Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?
Hi,
I'd love to hear the impressions of people who've actually spent some time with these speakers to share their sense of their plusses and minuses. Mapman here on Audiogon is a big fan, and has shared lots on them, but I'm wondering who else might be familiar with them.
I'd love to hear the impressions of people who've actually spent some time with these speakers to share their sense of their plusses and minuses. Mapman here on Audiogon is a big fan, and has shared lots on them, but I'm wondering who else might be familiar with them.
Showing 50 responses by mapman
No. I was very tempted but had no real need what with two larger pair already. I did buy a Chord Mojo portable DAC and a nice aluminum 45 record adapter and some music. Also I got to hear German Physiks for the first time. Those are speakers I could live with but very pricey. The sound was spot on in every way running off Merrill Class D amps. They had a prime spot in a somewhat larger room that was right off the atrium. They have a new US distributor located in North Jersey so perhaps they will start to make a bigger showing here now. I also heard Tekton for the first time. Double Impacts I think., I liked those very much as well. 10 watt tube amp had them playing nicely in a smaller hotel room. These could be the ticket for someone with a lower powered amp that wants more sound for the dollar. Not a lot of WAF appeal though. I found the sound very engaging. MEAT ON THE BONES which so many smaller setups often lack and perhaps just a nice smidgeon of warmth. Only problem with these larger speakers in the smaller room was I could hear location of individual drivers though the overall soundstage and imaging was quite good. The Vanadoo powered speakers sounded very good for their size and represented a very good value. Also had a nice discounted show price as did Benchmark again this year (10% off) In all most rooms had good sound. Class D and tube amps were often the culprits and hard to distinguish without looking. One or two rooms perhaps that I thought clearly under performed. I still say these shows need to promote more of a range of gear at various price points to draw more people. The vast majority of gear was very pricey still well beyond what most normal people would consider. Lots of good sound but I found myself often questioning the value proposition. Very nice show for an audiophile in any case. |
My wife and I had dinner at the Hilton Friday night after arriving in Rockville. Afterwards we walked through the quiet Atrium checking things out (show had been over that day for a few hours) and a gentleman with The Audio Company greeted us and offered a private listen to the "Million Dollar" VAC Von Schweikert system in their feature room off the Atrium. We of course took him up on it and got the private screening. Needless to say it sounded great and my wife and I were very impressed. The rep was very gracious! My wife was ready to write the check! |
I've read some similar positive comments on the OHM setup at the NY show on some other recent threads here. Yes I have always liked Electrocompaniet gear that I have heard. My phono step up transformer is an older Electrocompaniet unit that my dealer sold me used for a good price to help mate my Denon DL103R cart to my ARC sp16 pre-amp when I bought that from him. |
I also find reflections behind the speakers can be beneficial. I have large sliding glass door with vertical blinds behind my F5s in my main system. Opening or closing the blinds or doors changes the soundstage and imaging but not in a negative way. Open blinds provides a more central focus to the soundstage. Opening the door reduces bass energy somewhat. However no early reflections are ever beneficial. Thes have a smearing effect on all aspects of the presentation. Those are the only ones I try to categorically avoid. Others are integral parts of the resulting sound and can be tweaked accordingly as desired. |
Engine, good idea! I might have to try that next time I try using my OHMs in my second A/V system where I have 2 flat surfaces in relative close proximity to the drivers, big screen between and slightly to rear and 6’ tall audio cabinet immediately to the right and rear of the right speaker. Inside the grille or outside the can could both work. |
What was the amp improvement? BTW when I talk about maxing out, I mean the sound I can get in that room. The first choice I made was to go with the OHMs for that and then kept on tweaking from there. In my second system everything sounds lovely but there are limits, errors of ommission and WAF mainly. |
