@mapman - Yup, that’s just it: Before my system soiled the bed last September, I really thought it could not get much better than it was, even if it wasn’t perfect (at least not without spending major cabbage). And yet, here I am enjoying not a minor or incremental improvement from a $900 upgrade to my amp, but a major, transformative improvement. Very cool. |
@mapman - I have owned and liked an Odyssey Audio Stratos HT3 (with cap upgrade) - a three channel amp for the front channels of my combo HT/2-channel system since 2006.
Last September, the amp suffered a capacitor failure. So I sent (all 64 lbs. of) it in for repair and possible upgrade to Odyssey. For $900, I had the left & right chanels upgraded to full Kismet status, Odyssey's top line of amps. Sadly, UPS damaged the amp on the way back. Once that was fixed, I had issues getting my Vandersteen 2Wq subs with M5-HP crossovers to work together with the amp, which has a higher input impedance than the original Stratos. Apparently, an Audiogoner sold me a pair of the M5-HP crossovers which were custom made (without bothering to tell me this), and so they require different settings than do the standard M5-HPs. I have been working with both Vandersteen (Richard and Ray in the service department) and John Rutan of Audio Connection in Verona, NJ, to sort it all out, make sure the M5-HPs are working properly and properly set them for use in my system. They are on the way back from Hanford now. With a bit of luck, everything will be right as rain by the first weekend in June. |
@blin116 - My room was on the cusp of requiring the 3000s, but the room volume for the 2000s overlaps with the room volume for the 3000s. I went with the 2000s, primarily for the cost savings. As you can read in this thread, this was nine years ago, and I am still quite thrilled with them. So, I would think the 1000s will work for you if that’s what Ohm is telling you. That said, while the x000 series has really similar sonics up and down the line, the larger models will offer deeper bass extention and somewhat better dynamic capabilities. Now, I also use a pair of subwoofers with my 2000s. Is it overkill? It depends. I am a bit of a bass freak (well, ok, not "a bit of" - I am a full-on, for life, unrepentant bass addict), so for me, the subs would have been kept even if I had sprung for the 3000s. So, of course, if you ask me, I would take the money you save on the 1000s and buy one, or better, two, good (I stress, GOOD) subwoofers. But I would surely wait for your 1000s to fully break in first. You may not feel the need for any extra oomph or extension in the bass.
And, if you really regret getting the 1000s instead of the 2000s, you can always return the 1000s and get the 2000s (although the shipping will get expensive).
Separately, you should think about deadening the wall behind your couch. Sitting against the back wall is never ideal, acoustically. Most Ohm users agree that "live-end, dead-end" works well. IOW, the front wall should be live, acoustically, while the back wall should be dead (or dead-er). I tried covering up my 60" plasma screen with a quilt, and ended up leaving it uncovered - the sound was better that way. These speakers are different than dynamic-drivers-in-a-box speakers, and respond better to different room treatments and positioning than those speakers. Keep that in mind as you break them in. And, please, allow them to break in. The changes are quite dramatic, IME.
I am powering my 2000s with 150 watts per side as well (although the subwoofers have their own amps, so the main amp is rolled off, first order, below 80Hz), and it is generally plenty of power. I did try out a pair 500 watt monoblocks with them at one point. They were marginally better, but not so much so. I stuck with the 150 watt per channel amp I had. But I may move up to a higher power amp someday. I guess the point is that these speakers will work with lower powered amps, and still sound really good. But, they will respond really well to any improvements you make upstream - whether that is better power, better source gear, even better wires. I am still amazed at how the Ohms allow me to clearly hear differences in upstream cables and gear.
In addition to the helpful folks at Ohm, we on this thread will be happy to help you if you have any other questions. |
@blin116 - I defer to mapman on the efficiency issue. The way I see it is this: The Ohm Walsh speakers represent such a good value, that if you find you must upgrade elsewhere, such as your amp, it is well worth it, as these speakers will let you hear what you spent the money on. If your integrated has pre-outs, you can try borrowing a higher powered amp to see if you like the results. But you may not feel this is necessary.
