Sndsrtaud - Thanks for posting that very extensive list of speakers! I have to admit that I have not heard of many of them, and have not heard most of them. I have heard some of the Silverline Audio speakers, and I usually refer to the Bolero as my dream speaker, so I found it interesting that you like your Ohms better than the Sonata, just one notch below the Bolero. Of course, loudspeaker preference is very personal, but I am with you on this. Every month I get to hear some very good speakers at my local audio club meeting, and it rare that I don't look forward to going home and firing up my Ohm 2000s afterwards.
Mapman - I always keep an eye out for those early stereo LPs with the gatefold that include technical info and a diagram showing the layout of the performers. I have about a dozen of them at this point. They usually sound quite good. Some are demo records produced by or for an electronics manufacturer, like the Admiral demo LP I have, complete with pictures in the gatefold of Admiral console stereos! I love this hobby. |
Kbuzz - I started with a new pair of Ohm Walsh 2000s in my combo 2-channel/HT system, leaving my Vandersteen center and surrounds in place. The back surrounds were and remain a pair of Paradigm Atoms. I sold my Vandersteens (2 pairs of 1Cs and the center). Then I found a pair of MicroWalsh Talls here on A'gon from a nice, local seller. They were a little banged up, but nothing horrible, and the price was right! These are now my L/R surrounds. I doubt you'll see a used Ohm center for sale. I bought the smaller center channel from Ohm (talk to John Strohbeen, and he'll let you know what is appropriate for your set up). It was $700 plus shipping. It is not very large. It is shaped like an upside-down "T". The cabinet is about 16" wide, 3" high, and 5" deep (all approximate). Sitting atop the cabinet is a can roughly the size of a MicroWalsh Tall can, with its cap. I have it on a low, angled stand beneath my Plasma display. While I am much less passionate about film than music, I feel my surround presentation is more than adequate. The uniformity of sonics from one Ohm to the next is outstanding, and a hallmark of John Strohbeen's, IMO.
Phealon: Congrats on the wonderful find! I agree with you about the need for a base. I have cement floors (carpeted). While John was confident that bases were not needed, my floor is uneven, so the speakers rocked a bit (not rocked as in rock 'n' roll, but as in wobbling). I ordered a custom set of cradle bases from Sound Anchors for about $325, with three-point adjustable spikes. Sure enough, the sound improved, with cleaner transients, better definition and increased detail.
Stph: That Kedo speaker uses a Manger midrange driver!! I have heard this driver in a local DIYer's speaker, and it is a remarkable thing. It is a very expensive driver, and the carbon fiber cabinet ain't cheap, either. These have to be $30,000 speakers. Although not a walsh design type, this speaker is clearly designed for 360 degree radiation.
|
Moonglum: I agree fully with Marty and Mapman regarding image hieght. I have just 6' ceilings in my man cave, and with good recordings, the vocalist is about a foot or so beneath the ceiling.
FWIW, I run my 2000s with an Odyssey Audio HT3 (w/ cap upgrade), rated at 150 watts/channel. I do have them rolled off below 80Hz, first order, as my Vandersteen subs roll in. So, the level to the Ohms is down 6dB at 40Hz, and 12dB at 20Hz. I do not push my system so loud that it hurts my ears, but I play it pretty loud, and the system also serves as part of my home theater rig, which can get pretty loud, too (but I don't think I usually watch at "Dolby reference levels"). In the 2.5 years I have had them, I have never felt that they were either underpowered or being over-driven.
And, just like Mapman, I take great pleasure in the fact that, at a fraction of the cost of statement speakers and gear, I have a system that gets closer to SOTA performance than I'd ever hoped for. |
Moonglum: I suspect I would be pleased with my 2000s even without the subs. I had the Vandersteen subs prior to the Ohms, and I remain infatuated with their ability to play deep, tuneful and powerful bass with no boominess, bloat or overhang. For that reason, when I set out to upgrade from Vandersteen 1C mains, I insisted on speakers that would work with the 2Wq subs (basically, any speaker that has good output down to 40Hz). Since the bigger Ohms go even deeper, you will be fine without a sub.
