Ok this will be a good thread.

I do not draw a distinction between the most important component and the component that makes the most impact on system sound. To me they are one in the same.

KF

Speakers. They ultimately determine the limits and boundaries of what you hear.

KF

Well put Bwhite.

KF

For all those people who think you start with a superior source.... I have one question.

How do you know you have a great source if you are running it through a jambox?

Crappy electronics will screw with the sources signal to such a degree that you have no real way of knowing what that source sounds like. Add crappy speakers on top of that, and it just emphasizes how bad the electronis are even more.

One may argue.... well you DEMO sources at an audio store first on good systems to hear what they sound like. This could be ideal... and this may even be a so-so route to go. BUT WHAT ARE YOU TO DO IF THEIR ARE NO GOOD AUDIO STORES IN YOUR AREA? And you are making the purchase online. How do you know if you have a good source when you get it or if it is crap (if all you have is a rack system to run it through)?

I will be the first to admit that the source's signal is ultimately what you want to hear from a musical system. But to be able to hear how good your source is, is going to take good speakers matched well to a good amp matched well to a good preamp matched to a good source.

Does anyone see how much trouble one can get into starting with the source of a system and moving component by component downstream from the source?

You start with source X. You think it is a good source.... But you really have no clue because you have been running it through your rack system which you are trying to replace.

You buy preamp Y to hook into your preamp ins because you read somewhere that this preamp was the best value for the $$$ and you got a great deal on it. Unfortunately this preamp does not have as much gain as your preamp in your rack system because you cannot get the kind of volume you want. You also bought preamp Y because your source has a high output and preamp Y is passive. The sound of your system improves a little, but do to lack of volume it is difficult to tell how it sounds.

You buy amp Z because you have read that it is an ideal match for preamp Y. It is very sensitive and very powerful and able to drive almost any home speaker in the world. You hook amp Z up to your rack speakers and all of a sudden your system sound is totally transformed. Yeah it is a lot cleaner... but you hear ever freakin fault that your speakers have. They appear to resonate (in the bass) when you play certain music and their trebble is giving your ear fits...

Now you have heard that you really must hear speakers first before you buy them.... So you make a trip to the Big City to visit all of the audio stores in town to select speakers. You walk into an audio store which carries many of the brands you are interested in (because you have done your homework and read every Stereophile and TAS issue for the last 10 years). The first pair of speaker you listen to totally 100% blow your mind. They are of the horn variety and are about 106db efficient. You want them and the sales guy asks what are your electronics? Being very helpful, the Salesman indicates your system would have problems with these hors speakers. He says that you have way too much gain and your amp was just way too sensative. Darn! Ok, so you listen to another spair of speakers this time planer speakers.... and whoa! These speakers sound really freakin good and only 84db or so sensative. However the salesman points out that although your amp is seemingly very powerful, you just would not have enough gain for these speakers with the preamp and the size of room you have you have. This is very bad because you like to listen to music lound... This day of speaker shopping is not going as you had planned. Next you listen to a box speaker, and you are impressed by the sound. Actually it sounds freakin amazing. And after to listening to several more speakers, you come back to these... One thing you forget to ask is what sort of electronics are driving them. It is tubes, but you have no idea about the manufacturer of the electroncs.

You get the speakers home... Hook them up to your system eagerly... AND the speakers do not sound 1/10th as good as they sounded in the store you went to. HOWEVER, your system does sound a lot better than your rack system and it took you about 2 YEARS FROM GETTING YOUR GREAT SOUNCE TO GET TO THIS POINT.

Basically, you are stuck speakers that you thought were pretty good at the store (with other speakers at the store sounding better to you). You have an amp that really does not match the speakers you got well. The amp can theoretically drive the speakers, but the speakers would be better suited for a little more refined amp than you have. YOu have a preamp that kinda matches your amp. And you have a source which you think is good.

Lets run this scenario the RIGHT way.

You want to upgrade your rack system and you have been told to start with speakers. You plan a big trip into the city to buy speakers. The speakers you really love are horns. You buy the horns and get them home. You hook them up, and they sound so-so (maybe even not-so-good). You have gain issues, but at least you can listen to music (although only at loud volumes). BUT YOU KNOW YOU CAN GET THESE HORN SPEAKERS TO SOUND AMAZING BECAUSE YOU HAVE HEARD THEM SOUND AMAZING BEFORE.