Bondman agree with schubert but also know what you mean in the case of the OHMs specifically. I’ve been on a mission with many upgrades and tweaks in recent years to max them out and get the sound just right. Have not touched a thing in a couple years now and come home from dealers and show demos perfectly happy everytime. I did acquire a Chord Mojo DAC I use with that system sometimes now with Iphone or Ipad as source and that provides a slightly different windows on the music in every way compared to my older mhdt Constantine DAC which is also no slouch just different. I do enjoy the ability to hear differences in gear especially when it all sounds splendid. I’ve had the same experience in my second system (within its limits) with other quality speakers, Dynaudio, Triangle, even an old pair of tiny Boston A40s from the 1980s I refoamed a while back. |
Did OHM indicate the reason for 1000 rather than 2000 if the site indicates 2000 for that room volume and the room also opens up to adjacent areas? I would want to know if it were me. The difference between 1000 and 2000 should be mainly bass levels in a given size room. Larger models might also be a tad more efficient if it matters in your case but I would ask OHM about that to be sure. Floor type and interactions are another significant factor to consider. If your floors have a lot of give, as most floors in modern homes are, that affects the bass in that mid bass gets an artificial bump that can also obscure mid-range and detail to some extent. Isolation pads like Auralex subdude platforms solve that problem. I use my OHM 100s which also have 8" drivers in a comparable sized open room area with excellent results however I use the sub dude platforms on upper levels. Not needed in finished listening room at foundation level. |
Yes I use subdudes under my 100s when used in rooms on upper levels of the house. Its the floor construction (suspended plywood) that matters not the cover type. If you jump up and down and get any vibrations transmitted to items in the room then the subdudes should make a difference. I think I read somewhere that the smaller models are less efficient than larger but if ratings are similar most likely not much difference with these two models specifically. |
Good summary Bondman. OHMs goal is to make good sound easy and affordable, not hard and complex. I ran them for many years that way not worrying about what could be done to make things better. In 2008 or so I decided to focus on achieving the best sound I could for me and after joining this forum, dabbling with some other options for a number of years and listening to all the various options, including QUAD ES, Magnepan, and other more conventional designs including B&W, Triangle and Dynaudio, I decided to give the OHM upgrades a chance. Everything else in my system changed after I got the upgraded OHMs in order to perfect the sound. Now it has been that way for several years now and I have enjoyed countless hours of totally contented listening regularly since. Its an endeavor well worth it if one cares, but with the OHMs and the ready availability of high quality electronics to run them these days, its not that hard for many to get the best sound they have ever had relatively easily. |
You might get by with Microwalsh talls, even smaller, more like Arro size I think. Call OHM and talk to John Strohbeen. See what he says. I use ohm 100s (slightly larger than 1000) in 12X12 rooms as close as 1 foot to walls to better effect than conventional monitors or towers of similar size in there. |
BTW, Totem Arro and OHM MWT are perhaps my two favorite floor standers of their size and price range that I know of. I could live with either but in the end I would probably live more contently with the MWTs because I am an omni kind of guy in general. Room acoustics and placement options will be a big factor in choosing between these two as both do everything they do extremely well. Is MWT as detailed as Arro? Would have to spend more time with both to know for sure. |
I use this. Works very well and won't set you back much. https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000BBGCCI/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all Got a Spin Clean record washing gadget recently but have not tried yet. I clean teh records manually before digitizing to-date. |
I’ve heard Tekton double impact at a show. Obviously OHM and Tekton are very different. Ohm Walsh unique strength is the very large sweet range and overall coherence. Tekton tends to be higher efficiency if needed and watts are limited and seem designed to pair well with tube amps. The build quality critique is a red herring in that these have been proven to have very good longevity with owners and are very hard to damage compared to many. Build is very robust but the finish is not that of various luxury lines out there. I think I recall Tekton does offer upgraded finishes. Check with Ohm to see if that is an available option with them these days. |