As for the issues arising from running the Walsh driver nearly full-range, I see this as a huge advantage over other speakers. Speakers that are crossed over in the critical midrange or a bit higher usually dissappoint me. There is something special about a speaker that has no crossover in the belly of the frequency curve. I have never liked full-range dynamic drivers, but the Ohm Walshes are quite different. I would think that their radiation pattern would eliminate any issues of beaming at higher frequencies. And, John Strohbeen just knows how to voice speakers, period.
I have wondered, however, what my 2000s would sound like with either a more expensive tweeter or different crossover. But I am reluctant to mess with what I consider a really terrific design. |
Mapman - No, I never heard his system. Come to think of it, I don't even know what it is. But I will ask him next time I see him. |
A few comments for Rbf1138: I agree with all the recent posts here. I would add emphasis on the break in period. When I got my new 2000s, the timbre of intruments was amazing right out of the box, but many other aspects of the sound developed over time. They had broken in enough by the end of the trial period for me to decide to keep them, but they continued to smooth out and become more dynamic for a number of months afterwards. Also, make sure the Ohms are level, and level with each other. And toe-in is counterintuitive on Ohms: Toeing them in reduces the treble output of the tweeter at the listening seat, while toeing out increases it. I have settled on a slight toe-in, but I am sure some would say the treble rolls off too much. I like it that way - I still get excellent detail reteival, but no fatigue from over-bright recordings.
I own the Neko Case CD "Fox Confessor Brings the Flood" and it is a marvelous, well recorded disc that really shows off my Ohms. I brought it to a local Hi-Fi club one time to use as a demo and lots of my audiophile buddies were asking to see the case so they could buy it.
My Ohms made sense of many recordings that had sounded horrible on my Vandersteen 1Cs. One example is the Gladiator soundtrack. This can sound like garbage on systems that are too forward in the upper-mids, dry, that lack resolution, or that compress at high SPLs. On my system, with the Ohms, the recording is indeed as good as Harry Pearson says it can be - very dynamic, detailed, and full of diverse orchestral textures. I can't count the number of pinched, congested, over-bright rock recordings that finally became listenable with the Ohms. My hunch is that the lack of a crossover in the midrange or upper-midrange at least contributes to this wonderfull quality. It's great to choose recordings based on one's preference, without being limited to audiophile-approved recordings (which sound incredibly good on the Ohms). |
Well, I guess tastes differ. I had an audiophile buddy over for a brief audition of my system on Sunday. I thought the thing was sounding pretty good, but he was clearly less than impressed. Afterwards, he asked me if I had intentionally built a Gundry dip into the system. Hmmm. That was interesting because what I like about my rig with the 2000s is that there is no glare or edge in the upper-mid to lower-treble range (to which I am very sensitive). I don't feel like I am missing any of the music, but maybe if one is less sensitive to that range, or if one is used to a system that spotlights that part of the frequency spectrum, it might sound that way. I do have them toed-in slightly. Interestingly, I do feel that many of the better systems I hear have as their Achiles' heel some glare in that range.
I shrugged my shoulders. It is possible that people who hear differently will never "get" the Ohm Walsh sound. Heck, many speakers that I consider overly-bright and glarey sell well, and for very high prices. I still wouldn't trade my Ohms for those speakers, and some of them cost many multiples of my 2000s. To me, once you hear Ohms, with their finely detailed sound without any of the etch or grain of overly-bright speakers, there's no going back. |
I would also consider the Kimber 4VS cables. A tad over-budget, but I have the older version of these and like them. I do plan to upgrade, though. Cables can be a matter of taste, so I would recommend you only buy cables you can return. Buying the Kimbers at Audio Advisor will give you that option, as will buying direct from Blue Jeans Cables. Also check out signalcable.com - low prices on well regarded cables that you can send back if you don't like them. |
Batch - As usual, I fully agree with Mapman. I have a pair of 2000s, in a basement that is about 20' X 18' X 6' (yes, a low ceiling), so it is in the upper range of the cubic footage for the 2000. I power them with an Odyssey Stratos HT3 w/cap upgrade (150 watts/channel). I do cross them over, first order, to a pair of Vandersteen 2Wq subs, so the power demands are reduced somewhat. Although I believe I have enough juice, one day I would like to try some really high powered amps with them, based on what Mapman and others have said.
Arion Audio makes some very sweet sounding Class D and tube hybrid class D monoblock amps with either 250 or 500 watts each. I'd love to hear my Ohms on those, but due to financial considerations, I'll have to wait. They are not crazy expensive, and based on hearing them on several occassions, I think they are a terrific value.
