Nolo,
MWTs would make excellent surrounds I think.
For surround sound, be sure to go over the options with JS. Though we don't talk about them much here, there are large/small/short/tall/wall mount Walsh models designed specifically for home theater use I believe.
I believe OHM can also do various tweaks to the basic design for home theater use if desired. |
Nice.
I see they have a link to an ebay store there also with some refurbed box designs like Hs and C2s, which I would love to hear. I almost went down the refurbed H path before I tried the Walsh2 S3s. H's were my favorites back when I used to sell OHMs in the late 70s. in the days of the OHM Fs and prior to the Walsh line (the store I worked i did not carry the Fs so I never got to hear them). |
Foster,
Coincidentally, the speakers I had before my first OHMS in 1978, the OHM Ls, were Lafayette Criterions which I think was made by ESS and had the Heil tweets as well. |
Rebbe,
I seem to recall the Eps had the same kind of tweet back in 1978.
Eps I heard were OK as I recall, a little "recessed" sounding perhaps (no pun intended) but you all already know what my favorites were even then, right? |
"And yes- it seems that Ohm's like a lot of current. I also notice it in the mid-range region. The only word that comes to mind is 'smooth'."
Good point.
In addition to low end impact and "mojo" due to moving more air, higher current also does seem to result in better overall smoothness top to bottom I believe.
Hi Current is like a 20 mph wind rotating a windmill on Earth with denser atmosphere.
Low current is like the same velocity wind rotating the same windmill on Mars with sparse atmosphere.
Regarding impact and authority, the same velocity wind will also knock that hat off your head a lot faster in earth's denser atmosphere. Also big hats (bass) requiring more pressure to move will be affected more. The smaller hats (midrange)are more susceptible as well. The tiny hats (treble) stand no chance. |
BTW, the OHMs have been around for a long time and lots of non-audiphile type people still own them. I bought my first Walsh 2s in a typical, not "high end" audio store in 1982 for ~ $600 retail I believe.
My point is that there are a lot of people out there who could afford and own OHMs that probably never heard or cared to hear them optimally driven by larger, high quality, high current power amps. They sound much more ordinary driven by ordinary or average systems. A lot of audiophiles that have heard the OHMs over the years may have never heard them run optimally, hence the more mixed press that they have received over the years! |
Another amusing way to look at it:
Athletes have their juice and we OHM owners have ours! |
Bondman,
TEch Hifi's big competitor I recall in the NYC metro area was Crazy Eddies. Remember them? |
Marty, that sounds like a fair accounting.
Also there were many one off dealers that were not part of a larger chain.
I sold to a lot of college kids with limited budgets at Tech HiFi. Their choices were often either just refurbs from Tech HiFi or Crazy Eddie. Most else was too expensive for most.
Then I graduated college and got a real job. Those days selling audio gear were fun though. I'd love to do it again someday. |
"Does anyone know if the prices will go up for the next version of the 100? (I hope not.)"
I think I read on the web site that they will as they roll out the revamped drivers.
I also did a stint at a Lafayette store in Pennsylvania in 1978 just prior to Tech HiFi, my first paying corporate job. No CDs yet then. Lafayette, BIC, Garrard and a few other tables though. My first component system was all Lafayette/Criterion. |
I received the email below the other day announcing the new line:
"Hi Folks,
We are back to work and starting to produce our next generation of Ohm Walsh speakers. The sound has made evolutionary improvements; the maintenance-free lifespan has been extended; plus the cabinet styling and finish have substantially improved.
All current Ohm Walsh speakers sound pretty much the same when used in the size room they are designed to be played in. Instead of a Good-Better-Best line-up where you get better sound for more money, we make the best we can for small, medium and large rooms. In this generation, we have tighten up the deep bass, "sweetened" the highs with new super-tweeters an made the voices a bit more intelligible, particularly on dialog.
The pure-foam surrounds and damping materials have limited most vintage Ohm Walsh speakers to a 10-20 year maintenance-free lifespan. In this new generation, we have moved to different materials with much longer lifespans: 40-50 years in some models! Additionally, most models now use cast metal frames for greater stiffness and strength.