I should qualify that I have run my OHMS off two SS amps designed to deliver sound like a tube amp: Carver m4.0t and Tube Audio Design Hibachis. These both sounded Ok but it takes a more highly damped, beefy, high current, low output impedance SS amp to make the OHMs sing best. More watts like that will get you higher SPLs with the Ohms and they do that very well. I have found good quality modern Class D amps tend to do that in smaller more affordable packages and these tend to really get the most possible out of OHM Walsh speakers and that is a lot. You can throw the kitchen sink at them and they will never sound stressed or compressed. Most any amp will run out of gas first. I use my Ohms in my two larger rooms. I use Bel Canto ref1000m amps 500w/ch into 8 ohms, high current delivery, with my big OHM 5s (12 inch driver with 4 three way level adjustments to tune for use in most any room) and this setup does it all. I use smaller but similar 60 w/ch Bel Canto c5i integrated with my OHM 100s (8" driver). The only limitation there is how loud and dynamic I can go which is still quite up there by most standards but not rock concert or symphony hall level loud like I can in my bigger setup. |
The other key differences would be 1) size and sound dispersion pattern differences which would determine which might work best/synergize with your specific room, always a key concern for getting the best sound possible out of any particular room. 2) Bass levels. This will vary greatly in a particular room depending on placement and may be hard to get right with the wrong speakers in the room. Closer to walls and even more so corners will boost bass levels whereas some distance from walls is needed for a good sound stage and imaging if those are areas of concern for you . Ohms can go surprising close to walls if needed and the speaker size and associated cost will determine the bass levels. Larger and smaller Walsh models are designed to sound the same. The diffference is which will work best in a room of a particular size. There is a calculator on teh site to help determine and always worth a discussion with Ohm to determine best. There are different Tekton models available to match best to a room but each tends to have a somewhat different design and I would anticipate different corresponding sound. The ones I heard were Double Impact in a typical hotel sized room. They did surprisingly well in there off of a relatively low powered tube amp as I recall. I’m sure there are other timbral differences between Ohm and Tekton but my exposure to Tekton is too limited to say other than in my one limited audition with a tube amp for about 30 minutes I found the Tekton Double Impact timbre to be pleasing and easy on the ears in a fairly near field configuration much like every OHM Walsh I have ever heard in various setups over the years. I’ve owned and continue to enjoy Ohm Walsh and other lines for almost 40 years now amazingly enough. I’ve always used SS amps with my OHMs and have never heard them off a tube amp, though I know others here have gone that way. 3) The only speakers I have heard that compete with OHM in regards to delivering live-like imaging and soundstage is mbl. Others may do soundstage and imaging quite well but many recordings will still sound like recordings whereas the OHMs deliver a live-like presentation with most any recording, including monophonic recordings, which really opens up a lot of new highly-rewarding listening possibilities that might be overlooked otherwise. They always sound like the performers are in your room. I would say OHMs are a unique speaker for music lovers. Hope that helps. Good luck. |
First let me say that all I care about is the sound, not the parts used to create it, and perhaps WAF to some extent. Yes its notoriously pretty ugly inside an original Walsh 2. Good thing its all out of sight. I doubt the newer ones are much prettier inside the cans but the sound is competitive now with other modern speakers whereas original Walsh 2s are not. I know because I a/b compared my original Walsh 2s against my ohm 100s in original Walsh 2 cabs when I acquired those before trading in my 2s for newer bigger 5 series 3, that I still use in my main system. The 100s are in my second family room system. I also run small Kef ls50s and just recently now Vanatoo Transparent One encore monitors in other smaller rooms off the same system as the Ohms. Just prior recently, I ran Dynaudio and Triangle speakers in those rooms. Triangle still uses paper drivers I’m pretty sure because those still offer unique advantages these days in terms of speed and transparency. Those were not characteristics of original Walsh 2s, though definitely more so