All that said, I did briefly hook up the 2000s, full range, to a vintage 1993 Onkyo surround receiver. I was knocked over by how good they sounded driven by the Onkyo, which is rated at about 80 watts/channel. The bass was full and deep. The bass was so good that if I didn't love my Vandy subs, I might consider running the Ohms full range and selling the subs. But I do love my Vandy subs!
I am hardly unhappy with the sound I have now, even if every now and then I wonder if more power would improve on the already stellar Ohms. I may upgrade the amps someday, but the Ohms stay! |
Batch - What Frazuer said, +1. I ran them plenty, and at all levels, during the trial period, and the changes were significant and obvious. FWIW, I don't think break-in, especially for loudspeakers, has much to do with "getting used to" the new speakers. Ask John Strohbeen or any speaker designer: The various materials in a loudspeaker, from the glues to the cone material to the caps in the crossovers all get excersized during the break in process, and as they flex, they eventually settle in to sounding as they were designed to. But fresh out of the box, the materials will not produce the intended sound.
Rbf1138: The Signal Cables would be a great buy, and at that price, easy to resell if you want to upgrade. I'd suggest picking them up, then, over time, audition cables, ones that can be returned, verses the Signal Cables, and see if you hear an improvement worth paying up for. |
Carja: My situation mirrors Mapman - we're even the same age! I love vinyl, own and still buy LPs, and spin them fairly often. But, the pleasure and ease of use from my Squeezebox Touch and server combo is fantastic. I only have about 20% of my CDs loaded onto the server, and even so, I usually reach for the Squeezebox remote when I want to listen to music. But I also have a DAC that I really enjoy listening to. Looking at your rig, I suspect that your vinyl playback surpasses your digital playbeck by a good margin. Unless you want to spend money on a good DAC, just relax and enjoy yout vinyl! |
Kbuzz - If you read back through this thread, you'll see that I started with a pair of Ohm 2000s to replace my mains in my combo 2-channel/7.1 home theater. I then grabbed a pair of MWTs used on Audiogon to replace my surrounds, then ordered a center channel from Ohm. Only the subs and the back surrounds are not Ohms at this point. I am extremely pleased with the surround sound - Ohm speakers maintain their voicing uniformly throughout the Walsh series better than most other brands. |
Kbuzz - While it would be very difficult to find another brand that was a good match in timbre for the Ohms, if your AVR or pre-pro has a room EQ feature, you should be able to get a better match than without that feature. Especially helpful is an EQ that can be adjusted manually, and separately for each channel. My very inexpensive Pioneer AVR (which I use as a pre-pro and amp for the surround channels in my combo 2-channel/HT system) has MCACC, the Pioneer proprietary room EQ program that does a very good job, and can be tweaked manually without losing any of the other settings. |
AFAIK, Duets are limited to leftover stock - both the Duet & Quintet (which I use) are out of production. A replacement for the Quintet is soon to be available, at $500. I have not heard anything about a replacement for the Duet. I would look at this one: Furman PST-8 Power Station Series AC Power Conditioner, just about $100 on Amazon now. I have no experience with this unit, but Furman has a good reputation, and I think it is returnable if you buy from Amazon. |
|
FWIW, I recently removed some foam sound panels from behind my Ohms (they were at ear level). With carpeting and almost no windows in my cellar listening area, I think I might have overdone it with the sound absorbtion materials. If you look through this thread, you'll see where a bit of reflectivity isn't always a bad thing for omnis like the Ohms. I keep thinking that I ought to cover up my Plasma TV that sits behind and between my Ohms, but then again, they sound good right now, and I am afraid to guild the lilly. I wouldn't make any acoustic changes I couldn't remove easily. The foam panels were attached to the drywall with T-pins, and were easily removed. Just my $0.02. |
Rbf1138: I use a pair of Vandersteen 2Wqs with my 2000s, but that's not in your budget. In your budget, I'd look into the Velodyne EQ Max 8. IMHO, having the ability to EQ the in-room response of a sub is very important, and in this price range, not many subs offer that capability. If your room is appropriately sized for the MWTs, the EQ Max 8 should be sufficient, especially for music (as opposed to home theater). As for the connection, I prefer the subs to be in-line with the main speakers, the only way the Vandys can be connected. However, it is often the case that the sub's built in high-pass filter for the speaker-level connections is inferior to the crossover in an AVR or preamp or integrated amp. If your Peachtree has an internal crossover with an RCA subwoofer output, it will probably be better than the crossover in most subwoofers. But try it both ways and see which sounds and blends better.