The styling has been finalized with a softer, gentler, more graceful look:
1. All will have rounded vertical edges, rounded plinths, and rounded grills.
2. All veneer choices are at no extra cost.
3. Each cabinet gets at least two additional coats of hand-rubbed finish.
4. Photos will be coming in a few weeks when our website is updated.
The recommended room sizes (width x length x height) have been finalized:
* MODEL ROOM SIZE (volume)
* MicroWalsh SE 600-1000 cu.ft
* 1000 800-1600 cu.ft
* 2000 1300-3000 cu.ft
* 3000 2400-5400 cu.ft
* 4000 4500-8500 cu.ft
* 5000 800-8500 cu.ft
The pricing has been finalized:
* MODEL PRICE (per pair)
* MicroWalsh SE $1400
* 1000 2000
* 2000 2800
* 3000 4000
* 4000 5500
* 5000 6500
These prices are for the floor-standing, full range versions. We will also be offering versions for Home Theater applications (center, sides and rears) in both floor and wall mounted styles. Matching powered subwoofers will be available to provide systems providing both audiophile music reproduction and dramatic movie effects.
The Ohm Walsh speakers still provide the widest Sweet-Sweep, where precise stereo imaging can be heard, of any speakers in the world as well as some of the most natural, intelligible voice reproduction in music and dialog. You do not have to sit in just one spot to enjoy an exciting stereo soundstage.
Introductory Sale: For orders taken in July and August, S&H will be only $50 per pair anywhere in the lower 48 states.
Up-Graded older Walsh speakers are available at great prices. Save 20-40% and get the new sound on recycled, refurbished cabinets. Various models and veneers available.
All Ohm speakers are made in Brooklyn NY and we are proud of it!
Please call me personally to discuss your needs and options.
Good Listening!
John Strohbeen, President, 800-783-1553
For more information, please visit our WebSite: http://www.ohmspeakers.com
Click here to unsubscribe. We do not believe in SPAM and do not offer our list to anyone else." |
"Hey Mapman whats going on with the Class D speakers for the Ohm 5 S3s?"
You are asking about a Class D amp, I assume.
I will most likely try one someday when I feel the need to upgrade to more power/juice, but frankly, I'm quite pleased where I am currently with the Musical Fidelity A3CR so no rush. It has been a big time over-achiever at 150w/ch.
My motto is if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and I am in very good shape amp and speaker-wise at present. |
Bondman,
I suspect there are still ways to bring the cost down.
You can pick up used OHMs with good cabinets on Ebay or here and get them upgraded.
Or you can pick up up to two pair of used OHMS cheap that meet OHMs trade-in requirements (in general, cabinets are refurbishable) for value up to 40% off towards something from them and do that (that's what I did for my F-5s).
Or you might just pick up a pair of older second hand OHMs that work and get a flavor with those. |
"How can the Ohm Walsh 5000 match such a wide range of room sizes?"
4 separate 3-way level adjustments including a low bass level adjustment that you set to small, medium or large depending on room size.
"Can you play the Ohm's at lower sound levels and still get involving sounds? Some speakers sound flat and dull unless you turn them up loud."
Yes, but you need a good, high current, matching amp to deliver truly balanced results at low levels in particular. |
I'd agree that the OHMs are at their unique lifelike best at more lifelike listening volumes.
They can do well at low volumes, but will not differentiate themselves from most other good speakers that way.
Planars and electrostats like Maggies excel at lower volumes where big dynamics are less of a concern IMHO.
I also have a pair of small Triangle monitors that are perhaps as good as I have heard at low volumes. The OHMs are not too far being those at low volumes however. |
Yesterday, A friend who went to the recent Paul McCartney concert at FedEx field in DC with me brought over a copy of a very good promotional (or bootleg?) copy of McCartney's performance at Coachella earlier this year that a friend had given him.
We sat down and listened using the Walsh 2 S3s.
He commented on how the sound presentation and quality was very reminiscent of the concert we had attended together. I had the same impression as well.
By design, we had field level seats in the sonic "sweet spot" at the FedEx field concert and the overall sound quality there was top notch for a venue that size.