My thoughts are that John Strohbeen does not want to present Ohm speakers as tweaky or demanding of a lot power or expensive electronics. And, to a degree, he is correct. As my initial review noted, the 2000s sounded quite good on an older Onkyo surround receiver rated at 80 watts per channel without my subwoofers. And yes, you can plunk them down in your room, play a little bit with toe-in, and off you go with good sound. But, and it is a big but, none of this means the Ohm Walsh series won't respond well to better electronics, tweaks, room treatments, etc. They will, and in spades. The good news is they are not tweaky in the sense that they won't sound good at all unless you get fancy footers, expensive gear, high-priced cables, or extensive room treatments. So one can do as much or as little as they like, and then just enjoy. |
@mlsstl - Provided you and the folks at Ohm agree that the 1000 is the right Walsh speaker for your space, I expect you’ll be pleased. Just a few points: The standard current Walsh line are not full omnis like the old F’s were. They attenuate output somewhat in the rear to facilitate placement near the front wall. They can be ordered without this attenuation if desired (and I often wonder what my 2000s would sound like without this attenuation). Second, you must allow plenty of break-in time. The speakers will go through many tonal shifts as they break in, and full break in can take months. Thirdly, the current Walsh line use a conventional dome tweeter, unlike the F's, which were full-range, true omnis. This means adjusting the toe-in, which works backwards from conventional dynamic speakers, is important. Toeing in these Ohms will attenuate the treble output at the listening seat, and toeing them out will accentuate it. Lastly, I think the 1000s will have much of, if not all of, the magic of your F’s. They certainly have a wide sweet spot. Please keep us posted. |
@djones51:. although I don’t use it in stereo, my 2 channel system is integrated into my home theater system. In multichannel listening, I use a Pioneer receiver with MCACC. I have not had any issues with this and my Ohms. Except for the subs and the back surround speakers, my surround system is all Ohm Walsh, 2000, a Walsh centr and MWT surrounds. Works great.
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@mslstl:. Glad to hear you are enjoying your 1000s. I doubt they are anywhere near broken in yet. Be aware that things may get worse before getting even better. I find that poor recordings are quite listenable on my 2000s, even if they are exposed as the lousy recordings they are. You may wish to experiment with cables, but only after the 1000s are fully broken in, in a few months. Those speakers will respond to every change you make upstream, and you will know quickly if a new component or wire is an improvement or not.
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@mlsstl Please tell me your TV is on a stand a ways in front of the wall behind it. If it is wall mounted, I will not be able to have any peace of mind until I try what you did, even though I don't have any stridency issues. Thanks for the update, dammit! 😉
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@mlsstl - Thanks. My TV is a heavy plasma mounted to the wall. I don't think there is much room for sound to bounce around behind it. |
Ok, I just had to post this... I am finally able to digitize vinyl at 96/24 using my Sweetvinyl SugarCube SC-2 and play it back from my server. I am listening to Sting's LP "Nothing Like the Sun" that I digitized from a pretty clean double LP, and I am having a "Holy-Mother-of-Crap" moment, where everything is just about perfect. Clean, effortless, extended, all the buzz-words. Wow! The highs, especially, are so much cleaner and smoother than with my Red Book digitized files using my Marantz CD recorder. Considering my system costs a fraction of what many people here have spent on their rigs, it is really something! I love music, and I love this hobby! John Strohbeen, if you're reading this, I will say it again... your speakers should be fed with really good electronics and accessories. Nothing short of amazing!!
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@jim_hip - IME, the main criteria Ohm uses to determine which center channel you need is distance from that center channel speaker. In my case, I was told by John Strobeen that since I sit about 10 feet from the center, that the smallest model would be just fine. I followed that advice and have been pleased with my center for around 8 years. As for the repair vs. upgrade question, you should price both options out. The 3000 cans will have slightly better performance all around, and will be more durable. But the difference in sound quality is not huge. I would try to speak with John Strobeen himself to discuss. He won't steer you wrong.