Finsup: Although my 2-channel signal chain does not use any room EQ, my surround signal chain does. I have a Pioneer AVR with MCACC, which works rather well, especially compared to the Audyssey built into my previous pre-pro. I have to admit that there is a "rightness" to the sound when I have even lo-res sources on, like Music Choice on FiOS. The jazz channel, which in my set up must come through the room EQ'd Pioneer AVR, sounds amazingly good for a compressed, reduced-resolution digital signal being converted to analog by a <$500 AVR. If I had more money, and was not such a die-hard analog fan, I might look into the higher end room EQ products. My main suggestion here is to insist on the ability to fine-tune the room EQ results after the device does its thing. My old pre-pro was all-or-nothing; if you didn't like the way the Audyssey EQ'd the room, your only choice was to turn the whole room EQ thing off. With the MCACC, I can fine tune it, correcting any setting I don't like, while keeping the rest. |
You are correct about the "in-line" set up. Go ahead with your plans. I would do some critical listening before and after the sub is in the system. Don't pay much attention to the bass, which will of course be different. Listen for changes in the upper bass, mids and treble. Listen for detail, soundstage dimensionality, timbre, etc. If you feel these are worse with the sub in the system, consider using the line outputs from the Nova. Make sure the output is variable level, so volume changes to the speakers will match volume changes to the sub. Note that, from what I see in the image, there is no internal x-over in the Nova, so that the Ohms will still get a full-range signal. This will eliminate some of the advantages of a powered sub - less amp power is required for the main speakers, which usually improves performance. Of course, you can always look into outboard, higher quality crossovers in the future. |
It should be specified in the owner's manual. Sometimes, preamp outputs are fixed-level, like a tape-out output, so that the sugnal is at a constant setting. The variable level output will be affected by adjustments to the Nova's volume control. If you are not sure, connect the preamp output to the subwoofer, lower the subwoofer's volume to zero. Put on some music, then gradually increase the subwoofer's volume control. Once you can hear the subwoofer putting out a signal (audible bass), lower the Nova's volume slowly until it is at zero. If you still hear the subwoofer, but the main speakers are silent, you are connected to a fixed-level preamp output. If the subwoofer also goes silent, you have variable level. BTW, some preamps and amps allow you to select variable or fixed output via a switch or set up program. |
Rbf1138 - I feel partly responsible for your dissatisfaction, since I suggested the Velodyne to you. But I think the regulars on this thread have given you sound advice. I'd lower the crossover a bit, since I bet your Ohms go below 100Hz, at least to 80Hz and probably lower. Don't attempt to make the Velodyne your bass driver. Just have it to fill in on those rare moments when true deep bass is present in the signal. Ideally, shutting off the sub should not result in a huge apparent difference in the balance of the sound.
And, absolutely, bass content, amplitude, and extension varies tremendously with each recording. Find a happy average setting, and then you can make small adjustments on the fly with the Velo's remote. But remember what your baseline reference setting is.