That was a nice feather in the hat of the OHMs that I thought y'all might appreciate. |
REbbi,
I suspect you are in for a treat once you get everything set up! |
Why not just get the standard design and plug the ports if/when needed?
That's what I do with my Triangle monitors I use with a sub and it seems to work well.
Maybe run that by JS? |
The new models look very nice.
One thing I notice though is 5 models now, each increasing in size. My recollection is that prior there were only 4 models.
I could be wrong on this one but I thought that the only difference between 300s and 5s were the level controls on the driver, not the cabinet size. |
Are the casters a standard alternative to the plinth base?
My impression was that the plinth was used starting with the 100/200/300/5 series in place of the casters used on the larger, older first and second generation OHM Walshs.
Personally I like the versatility the casters provide and I do not hear any noticeable sonic ill effects. |
Looking more carefully at the pics of the new line on th OHM site, it appears that there are actually 6 models currently compared to 5 prior:
prior:
micro
100
200
300
5
current:
micro
1000
2000
3000
4000
5000
4000/5000 appear to share the same largest cabinet size similar to 300s and 5s prior.
Not clear to me yet how the new line compares to old line in terms of cabinet size and target room sizes model per model. There does appear to be one extra model and cabinet size overall this time around though. |
Bondman, I'm curious what is the $9K dream speaker you mentioned? |
Bond,
I never heard the Silverlines but I know they have a great reputation and a good following on this site.
If there is a lower cost design that can challenge them, it may well be the OHM Walshes.
Most tend to think of the OHMs as extremely neutral though.
I would agree but have found that they will reveal the flavor of the electronics behind them quite well, so there are ways to tweak the sound there if desired.
For example, I have used the mhdt Paradisea tube DAC with the OHMS and that provides a healthy dose of tube "euphonics", particulary a lovely and enticing but somewhat artificial amount of presence in the midrange. It can be clearly heard say in comparison to the phono, which also runs through a tubed phono stage in my ARC pre-amp.
Currently, I'm using the SS mhdt Constantine DAC, which is essentially the Paradisea sans tube output stage. The sound with this is much more like my phono stage, ie more neutral I would say.
Rolling other tubes in the Paradisea can also deliver a more "neutral" sound like the Constantine as well, I have found.
I like that the OHMs let you hear what you feed them. It opens up many possibilities regrading the nature of the resultant sound. |
Bond,
FWIW, you mentioned the Silverlines use Dynaudio drivers.
I have Dynaudio Contour monitors in addition to OHMs. The OHM sound is not unlike the Dyns, albeit the presentation of the soundstage is naturally different. The OHMs are also full range and deliver more "meat on the bones" without strain, as I like to say, at realistic listening levels which to me makes things sound more real and lifelike as they should. Typically, only larger and certainly more expensive speakers are capable of that. |
Interesting the European Signature version has a tipped up top end. Maybe to make resemble the MBL sound more? |
Foster, any new progress to report in your setup? |
Yes, I've never owned a parametric equalizer, but always thought them to be a practical and useful tool for tough rooms, particularly a quality one with flexible parameters.
This is the McCormack amp now correct? I suspect that is a very good match to the OHMs from what I have read. If the $600 (used) Musical Fidelity A3CR I acquired and still use did not pan out, a McCormick was a leading contender along with a few others, including the Class Ds. |
Foster, how is the McCormack amp working out?
That, Bryston, a beefier MF, or one of the better Class Ds are the top contenders for me for an upgrade to an even juicier amp for my 5s. |
"I've read some comments that they need at least 6 feet between them to provide the kind of soundstage size they are capable of."
I don't think that is necessarily the case.
I've had my F5s as close as 4-5 feet apart and the soundstage extended from wall to wall, ~3 feet to the right and 12' to the left in my L shaped room (see my system pic) when I sit close enough to have a clear line of sight to the far left rear wall. If I sit further back, the soundstage is correspondingly narrower, depending on line of sight to the left rear wall.
Also, in my small 12X12 room, currently my Walsh 2s (100s) are a good 8-9 feet apart and at an oblique angle with the rear wall (due to tight quarters) and this also produces a soundstage from corner to corner along the rear wall.
