Open Baffle Experience

That is not true. Open baffle designs are WRONG. They emit sound that is out of phase out the back end. If you can show me an open baffle design that can emit sound IN PHASE not OUT OF PHASE from the back end then I will happily throw my box speakers away and we can all enjoy perfect sound with no cabinet resonances. I dare you

Out of phase compared to what?
It is more like they are focussed way back at infinity.

Just like back in your other post about about time domain, I am wondering what measurements would tell us whether these baffle speakers are more or less right than a box speaker??

 

Out of phase compared to what? It is more like they are focussed way back at infinity.

The front and back waves are not in time with each other. Show me an open baffle that has both back and front in time.

It’s the same speaker cone… it is absolutely in time.
It cannot be “not in time” unless the cone has thickness and is somehow an accordion.

It is OK to have a subjective opinion, but an objective opinion should be based in reality and fact.

 

I am wondering what measurements would tell us whether these speaker are more or less right than a box speaker??

the frequency response is a mess.

OK, use an EQ… then the FR is perfect.

You had the post about time domain, and a IB is about as good as it gets in transcient response.

bpoletti 

The sound coming from the back of the open baffle speakers IS out of phase with the front, 

I dont need you to tell me that. You need to convince @holmz 

Hes the one disputing that not me

@kenjit I need no convincing, his understanding seems on point.

The OB may be out of polarity, but who cares in the upper freq ranges?
You used the term “not in time”.

 

The front and back waves are not in time with each other. Show me an open baffle that has both back and front in time.

That may make the impulse response off of the wall negative, whereas it would hav been positive. It should show up there, but is that a problem?

Many speakers have drives that are out of polarity with each other, and people like them… so how is OB different in the reflected back wave?

The OB may be out of polarity, but who cares in the upper freq ranges?
You used the term “not in time”.

A lot of folks do care. Magico, Kef, B&W, Wilson Audio, Focal, Genelec, Revel.

Ok @kenjit you seem hung up on the back wave being opposite polarity from the front wave. Then in the other time domain thread you mentioned how all speakers were not right.

is it more important that:

1. The back wave be in the proper polarity with the front wave?
2. Or… that the front wave is in the proper polarity with the signal?
3. Or… does none of it matter?
4. Or… does all of it matter?

 

Magico - See figure 7:

 

Kef see the step function figure:
 

 

B&W:

 

Wilson Sasha (see figure 8):
 

 

Focal (see figure 5):

 

Genelec:

 

 

Revel - See figure 7:

 

 

@erik_squires I attracted a ban on another form overnight.
I think it was for a personal insulting against the company Topping.
Which I suppose makes sense as companies and ships and airplanes, identify as “people” according to the law.

And there is no honest way to comment on the Scooby-Doo without attracting a ban.

And I cannot send a MSG on AG, as I get an endless “Q&A” to identify as a person with hot air balloons… crosswalks and traffic lights.

 

Let;s just say it is baffleing 

kenjit Its apparent that there is something you don't understand.

It has to do with the human ear/brain system.

When the ear hears a sound, a copy of the sound is made and the ear/brain system looks for other examples in near-time. If it finds an example that is delayed by about 10 mS or so, it can use that for echo-location.

That sounds a bit like a Helmholz radiator?

 

Let’s see here — on the dipole side we have Nola, Vandersteen, Spatial, Magnepan, Martin Logan, SoundLabs, etc, and on the other side we have…kenjit.  Hmmm.  I for one would love to see kenjit debate the great minds behind all these very successful speaker designs.  That’d be a real hoot.

I doubt it would be a hoot.

A debate is not just about being impassioned about the topic.
One actually needs to provide some compelling argument.

 

Yes I do believe that the back wave needs to be in correct polarity as front. As you know, aboslute polarity is inaudible but with an open baffle, you have both waves occuring simultaneously. It is difficult to avoid the consequent cancellations unless you physically separate the two waves. That is the whole point of having a box

You kinda cannot have it both ways… where you:

1. Argue that the polarity out the front is inaudible and doesn’t matter.
2. Argue that the polarity out of the back is suddenly of utmost importance… and more important that the polarity out of the front.

I mean you can argue that, it is just hard to abide it as a rational argument that is anything more than “Like your opinion dude.”

Let’s see here — on the dipole side we have Nola, Vandersteen, Spatial, Magnepan, Martin Logan, SoundLabs, etc, and on the other side we have…kenjit.  Hmmm.  I for one would love to see kenjit debate the great minds behind all these very successful speaker designs.  That’d be a real hoot.

You can't be serious. 99% of high end speaker designs are NOT open baffle they are boxes. They are all on my side. I have already named many of them. B&W, KEF, FOCAL, DYNAUDIO, MAGICO, WILSON

Back to our scheduled programming…

 

 

It is really sad to see more and more dogmatists spoiling this forum, which I thought was meant to create an easy way to exchange our experiences: EXPERIENCES, not theoretical arguments.

It is not that sad…
There is kind of room for both theory and experience.

(And I am only a dogmatist about woofers.)

 

In case of the open baffle loudspeakers and the voiced criticism that the back-aiming sound wave is out of phase (probably correct) one concludes that because of this, they are "wrong". This sounds almost like evangelical argumentation.

“Reversed polarity” is probably better than “out of phase.”

In any case a box speaker have very little back wave, and if it has a port there is not much back wave except near the post freq.

If having a back wave with the opposite polarity is bad, then a dipole should be really bad, because the back wave is many dB higher than anything sneaking around a closed box.

But, that’s his specialty and sole reason for being.  My guess is he isn’t allowed to leave his padded room enough to get out and actually listen to anything.  Also notice he never discloses what’s in his system.  Hmmm

He may have more than one system?