This is why I am glad I have tone controls on my preamp. Purists will attack me, but it is nice to know I can make adjustments if needed, even though 95% of the time, I bypass those tone controls. |
Tim - I do use Pandora for background, especially when I am ripping & tagging CDs onto my server. But for serious listening, I try to avoid lo-res sources like Pandora. While it sounds unoffensive on my system, it can't get near the presence and dynamics of full res FLAC files through my SBT and Superberry DAC. |
Thanks for you thoughts, Wtf. Very instructive. |
As a happy owner of the 2000s and an older pair of MWTs, I would say, expect clearly audible, but subtle differences. Not night and day changes. This is a good thing. Unlike some speaker makers, Ohms continue to be voiced similarly by the original designer, John Strohbeen, and he is good at getting speakers to sound the way he wants them to. So, the Ohm house sound is retained, just refined further in an evolutionary way. |
Yes, and yes, Mapman. I am a real prepper. Everyone laughed at me until Sandy hit. Unfortunately, while I know how important a whole-house generator is, I just cannot afford one, so that was the one hole in my preparedness. My basement system was protected by a sump pump and a water-powered sump pump backup. I powered everything down and disconnected from the wall sockets prior to the storm, and made sure all but my subwoofers were elevated a few inches off the floor. When we lost power, and evacuated to my parents, I took the music server's portable backup drive with me. While not an expensive item, the time spent loading my music (about 1/3 done after a year and a quarter of ripping) is not covered by insurance. But the power came back on Saturday, and by later Saturday night I was enjoying some badly missed listening (my folks have a very crappy stereo). Thanks for asking. |
I had a sublime experience last night. I threw the SBT on random song mix mode and relaxed for a while, lights down, chair reclined back. On came "Nathan Jones" by Bananarama. Don't laugh, I really enjoyed 80s and 90s pop. I remember this LP - "Wow" - which came out around 1990, as a really bright sounding CD. Well, yes, it was bright, but not at all in the bad way I recall from my pre-Ohm days. On the contrary, while light in the bass, it was highly detailed, smooth, and I heard lots of details I'd never heard before. I sat there with a silly grin on my mug for the whole cut. I find myself more and more often chosing to flip on the Squeezebox Touch rather than switch in the TV or watch a film. This is a good thing. Many TV shows and films dissappoint, but music from my own library almost never does. Lovin' my Ohms! |
Frazeur - I haven't had the time or the inclination to search through the Logitech forums to get the story. Unfortunately, making a great sounding music player for very little money doesn't mean much outside our very rarified world. Since you can't walk down the street with it, or import 32kbps audio files from some cloud somewhere, or make phone calls on it, or surf the net while you listen, the SBT had limited appeal to the current generation of attention span-challenged 20-somethings. A real shame if they don't replace it or license it to someone. The SBT happens to be a match for the Vortexbox appliance made in heaven. Maybe the Vortexbox folks will buy the rights to the SBT technology? Who knows. Yes, there are many ways to skin the music server cat, but the SBT was one of the easiest, most cost effective, and high performance ways ever. If you need any info on the Vortexbox from a happy user, just let me know. |
Frazeur - My 2000s are singing wonderfully. A recent power cord change to my amp is over-emphasizing some HF transients, especially on certain female voices, but the cord is still running in, and upgrading the plugs should fix it completely. I just need money! It's amazing how revealing the Ohms are of changes upstream. I've been listening more often and for as long as I can lately. |
Wishing you a speedy recovery, Tim. |
Wtf - Thanks for the update. I bet I am not the only one who would love to hear your impressions of the differences of the three speakers you own. If you have the time, that is.
I also love music and gear, but space and finances require me to keep my purchases well-spaced and sensible upgrades rare. I am on year three with my Ohms, which replaced my 9-year-old Vandersteen 1Cs. Anything can happen, but I would not be surprised if I am listening to the Ohms for the rest of my life. I really cannot find anything in them to complain about. Of course, since I frequent hi-fi shows and audio club meets, you never know when I will hear something that is both affordable and good enough to make me think I could improve on the Ohms.
I will say this: The only speaker other than the Ohms I would recommend in the ~$3K price range for tower speakers is one that is newer than my Ohms, and one I only heard last summer - The Golden Ear Triton. I have yet to hear anything else in this price range (which is my price range) that I could live with long term.
Being this happy with my Ohms allows me to focus on improvements elsewhere in the system. So far, the Ohms have clearly revealed the value, or lack thereof, of any changes to gear or wires I have made. Current focus is on cabling. |
Well, the results of my power cord upgrade are in. If you had told me five years ago that for under $3K I could own a pair orf loudspeakers that allowed me to hear the difference between brass plugs and copper plugs on the same power cord, I would have probably said that wouldn't be possible for $30K. But here we are. Needing a rather long power cord in order to move my amp nearer to my Walsh 2000s, I had to stick with lower-priced brands. I once bought a pair of ICs from AudioArt Cables, and liked them, so I spoke with Rob Fritz at AudioArt about a 5.5 meter power cord. Since the long run was pricey, I went with the entry-level Wattgate plugs, which are made of brass. While the cord sounded okay, there was a frequent emphasis in high frequency sibilants that was not pleasent, most often on female vocals. I talked to Rob about it, and he suggested I upgrade the cable plugs to copper Furutechs in order to eliminate the issue. I have to admit I was skeptical, but I tried it anyway. Well, eureka! The copper plugs fixed the sibilance issue, and sound really smooth, with nice extension at both ends, improved dynamic slam, and excellent soundstage width. The power cord was a good deal, but I am still shocked that my relatively inexpensive system with my Ohms was able to resolve this tiny difference in the power cord's plugs. |
Jwc2012 - Thanks for the post. John S. is a real gentleman, and very generous (I speak from my own experience).