I have found they actually work very well in tough rooms, with careful attention to placement and related system factors. |
Bondman,
Fun stuff!
Sounds like you're on the right track. Getting a solid foundation to sit on is of course important for clean bass. I suspect also settings for best integration with the sub might change over time as the OHMs break in and as you refine the exact location of the speaks in the room. |
Joekapahulu,
Are the tweeters oriented towards your listening position? That will typically brighten up the highs. If you sit further back, you might need to toe the OHMS outward to point the tweets more towards your listening position. |
Good point also on the effect of placement relative to walls and corners on tonal balance and clarity Rebbi. |
I know the C2s well. They are inherently brighter in tone than Walshes and most every other OHM speaker I have heard. People either like them for that or not. |
Bondman,
Good signs indeed!
"So, two discs, the same signal chain, and two very different results. I suppose that this is what is meant by good systems providing garbage-in, garbage-out."
No doubt the OHMs will not dress up bad recordings, but I do find they can most always deliver whatever there might be to enjoy in most any recording. |
Rebbi,
For greatest potential improvement, I'd look towards the separates if viable for you. I doubt you could go wrong with Bel Canto for compactness or even Musical Fidelity or Classe (those would be leading contenders were it me). A nice inexpensive used tube pre-amp ( with SS amp is also something to consider. An ARC might be too expensive, but a VTL or JUicy, BAT, or several others I've researched and/or had recommended could be interesting. |
Audiogoner DarkMobius has offered me up some very reliable advice on multiple occasions and recommended these tube pre-amps in the $1K-$2K range to me a while back:
ARC, CAT, BAT, Modwright 9.0, VTL, Cary, Air Tight, Melody |
Reb,
I think you can do it for $1500 and separates can deliver better performance, especially since you already have the separate phono pre-amp.
You could do a Juicy Music Peach + Musical Fidelity A3CR or something similar for about that. That would have been my choice at that price point had I not gone for the more expensive ARC pre-amp (with phono). |
"I actually look forward to sitting down and listening"
That's the acid test for anybody's system IMHO.
Effects of stability may be different with the vertical firing OHMs, but a square and solid foundation is always desirable IMHO. IT might take some fidgeting but should not be too hard to accomplish from my experience. |
Bondman,
Three point is fine. YOu just want stability however you accomplish it.
Bondman,
I had similar experience with limited dynamics on Porcupine Tree albums mainly FOABP early on with my new F-5s even in comparison with my old OHM Ls. BReak in and better amp matching definitely helped.
The PT tree albums I have heard on my system (Deadwing and FOABP) are a good acid test. These albums only sound best LOUD, IMO! |
Rebbi, never heard it but it has good reviews and seems a viable candidate to run the 100s. Spec, vintage and cost wise, it is in the same ballpark as the Musical Fidelity A3CR I use. I think you would have to try it and see. If you do not overpay, you can always resell.
BTW, when I acquired the A3CR, I had no idea how well it would work and was totally prepared to resell and move up to more juice right away, mainly for the Walsh 5s, but whenever I listen on either 100s or 5s I just have not felt compelled to change. |
One more thought on OHM Walshes and Porcupine Tree.
One thing the omni OHM Walshes do not do inherently is "kick you in the face" when playing harder forms of rock music, as many more directional designs will.
Sometimes with harder forms of rock specifically, you want to be kicked in the face with the power of the music. The OHMs are capable of delivering power behind most any kind of music with right amplification, but they will always tend to be more laid back in presentation.
The other end of the speaker design spectrum in this regard are probably high efficiency and traditional directional design horn loaded speakers, like Klipsch and their ilk.
I do think I will acquire a pair of high efficiency horns just to experience the difference someday when I figure out a good way to fit them into my system, maybe as an alternative to the Dynaudios I currently use, if I can bring myself to part with those as well. Also, the room I use the DYns in is only 12X12 and has high WAF requirements, so options are limited.
I can see a pair of horn loaded speakers supplementing my OHMs but not replacing either pair at present. We'll see.... |
Parasound,
Don't get me wrong, the OHM Walshes do very well with heavy rock music. I'm just saying they are inherently laid back. ALong with that, they do not induce fatigue while listening which makes for very good extended listening sessions.