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@bstatmeister... For digitizing vinyl, I strongly recommend that you try the Sugarcube SC-2 by Sweetvinyl. I am using it with excellent results. |
@bstatmeister... Yes the SC-2 is spendy. I got mine via Indiegogo as a beta unit for half the price. I use the KAB-1 record cleaner, similar to the RD V except you connect your own cannisters vacuum. When I bought it, about 14 years ago, there was nothing as cost effective as the Record Doctor V. If I were buying a record cleaner today, I would absolutely get the Record Doctor V. Good luck. |
I switched (ha!) to a Class D amp a few months ago. 10k input impedance and 500 watts per channel. Still breaking it in. I will have more to say about it with my 2000s, but for now, I concur with everything mapman says about high power class D amps and Ohms. |
@fyusmal....Although I would be pleased to have you over for demo of my 2000s, I live in New Jersey, so you would have to alter your travel plans. I am very close to Newark Liberty Airport, about 10 minutes away.
I am totally with you on the music limitations thing. Some speakers are tuned to work best with classical, or acoustic jazz, or even any well recorded music. The beauty of my Ohms is that, while they don’t turn a pig’s ear into a silk purse, you get the feeling that you at least understand why the engineers on a poor recording made the choices they did. For example, they really wanted the guitar to dominate, and the drums were sacrificed to emphasize the guitar. But I listen to a very wide variety of genres, and I enjoy them all on the Ohms.
A true story: An audiophile friend with nearly $200,000 invested in his rig had speakers that were custom made to his specifications, complete with huge outboard crossovers, & powered subs.
This audiophile is a hardcore classical music fan and choir members. On his classical and opera recordings, his system is amazing. On one visit I asked him to indulge me and let me play a great, but poorly recorded CD of psychobilly by The Reverend Horton Heat on his system. It was AWFUL. Completely unlistenable. On my Ohms, my feet are tapping, and my head is bobbin’, and my hand is slapping a big imaginary standup bass.
I have heard some great panel speakers, costing $25,000 or more, but none I would trade my modest Ohm 2000s for. |
@blin116... Interesting. I was ready to order an amp from Class D Audio when I was offered a great deal on another class D amp from a guy I know that builds them. Do you feel the SDS-470C is a good match for the Ohms? That amp seems to offer a lot of bang for the buck. |
@snapsc: First, your tweeter question. Where the resister on the tweeter (there is no crossover in the literal sense) kicks in is not divulged by Ohm, and is a matter of some debate. On the old Ohm web site, there was a page that indicated the tweeter only handled 7kHz and up, but others have tried measuring the main drivers and found them rolling off above about 2-3kHz.
As for the quality of the tweeters, Guttenberg has a point. I would say they are adequate. They are not harsh, peak-y or otherwise flawed. Do they have that hard to describe sense of fine detail and filigree one hears on the best speakers? Generally not, although with some really god recordings, they can have that treble magic. I have noticed that the treble on 96/24 needle drops I make do sound subtly but clearly better - cleaner, more refined - than Red Book standard needle drops I make.
Do I wish the tweeter was more refined? Perhaps, although the level of treble refinement did improve when I recently switched my amp. I doubt this could be done without raising prices, though.
Second: If you go with a model not suggested for your room size, you may overdrive them, and possibly damage them. My room size meant I could go with either the 2000s or 3000s. I went with the 2000s, as I already had a good pair of subs (Vandersteen 2Wq), and wished to continue using them. In my room, this combo has worked exceedingly well. I get the huge, tight bass I crave, with the wonderful soundstage and timbre of the Ohms. If you can manage it, and if you’re as much of a bass freak as I am, consider both the appropriate-sized model and a pair of decent subwoofers. I doubt you will be disappointed. 10 years this fall since I got them, and I have no interest in upgrading, at all. |
@snapsc and @mapman
I know the US distributor for German Physiks and have heard 2 of their models in his showroom. I generally agree with mapman, but I preferred the highs on the GP speakers... A little sweeter. Also, they are true omnis with no rear attenuation. If I win the lottery, I might try to get a home audition. But that’s not likely.
Did some listening tonight. Tori Amos cover of Thank You (Led Zeppelin) was incredible. The left hand on the piano had such weight. Her voice was perfectly centered. And, no disrespect to Guttenberg, but I enjoyed pinpoint imaging on this and other tracks tonight. Loving my 2000s! |
FWIW, my micro center is a great match for my 2000s.
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