Mapman - Of course it is possible that something in how the chord and plugs are connected could be different. However, it was an upgrade done by the cable seller, Audio Art, to a power chord. I doubt anything changed besides the plugs.
Of course, Murphy's law rules: Now having all the cables needed to move my amp closer to my speakers, I did so, and was rewarded with a short in one or more of the ICs. I am stuck with headphones until I sort this out. :-( |
Jwc2012: Well, I sorted out the short. It seems the unbalanced main outputs on my preamp have failed. The wires are fine. Fortunately, my preamp has three sets of unbalanced main outputs, so I switched to a different set. Everything works fine, although I am a bit upset that this will be an issue if I ever sell the preamp. I'd either have to have it repaired or take a much lower price. Most of all, I thought I was buying a bullet-proof preamp, but the first one I bought had the same issue out of the box. I exchanged it, and 2.5 years later, I have the same issue with the second unit. I suppose the weight of the long RCA cables might have pulled something loose in the preamp, but that should not have happened. In any case, I now have the cables dressed in a way that does not stress the output jacks.
But I am back to basking in glorious Ohm Walsh sound! |
Yup, unique is the right word. Blue Circle doesn't have any mention of the BM2 on its web site, including in the History section. Too bad. |
Well - Props to Mapman and other Ohm Walsh owners who have stressed the importance of sufficient wattage. I had the opportunity to borrow from Mike Kalellis, of MK Audio, a pair of his Arion monoblock amps (not the tube hybrid model, but the standard Class D model). These are Class D amps rated at 500 watts per channel. Honestly, I did not think that my Odyssey Audio HT3 (with cap upgrade), at 150 watts per channel, could ever be a bottleneck in my system, especially since I cross over the Ohms to powered subs at 80Hz (1st order slope). But, there you are. As they say in the automotive world, there is no replacement for displacement. With the Arions powering the Walsh 2000s, most of the objectionable things I was aware of at high volumes are gone. I had thought these were acoustics-related, but nearly all of these things, which made high-SPL listening less appealing than moderate volumes, vanished. I also note better depth in the soundstage, more dynamic oomph, and overall, cleaner sound. These are not perfect amplifiers, and I have yet to decide how I feel about the Class D presentation, even as well executed as it is in the Arions. But I now know for sure that the Ohms really do thrive on big-power amplifiers. Oh well, no money for an upgrade now, but I know what I will have to do eventually. |
The D Sonics and the Wyred 4 Sound Class D amps seem to be the most high value in terms of watts/dollar when looking at 500 watts/channel. The Arions I am now borrowing, IIRC, are priced at $4500/pr, with the tube hybrid version priced at $6K/pr. The other well-regarded Class D amps are also pricey, like the Merrill Audio and the Bel Canto. As I said though, I am not ready to pronounce Class D as the winner. Therefore, I am also considering more traditional high wattage amps, like a McIntosh (used) or the Sanders MagTech. The Sanders, in particular, are competitively priced with the Class D amps under consideration. Well, all moot. Who knows what will be available, and at what price, when I finally have the wood to drop on a new amp? |
Mapman - Agreed. I know that the number of watts per dollar is not the only, nor the most important, aspect of a power amp. But I am very curious about the D-Sonic amps. These have massive power, and at least one very good review in the audio press. Can't do anything now. Tuition bills up to my eyeballs. BTW, are the ref1000m amps the current BC model? |
Ultimatezap - I can't help you with the speaker comparisons, but I will caution you regarding the Ohms: Allow plenty of break-in time. If you've read this thread, then you you should have a rough idea of what to expect as the Walsh drivers break in. That said, enjoy! I think you'll be quite pleased.