I'm just saying that I have heard PT's FOABP in particular on my OHM Ls in the same room. Ls are forward firing 3-way bookshelf designs and way more forward sounding at most all frequencies than Walshs. They also are clearly inferior with most kinds of music. But for that album, there was something different and likable there. Not necessarily even better, just different and likable. |
Para,
Accuracy may be part of it, but I don't think it is the whole story.
When I saw PT live a year or so back in a moderately small club venue, the sound was very loud, very clean and very in your face, the loudest concert I've been to where my ears did not hurt after wards.
I think Bondman hit it well when he described the effect of adding the sub as supplementing the "feel-it-in-your-gut" sensation.
I also suspect that moving up to a really big, juicy monster amp (250w/ch or more, doubling into 4 and 2 ohm) with the OHMs alone would have similar effect based on some accounts I have read on the web. |
http://reviews.audioreview.com/blog/indepth-user-review-of-the-high-end-but-money-saving-ohm-microwalsh-talls/
Another new OHM MWT review. |
I think it has a lot to offer for that price and fits your needs well.
I heard one at a local dealer a while back. Did not get to listen long, but it sounded very good. I almost bought one for my second system to replace my Yamaha receiver, but decided to just add a tube dac there instead.
THe only hit against it generally is the power amp is not very beefy, but that is a non -issue for you with separate power amp.
If it didn't work out, you could resell easily without much loss also. |
BTW, there is a Musical Fidelity A308CR amp up for sale here currently from a local seller for $1500 that I am strongly considering as a step up from my current A3CR. Wyred 4 Sound has a B stock st--1000 demo unit available also for about $1800 ($2000 list).
I'm open for thoughts on that if anybody has an opinion? |
"Once fully broken in, were the vocals from your Walsh's still very laid back? "
They are very neutral, not inherently bright or forward I would say, but
I think it will depend on room, setup, electronics and other factors, but no, not inherently.
Break in will make a lot of difference in this regard, whether its the speaker breaking in or your ears adjusting to the new sound or a combo of both (most likely the case).
The OHM Walshes are inherently more laid back than forward sounding in general, but the vocals themselves are not relative to the rest. They are generally very clear and right there where they should be on my system.
Now the Walsh 5s are highly adjustable at the speaker, including presence/midrange, but I do not find myself using these much to compensate for anything.
The toe-out trick, exposing the tweeters somewhat more directly in fron of you main listening position, can always be used to brighten things up a bit as well if needed.
IC tweaks can also have a good effect if needed.
Tizzy cymbals should not occur in any case.
At locations well off axis from the tweeters, the top end will drop off but everything else should remain clear and highly coherent.
Lesser recordings in general will sound more laid back than others, I would say. |
Foster,
Nice. Cliff Lee and Chaase Utley tearing apart the Yankees had me feeling pretty good around that time also!
Any observations regarding the McCormack amp compared to the others you tried prior with the 5s? |
REbbi, Nice move! I am very confident you will hear a difference.
3X power increase to hear a real difference based on power alne sounds about right.
My old Carver m4.0t amp that preceeded the MF A3CR was over 300 watts, about 3X that of the A3CR I replaced it with, but nt high current. It could shake the rafters at higher volumes, but was thin sounding at lower volumes. The A3CR cannot shake rafters at any volume, but sounds very solid at all volumes.
If you report back on the Bel CAnto positively, I may finally no longer be able to resist the urge to move back up to not just a more powerful but also juicier amp, Bel Canto or Wyred Class Ds, or bigger MF perhaps. I really do like the sound of the A3CR in my current system...it is hard to fault. More of the same would be just fine with me. Bryston is another possibility. The McCormack that Foster is using now is very appealing also but would cost a nice premium over the Class Ds I think. |
Oh, and Rebbi, I vote tube pre for you for certain. VTL, DHavilland, ARC or Juicy would be the ones I would look for .
You might want to pay special attention to pre-amp output impedance specs relative to the Bel Cant input impedance as a potential indicator of general compatibility for best sound. You want the pre output impedance to be a good bit lower than the amp input impedance in general. |