with the newer models. Its the cabinets that have trade-in value. So I believe you can still pick up an old pair cheap and get up to 40% off new models just by trading in. I did that when buying my Ohm 5 series 3 speakers back in 2008. Traded in my old Walsh 2s and picked up a pair of old C2s on ebay for not much and had them shipped straight to Ohm for 40% off trade in. The final cost of the Walsh F5 series three speakers to me in 2008 was ~$2400. These are the 12" drivers of the time with 4 built in 3-way level adjustments in refurbed OHm F cabinets. They listed for ~ $5500 at the time whereas same driver in new cabs were $6000 at the time. Building speakers for a living in NYC these days can’t be cheap. I know John Strohbeen strives to offer the best sound possible per $$$ and has been in business now for over 40 years so he must be doing something right. |
The special thing still about even original Walsh 2s, besides the usual big sweet area etc. is how robust and coherent they are. The drivers are protected well by that can. Also they can deliver a lot of fairly wide range sound compared to most anything else in the price range. I’ve told the story how I once used them on the porch of a farmhouse at an outdoor event with listeners in a field 50-100 yards away, run off a 80w/ch Tandberg tr2080 receiver and it was like the musicians were playing on that front porch. Plus I owned and used mine from ~1981-2008 before trading in to replace my Magnepans (which I bought ~ 1987 and went to the factory for a complete refurb less than ten years later) at the time and they still worked perfectly. Pretty good for for a $5 design! :^) |
Here's a new post from Ohm in the news section of their website about their setup at RMAF. https://ohmspeaker.com/news/rmaf-2019-wrap-up/ |
The overall presentation is radically different between Magnepan and Ohm Walsh as described including treble. My newer Ohms replaced Magnepans and I have run them at the same time off the same system but in different rooms as many popular brands, B&W, Dynaudio, Triangle and currently Kef ls50s. Treble on each is different as is overall presentation but never lacking. Each will even sound different in different rooms with different placement. What is "best" will come down largely to personal preference. The Ohm Walshes tend to be more laid back and very neutral tone never drawing any special attention to specific frequencies, just the music overall. Magnepans somewhat more forward overall with unique inner detail. Kef ls50 has a lot of attack, very good detail and overall coherency like the Ohms. . Dynaudio Contour with Esotar tweeter a tad hotter sounding with some amps. Triangle Titus also very laid back, a tad thinner, but very fast and articulate overall, the most Magnepan-like tonality of the bunch. b&w P6 a warmer sound overall with very good meat on the bones in the bass like the Ohms but not great imagers. |
Yes, and having been in Carnegie Hall listening and knowing that, I would say he does a very good job. Of course, that is the reference sound but actual perspective at home will vary case by case based on the room and listening position relative to the speakers. As you move further back or more forward in the room or around in general, the perspective will change. That can only happen with the omni imaging and practically full room sweet range of Ohms and their ilk like mbl. Also the gear upstream feeding the Ohms can also have a very big effect on resulting imaging, level of detail and tonality, though you don’t need anything fancy to get just "good" sound out of the Ohms. Ohms are designed for all music lovers, not just audiophiles. Yes, I even hear those differences when I change between certain interconnects and power cords with my Ohms perhaps more so than with any of the other speakers I have ever used. They are very revealing speakers. |
My ls50s are in a small 12X12 room with a powered sub. I would not use them in a large room. My 8" and 12" Ohms are both in much larger rooms. Tweets in the standard design are angled in 45 degrees and cross well in front of my usual listening position. Sometimes I listen from a different location with more direct exposure and that tends to make things more like others that tend to have tweets facing forward. You can also angle out the Ohms for more direct sound from tweets to tip up the treble, but that tends to narrow the soundstage, so its a balancing act. I tend to not do that. My Ohm 5s have the 4 3 way frequency level adjustments, one in midrange and one in treble. Those adjustments make the big OHMs like the current 5000 very adjustable for personal preferences. There are 4 3 way level adjustments on each speak. That provides 3 to the 8th power or 6561 different combos making it easy to tune them to most