As for Porcupine Tree, I agree, Deadwing is the best, although In Absentia is also a favorite. I played "Arriving Somewhere..." at my audio club meeting this past Sunday. Except for the hard-core classical and jazz buffs, I got a lot of compliments, and several people asked to see the CD so they could go home and buy it (or download it). |
Ultimatezap: I rarely come up from the man cave! I think my kids miss me, but the wife, not so much. You can try to organize an audio club if you want. Start small with meetings every other month. Food is always a good way to attract people. You might be surprised what might happen if you post on the Audio Club section that you would like to organize a local club.
Mapman - Yes, the NJ Audio Society is fantastic. (Disclaimer - I am the meetings chairman.) The $60 in dues I pay each year are the best 60 bucks I spend on audio. Our activities range from just listening to great music on people's systems to having special guests, like musicians, recording engineers, conductors, hifi equipment and speaker designers, and even antique audio themed meetings. We have over 70 members, with systems that range from entry-level to six-figures. In the four years I have been in the club, I've heard many great systems, some not so great, and been exposed to all kinds of great music. Last year, we had an official from the Edison Museum demonstrate a wax cylinder recorder and player, complete with a concert violinist and piano player, while also recording the performance on reel-to-reel and digital recorders. Last month, VPI, the turntable and LP cleaner people, invited us in to their factory/showroom. It was incredible.
BTW, I have to return those Class D amps today. Depression has set in. My old amp will never do it for me again. I got to save for that monster amplifier. Those extra 350 watts/side made a huge difference, for the better. |
Sorry about that, Ultimatezap. At least you will have something to keep you busy until you get back to work.
BTW, I neglected to mention, about 11 years ago, I sold NHT at a regional audio-video store. I always liked the NHTs, and frankly, they were the best sounding (if not the most expensive) brand we sold. But, I do recall very well those metal dome tweeters. With the mediocre AVRs and amps we had on hand, these tweets were displayed in all of their harsh, bright, ragged glory. If any of that has ever bothered you about your NHTs, you're in for a treat. |
Nice to hear, Marty. Those Onkyo power amps are pretty sexy looking. What are some of the other amps you use? |
Ultimatezap: Congrats! I, too, have a big screen - a 55" plasma, mounted behind and between my Ohms. I had thought about a curtain for them, but based on the sound I am getting, and on Mapman's comments, I am going to leave it be. Before the Ohms, I had put up a good number of acoustic foam panels on the plane of the Ohm cans on the side and front walls. But I also felt it was a litle too dead, and have removed some of them. I do have the Ohms toed in slightly, which for the Walsh series actually attenuates the tweeter output at the listening position. It is a tad warmer than neutral, but I prefer it that way.
As for the phase issues, you could leave it alone, but make sure it only the terminals that are switched. Make sure the Walsh driver and tweeter are not wired out of phase with each other (I couldn't tell you how to do this, however).
Blueranger - Ugh. Another Ohm Walsh owner, like Mapman, reinforcing the need for serious wattage with the Ohms. As you may have read, I recently tried 500 watt class D monoblocks with my 2000s, and I absolutely agree with you. Unfortunately, I can't afford a new amp. I still enjoy listening, but all I can think about is how good the 2000s sounded with those 500 watters. Dang! |
You are spot-on, Mapman. I have indeed crossed over, and my conscience will not rest until I can feed my Ohms properly. |
This is for Jim and nyaudio98: As I've posted here previously, one of the best aspects of Ohm Acoustics is that John Strohbeen achieves nearly identical voicing throughout the Walsh series. IME, most speaker manufacturers start each line with one model, then build up and down from that point. Since each of the successive models are compromised designs to meet a price or size point, the best of the series is usually that initial design, upon which most of the R&D was lavished. Of course, there are exceptions (Silverline Audio is one exception I can think of). But, as an owner of a pair of 2000s as well as a used, older pair of MWTs (for the surround channels), and a Walsh Center, I have to say that in terms of timbre and soundstage presentation, the consistency through the line is near ideal. But the MWTs did not do as well filling my rather large basement listening/viewing room as the 2000s, which are appropriate for my room based on the cubic footage.
As for the lack of reviews, there are several possibilities: The product has not changed significantly in many years, evolving instead of reinventing. I know for sure that John Strohbeen dislikes shows because he is fussy about setup, and turned my audio club down for that reason, too. Perhaps he does not trust many reviewers to set them up properly. Ohm's direct sales business model is not always viewed favorably by the audio journalist community, since it bypasses the struggling b&m dealers.