Several months later you take the plunge and buy 8wpc SET monoblocks. All of a sudded sound quality goes up 100 fold in your system. Your gain problem is resolved due to the low sensativity of the SET amps. all I can say is you are in HEAVEN with the sound. It still is not as good as the audio store sound, but it has been so long since you have listened to that sound, you really could not care less.

Six month later you buy a nice tube preamp that has been noted with going well with the 8wpc SET amps you have. Placing the preamp in your system, you CANNOT believe the differences preamplification makes in a system. Your mind is boggled, and the sound you are getting seems heavenly. All gain problems are gone, and you are in a high state of audio happiness.

Many months pass, and digital technology has progressed A LOT. Great digitital sound can be had for less than $3k, and you are ready to finally get a great source. You spend $3k on a CD player that has gotten all the rave reviews (and has an output that would go with your other components). YOu get the CDP and you are utterly blown away. It IS the final piece of the puzzle in your quest for sonic Nirvana!

Right up until a good friend of yours brings over some aftermarket ICs, PCs, and SCs............

Anyway, I will be the first to admit that it takes a great source to make a great system; however, if you want to enjoy your system as you are building it (the most), and if you want a well matched system after you have built it, ONE MUST SELECT THE SPEAKER THEY WANT FIRST.

And this is why SPEAKERS are more important than sources.

Nuff said.

KF

My horse has probably long been dead....

I will wholeheartedly agree that EVERY item in the chain from the alternating current to the speakers is very important in the sonics of any given music system. In some ways, ALL OF THE COMPONENTS ARE EQUAL. They are all equal in the sense if you are missing any one area of component, you get NO sound at all. No power cords, no sound... No source, no sound... No preamplification, no sound (or you get just BLASTING sound.... and I consider CDP's with volume controls as HAVING preamplification built into them).

So in a sense at the MINIMUM extreme, all of these components are equal.

Now when dealing with World Class music systems, I would argue that all of the components are also equal at this MAXIMUM extreme. In these systems you hear every weak link. This may sound like Voodoo, but in World Class Music systems, AC, Power Cords, ICs, Speaker cables make HUGE differences. Same with preamps, amps, and sources. Having a weak link in a world class musical system can detroy the sound compared what it would sound like without the weak link. If you do not think I can get a world class source to dramatically change in sound quality with the change of a power cord, you have not done enough experimentation with power cords in a world class system with a world class digital source. You have to hear the effect to beleive it.

So in a sense, at the MAXIMUM extreme of hi-end components all of the components in a musical system are equal.

What we are dealing with is somewhere between the MINIMUM extreme and MAXIMUM extreme. In this area we are dealing with degrees of GREY exist.

In my last post, I was dealing with the most apparent example that could show that speakers are what one should build a system around. One does not build a system around a source per se... because most sources will at least match most amps and speakers. Most of the trouble with sources is matching them with the right preamp.

In any given system, a source or speakers or whateve can be one of the most critical components for the high sound quality. This is what most of us have... pretty good systems, and we are not starting from scratch. So in our systems it is really a judgement call as to what component is most important or plays the biggest role.

On a side note, I firmly beleive that PREAMPLIFICATION determines much of a systems end sonic signature. Does this mean I think the preamp is most important? NO. But I would argue that most systems have their sound screwed up by their preamplification. Too many folks do not really see the value of having a world class preamp. In a lot of ways the preamp is MORE important than the source. Why? Because the preamp controls what signal ultimately gets to your speakers. Combine a world class source with a crappy preamp and you will get crappy sound. Combine an average source with a world class preamp, and you will get much better sound than combineing a world class source with a crappy preamp.

Anyway, because Sources are not nearly as system dependant as speakers or amps or preamps, I cannot rate them as being the most important part in a system.

However, anyone who says that sources impact a system sonically more than any other component (thus are more important), have not done much experiementation with preamplification. Because with a low quality preamp ANY SOURCE is going to sound bad (no matter what AMP or Speakers you have).

I think I have buried my horse.

KF