On one leg or two legs?


If you install two dedication circuits, would you install both breakers on the same leg or one on each? and why?
houstonreef

Showing 7 responses by blindjim

if two lines are in use... or ever how many... and all are dedicated to the system...

Use the same phase.

Using differring phases (sides of the breaker box) intorduces possible issues, with one right off being a possible problem.

Each phase in that box is going to out of phase from one another by at least 90 degrees. That's more important than a possible shortfall in voltage variances.

The nearly same thing applies to running a separate ground... as the difference in potential between the two grounds being employed can be an adverse effect... if only by a few volts... and then there's the issue of creating a possible ground loop too.

the issue rests with the neutral or common (white) leg of the ckt. That sole item is constant regardless what you use or how you employ dedicated lines unless you run an entirely separate service.

These above listed considerations can range from insignificant to quite detrimental and most audible artifacts.

The very best scenario past a new service is the above post on employing transformer isolated dedicated lines.

Due to the common wire being constant throughout however, power conditioning or filtering might prove out as a more suitable solution for you... if none is/are in place presently.

I have four dedicated lines. I have four power filters as well. All my ded lines are on the lighting phase, which works for me best, as I've no one here but myself. I felt it better than to place them onto the appliance side and avoid the fridge, hot water heaters, washer dryer etc.

Ded lines are a plus. They may or may not be the entire answer.

Good luck.
EG., see my post above for starters.

Are or is this cable using twisted pairs?? In essence, did you simply run one cables then to use as a dedicated line for such a circuit? Did you keep the positive (hots) still twisted together? Same for the Neutral and ground, were they twisted together?

You should have put another neutral in there as you went with using two different phases. Albeit, things should work anyhow.

I’ve seen worse BTW.

If so the buzzing issue you experience without the use of the conditioner is due to some ground loop issue somewhere in the house. Plain and simple.

Keeping the pairs twisted together at first made me think you’ve added some inductance along the way too that would not ordinarily be there usually. But that’s not the deal.

As you ran two twisted pairs of #10 AWG stranded the wire alone should stand up to 30 A. Solid #10 = 25A max. Stranded #12 = 25A., and solid #12 = 20A max. the thinking behind why use the appropriate gauge wire is this, heat as well is a factor which increases current. An appropriately sized conductor will transmit and conduct that heat energy sooner than will larger gauge conductors.

…and that’s what we are trying to prevent here with proper ckt applications… fire, not necessarily saving the causer of the overload, but the rest of the array and perhaps lives.

Had you ran two runs of grounds and commons, I think it would have been more to code and better overall… at least in my area, that’s code.

In effect you have ONE dedicated line attached to two breakers for all intents and purposes, and again, it should work… but it’s the ‘cheapie/temp’ way to do things… and it pays to do electrical things properly.

To find the issue, turn off everything BUT the breaker controlling the thing that’s buzzing. Turn on the thing. See if it still buzzes.

If so it’s a ground loop… and likely comes from either your Pay TV svc. Or your phone svc.

If it doesn’t buzz while it’s the only energized thing in the house, begin flipping on breakers on that phase, one at a time… continue to the opposite phase, until you find the ckt to which the ground can be attributed.

Worse case scenario would be the ground issue is an accumulation of household items being used in which case l3eaving on the amp, and energizing more breakers/circuits will increase the level of the hum/buzz as you go along.

The choices once the item causing the issue is found are:

Call an electrician.

Disconnect things from the ckt which is causing the GL until you get to the actual culprit and never use that again. Cell phone charger, UPS for the PC, rheostat (lighting dimmer) , etc. or get a better one.

If the buzz is there with everything else off, it is most likely the cable TV or phone… to make sure, disconnect the coax feeding the Sat/cable box and see if you still have the buzz/hum.

In that case a transformer can be put inline with the coax feeding the cable box. Sometimes right at the box, or outside the house where the coax run begins.

If it’s the phone install another ground rod explicitly for the phone. I won’t guarantee this move, but I’ve seen it work. Disconnect the orig ground ckt, and drop the new rod several feet away from the orig one. 10 ft. should do.

Lift the ground from the receptacle the amp is plugged into. Either by a cheater plug (both hot & common but no ground pin), or by removing it from inside the outlet itself.

If you chose to put breakers one on each phase because that was the only available unused slots. There is a work around for that as well.

They are called Wafer breakers. Half the size of standard breakers so that two fit into the same space as ONE regular breaker. They come in various ampere & voltage sizes too. Thus allowing you to put both ded lines onto one phase, which was recommended.

I must also say here at this point, I was an electrician in my past. Mainly industrial and commercial efforts… some residential now and then on the side. I gotta say here you really should contact a card carrying sparky for this event, but if you feel compelled to proceed, it is surely at your own risk.

Not trying to scare ya… I’M just CMA.

Good luck. Hope that helps.
The length of dedicated ckts, one to the other, is superfluous. Arbitrary. Only really extensive runs of #12 romex (which is likely what will be used, unless otherwise specified) need to be addressed by increasing the wire gauge a step up.

This is not a common circumstance however. Even huge homes, or multi story homes, have additional sub fed panels these days, thus reducing the lengths of runs required. And thereby keeping the gauge of wire accordingly employed.

Commercial & industrial applications can vary some here, but residential installations seldom if ever need to address voltage drop issues by up scaling the wire type being used.

You can request the use of shielded cabling to further remove the ckt from ancillary or spurious artifacts… adjacent EMF, IHF, IM, etc. Again, I think this is overkill. If the runs do encompass higher current carrying supply lines, like HVAC, then it would be a more valid consideration… or if you simply wish to throw more $$$ at this… then by all means feel free.

I’d say save your money for conditioning, or other things.
Conductor sizes, load requirements, and max length specs can be found here:

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
RE amp load
With stranded wire the jacketing or insulator, can allow for an increase in current carrying, over that of solid wire of the same guage. For ex. a #14 stranded THHN will carry the same as a #12 solid romex.

RE Python VX vs. Taipan helix A.
Well then, i suppose wire gauge isn't the end all be all in cabling.... huh?

A long time ago you could buy brand new a Camaro or a Mustang, outfitted about the same... 350cid in the Chevy and a 351 cid in the 'stang.

Both are V8's.... both felt differently too.

If the Taipan HA & the Python VX were the same cable they would sound the same. They don't. Elsewise only one of the cables would have been made, huh?

The VX actually supplies front end & spinning gear whose current draws are far less than the draw the Taipans see routinely.

One would think the larger gauge cable needed to be on the amps, not the front end. Right Well audio isn't always intuitive.

Sometimes, it's all about the infulence, or what the item brings to the table in it's inherent characteristics... not it's specs.

Let's not forget too, them magical beans, er, beads, in the VX.

I have moved them all around in all of my systems, and they work elsewhere. I just feel they work best for me in those spots & reasons, I mentioned. Hope that makes sense.

NEC Codes might have been updated in the past few decades, but back in the 70s and 80s, the specs i noted here were acceptable.... passing inspection everytime. I've never been red tagged following an inspection... well, when I was a practicing sparky. That career stopped in '83 adn another began thereafter.

BTW... local codes can and do superceed NEC codes, routinely.