I have heard the MBLs many times and if I'd won that Powerball, that's what I'd buy. Sort of Ohms on steroids. But for the money, I have yet to hear anything I'd rather own than my Ohms.
As always, if anyone is in or passing by my Union County, NJ, home, let me know and perhaps we set up an audition. Just be warned that, as noted above, my amp is holding my Ohms back. Maybe the IRS will send me some money this summer for a new amp? (That's a joke.) |
Finsup: My 2-channel chain does not include any DSP. However, when I listen in surround, my AVR applies Pioneer's MCACC, and I do notice a smoother quality to the sound. Note that I run my 2000s with a pair of Vandersteen 2Wq subs with Vandy HP-5 crossovers. I have never felt the need for any EQ in the bass, but maybe it would help things.
Tobeornottobe: Fascinating post! I have often wondered what my Ohms would sound like with a pricier tweeter. Did you disconnect the Ohm Walsh super tweeter, or does it continue to run alongside the Omni Harmonizers? FWIW, I have no issues with a solid center image. If anything, it is too centered and narrow. That may be due to room treatments (mostly Auralex foam panels). I have removed some of them, and may remove more. |
Tobeornottobe: I just read the Audiophile Voice review linked at the M&D web site. Interesting. I do wonder, though: Where did you place the Omni-Harmonizers? The Walsh caps are not totally flat, and I would bet John Strohbeen would not approve of placing anything atop them, much less the Omni-Harmonizers that must be fairly heavy. I would think it would interfere with the upward radiation of the Walsh drivers, no? One of the things I love about the Ohms is the floor-to-ceiling imaging. I'd hate to compromise that. |
Drakef5: No need to apologize for a very interesting post. Welcome to the Ohm club! As for the power issue, as you can see, I recently had this answered for me with the loan of a pair of 500 watt monoblocks. Remember, I also have my 2000s crossed over to powered subs (80Hz, 1st order). My 150 watt/channel amp, the very beefy Odyssey Stratos HT3 w/cap upgrade, was actually clipping audibly in the midrange on vocals! I was surprised by this, but hearing the Ohms with massive power was an epiphany. John Strohbeen recently told me that as long as I don't go overboard with the volume control, I could upgrade to a 1500 watt/channel amp, and I am thinking of doing just that as soon as I can afford it. Mapman uses 500 watt/channel Bel Canto amps, and agrees that the extra power allows the Ohms to perform their best. Ohm never claimed that the Walsh speakers are high-efficiency models. But with class-D amps getting better, massive, quality wattage is becomming more affordable and practical. Although in a very small room, modest power will work, you just have got to hear what the Ohms can do in a large room with really massive power on tap. There is nothing quite like it! |
Dsremer - Thanks a bunch for chiming in, your posts were very helpful. The AVMs, Merrils and other Hypex-based Class D amps are just too expensive for me at this time, but the D-Sonics might be a nice compromise between price, power, and sonics. I am looking at the 1500 watt/channel stereo model. The amps I had on loan were the Arion Audio RS-500 monos. Sounded fantastic, as I have stated. But, you know, if 500 watts is great, 1500 watts mmust be 3 X as great! |
Drakef5: An audio club budy of mine uses a Denon AVR, suplemented by Crown power amps (not sure which ones) to power his own design speakers and subwoofers. Plenty of oomph, but I suspect they lack the refinement that an amp designed for audiophiles would have. If you decide to try the Crowns, make sure you can try them out in your system and that they can be returned if you're not happy with the results. |
Coot - If you review my more recent posts, you will see that my Odyssey Audio HT3 amp (w/ cap upgrade), which is rated at 150 watts/channel @ 8 ohms, was audibly clipping **in the midrange**, especially on vocals. I do run my Walsh 2000s with powered subs, but the Odyssey was struggling with the midrange. IMHO, I would go with a beefier power amp before I added subs to a pair of 5000s. You will still get plenty of bass out of the Ohms, and if your room is large, and your present amp is clipping, you could damage the 5000s. |
Coot: At the rate I am going, you'll have your new amp before I will have mine, so when you do get it, please post your impressions. Thanks! |
