06-01-14: Ben_campbell
But going direct from the Oppo into the direct option on the Osiris even with attenuators you can not even get close to 75-so possibly that has had an impact on the noticeably inferior sound I hear.
I don't know how accurate this might be-it would be interesting to hear what output setting those using the Oppo direct in a power amp are using. Hi Ben, If you prefer the transparent sound of direct connection, but you can't get to 75% or over on the VC of your Oppo, you could use the passive pre, this way you will still get very close to the direct sound, so you can turn the Oppo up to full and set the volume on the passive for the loudest you'd wish to hear and then use the Oppo's remote volume within it's top 25% of full output without running the risk of "bit stripping" As for the output setting on other users Oppo's on their systems. It will be solely dependent on the gain of their amps and efficiency of their speakers, some will be in the same boat as you, not being able to get to 75% or over. And some will be over over 75%, these are the lucky ones, but a passive pre sorts this out, as I explained above. Cheers George |
05-14-14: Doak
@Georgelofi: Fighting a losing battle. It's OK to be wrong. Not at all Doak, it's ok if some can't see the forest for the trees. Direct is the best transparency possible, runnin obviously has problems coming out of his source doing this, if he has odd noises this way. They sound like they could be faulty dac glitches or dc offset pops from the buffers, whatever it is, it's not right to make noises like this, and a capacitor coupled preamp is hiding it for him, by not letting it through, but it still should not be there in the first place. It could be a problem with his own Oppo, or that model was not sorted properly in it's design, as a normal amps input impedance + interconnects will not load it any better or worse than a preamp with the same interconnects will. Cheers George |
From just a couple of reviews of the Oppo going direct into poweramps and using it's own volume control, instead of having a preamp in the system
Excerpts from Hometheater
"Using the BDP-105 as a fully-functioning preamp by disconnecting my reference Parasound Halo JC2BP from the chain, I still got the same level of detail and precision as I repeated my battery of tests. In fact, there was an even greater sense of transparency and openness to the sound. Using the digital volume "knob" via the Oppo remote control was absolutely painless."
Excerpts from TNT Audio
"Things get really interesting when we dispose of the Django preamp altogether and simply plug the OPPO straight into my Unity Audio Rock active speakers. Now the sound really came alive, with even more drive and power than through the Django. Used like this, especially through the balanced connections, the sound is truly wonderful and probably the best digital replay I've had in my system. Going back to the Django, now sounds a little bit blurry, slightly constrained and somewhat less interesting."
As I said before, it's horses for courses. If you have a system that needs no tonal/colouration changes, then going direct will be the most transparent/dynamic way.
Cheers George |
05-11-14: Kr4
The "official" word has been that none of the 10X series are recommended for use as a preamp although Oppo recognizes that many will want to do it. I find this odd, but maybe it's for other reasons than sound, I will find out. Kr4 can you post a link where it "officially" says this, Thank's. He said, she said, they said, all MAY have ulterior motives for saying this. But Ohm's and Kirchoff's Laws do not lie, and the fact is, the Oppo's are even better able to drive the inputs of poweramps than many active (especially tube) preamps can. Cheers George |
I don't know which Oppo you have, but direct to the poweramp/s will be the most transparent/dynamic sound you will get, if the Oppo you have has it's analogue volume control before it's output buffer. Or if it has a digital domain volume control then you should use it within the top third of it's full output as not to chance "bit stripping"
If you don't like this uncoloured sound then an active preamp may give the colouration that suits you, but that's going to be a bit of a hit and miss merry go round to find a preamp that suits what your colouration preference is.
Cheers George |
06-01-14: Ben_campbell
But going direct from the Oppo into the direct option on the Osiris even with attenuators you can not even get close to 75-so possibly that has had an impact on the noticeably inferior sound I hear. Hi Ben, what I was responding too mainly was more to the quote you made above. That you couldn't get close to 75% of full output, even with (I take it, plug in attenuators such as the "Rothwell" ones) which can sometimes give bad impedance matching between source and amps, and under this 75% of full volume "bit stripping" can become an issue with many digital domain VC's. Cheers George |
If you have any technical knowledge at all Running, you would know that a limited lf frequency of 5hz is only done by having capacitors coupling, in the signal path or in the feedback network of an active preamp.
And you are in a state of confusion as far as accusing me of promoting my Lightspeed product I have not done so at all in this thread, or slagging other products, all I've stated is that direct from the source is the most transparent way of transferring the source signal to the poweramp if all impedance are correct and voltage output is high enough, and in this case the Oppo has all the factors covered.
If clicks and pops are heard it's not the fault of directly driving to the poweramp, or in the far fetched notion of static build up in the same interconnects as when used with a preamp, but the noise trouble imitates from the source itself, and that the dc coupling of going direct is letting it be heard.
Cheers George |
No assumptions Runnin, no need to get defensive any tech will tell you, just look at the factory specs on your P7, the FR (frequency response) is curtailed at at 5hz!! this means it's capacitor coupled within it's circuit, for if it was not capacitor coupled the specs would show DC -100khz.
Cheers George |
If you looked 7 post up I don't have to phone them, I got the answer for you already from the head of technical at Oppo above.
Oppo's email to me, the reason is because of "bit striping" at volumes below 80, that's why it's not recommended, not because it makes noises when it's played direct to poweramps.
Any tech will tell you that noises such as you explained you are getting are not conducive to a cdp that's in healthy condition.
The only reason your Parasound P7 pre is not passing it through is because it's a capacitor coupled preamp, and capacitors block dc spikes.
As I said if you were to use a dc coupled preamp such as Pass Labs, Krell ect, you will find the noises are back again, just like they are when you go direct to the poweramp.
Cheers George |
Like I said in the post above about yours Runnin, there is a problem with your Oppo they/it should not do this, it is a design fault or component acting up, adding a preamp that has no doubt some coupling capacitor/s in the signal path is stopping any of these noises from getting through. As the specs of your preamp show 5hz not DC to 100khz. (which means it's not direct coupled)
If you were to put a direct coupled (DC-100khz) preamp in it will no doubt then pass these noises through again.
The noises should not be there to start with, as these type of noise can saturate active components within the preamp and or even the poweramp if let through.
As for your preference for the sound with the preamp in, I take your point that you prefer the colourations that your preamp adds to your system, and that going direct without these colourations is not pleasing to you.
The so called "perfect preamp" that sounds like "straight wire with gain" will most likly not meet your expectations either, just as going direct doesn't.
Cheers George |
You have another problem Runnin if as it should not happen.
A reply email I recieved from the the head of technical department of Oppo USA regarding direct connection to poweramps.
"The BDP-103 players will lose bits if you lower the audio below 80.
The BDP-105 players will not lose resolution since they are 32-bit DACs. So they are the ideal solution if you want to go direct to an amplifier.
Best Regards,
Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119"
Cheers George |
If the output impedance of the Oppo is low enough to drive the input of the poweramp (which it is, as all Oppos I know are less than 200ohms output impedance even less than 100ohms).
If the voltage output of the Oppo is high enough, to give more than loud enough volume in the system. (which it should have no problem in doing)
Then this constitutes a match, with the lowest order of colouration and distortions you can have of controlling the volume within a system.
If adding preamp into the system sounds better to the user, then it's the colourations/distortions of the preamp the user prefers sound of, this maybe making up for other tonal deficiencies somewhere else within his system.
Cheers George |
