric highlights the suboptimal DSD recordings very well, it is not interested in sugar coating/covering the flaws at all.

For DSD remastered from 24/96Hz - there is more grain in the tone, and has rougher edges, sound stage is usually narrower, a bit more digital/harsher. Just sounds more like CDs. The oppo also shows this but not as obvious, its fatter/warmer tone masks these better and can seem more tolerable, and since the real DSD recordings do not sound as superb, the difference between true DSD and PCM remastered recordings are not as great.

The DXD remastered to DSD recordings sound very good too, without the issue with lower res PCM transfer, though I still need to listen to them more to compare.


Also one thing it does quite well with CDs is that it seems to make recordings with poor resolution on CDs better than before at least on a recording I tried, tends to make CDs sound like hi-res, but perhaps may lose some warmth. Have not tired many poor recordings yet.

Bear in mind my comparison with oppo is from memory as I cannot really do A/B comparing easily (needs to unhook/and rehook, and I have limited space for doing that. The opp 95 is supposedly inferior to 205 and it is stock, unmodified. Not sure how a 205 would compare, esp if it is modified.

For M-ch I have not had much chance doing and my setup is suboptimal but the brief tests I did with pentatone recordings were amazing/jaw dropping on some great recordings! I may try some a/b comparison with M-ch as no one online seems to have done that (don’t blame them, it is hard work with all the wires!). M-ch is really taking one to another level of listening that it warrants a separate discussion thread, once you try it, will never go back to 2-ch... .

hope this helps anyone out there who wants to know oppo v s esoteric