any room and personal preference as needed. So I do not really perceive any lacking treble. However, I would note that I have older ears that do not hear out to 20khz anymore like they used to, so its possible others may hear things differently. For me, the unique lifelike imaging of the Ohms (also mbl) as a whole provide a much more detailed listening experience overall when set up right than conventional speakers. That applies not just in cases where speakers like Magnepan shine, ie very well recorded smaller acoustic works, but good quality big dynamic large scale recordings, like orchestra and big band, which is where I found Magnepans to be lacking prior. Laid back to me means pretty much what you said. I’ve heard large mbls set up optimally. Those tend to be similarly laid back as well. I’d say its a tendency of omni design speakers in general compared to those that fire straight at you. Magnepans fire forward and back and require a lot of distance to walls, so those are a different story all together. |
I have my 100s (8" driver in Ohm Walsh 2 cabs, same as 2000s I think) in a decent sized open concept family room with adjacent kitchen and the rest of the first floor open and adjacent to that. Amp is 60w/ch. This is my "second system" so I am willing to give up some things there compared to my main with the big Ohm 5s (12" drivers) in a moderate to large more sealed L shaped room on teh lower level driven by 500w/ch amps. I feel no need for sub in there. Neither did I with Dynaudio Contour monitors. The only thing I’d say I sacrifice that I miss sometimes with 8" Ohms in a larger area is concert level SPLs. That’s mostly because of only 60 w/ch though. It does go plenty loud we don’t realize how loud it actually is until you try to talk to someone and have to turn it down. Also I doubt the low end bass extension is as good as my bigger Ohm rig, but I can’t say its really an issue of any concern for me. No reason to not use a sub with Ohms if one thinks its needed. I’ve had Ohms since 1978 ( I still have my original Ohm Ls in my unfinished basement area) including Ohm Walsh since ~ 1982 and have never felt the need for a sub with any of them. Note I use them mostly for music. I am not a home theater guy. |
I’ve heard the GPs. Very nice but voiced different. The DDD Walsh driver does the higher frequencies but not the lower. Higher frequencies are inherently more directional than low and they need a lot of distance from walls accordingly like mbl so not practical for most. But the DDD driver does make for a much different presentation than Ohm for the higher frequencies. Whatever the frequency of the cut-over is, if you listen the Walsh driver seems to do most of the work with Ohms. Take a look at this showing what elements of music occur at which frequencies. If the Walsh driver is handling up to 7khz, it handles most of the content in music which is ideal. The higher frequencies that some can hear are mostly about harmonics, air, etc. The icing on the cake per se. Sweet is not a term I would apply to the Ohm Walsh. GP more so. https://www.reddit.com/r/classicalmusic/comments/8qxglt/musical_frequency_spectrum/ |
Overdriving is possible if speakers are way too small to do what’s desired, but I suspect you would have to go to very uncomfortable volumes in most rooms to cause damage from having them go too loud, assuming the amp is up to the task. Clipping is probably a greater risk with a lower powered amp trying to go too loud. Having said that, I’ve played all my Ohms very loud off 500w/ch amp and they never sound strained. The amp always gives up before the Ohms. Note that my current Ohms are one generation older, not current XX00 line, but hopefully those would be as robust or better. In the recent online youtube interview with Steve Guttenburg, John S. says he does not use third party drivers, rather Ohm assembles the drivers custom using purchased parts, something I was not sure about. Also I know he likes soft dome tweeters due to their dispersion pattern for use with the omnis. Conventional folded ribbon tweeters and their ilk probably would not cut it in an omni design. I’ve heard people on this thread and elsewhere say they undertook projects to upgrade and customize their Ohms Walshes with better drivers, etc. themselves but no reports of ever finishing or sharing any results. Maybe I’ll pick up a pair used on the cheap someday and give it a shot, if/when I retire. another thing to add to the bucket list.... I have done some custom upgrades to my late 70’s vintage Ohm Ls (pretty conventional box designs not Walsh) that needed some work. I put a pair of $350 used Morel woofers in those and added John’s sub bass activator circuit but I still have a way to go with those if I ever feel inclined: crossover, tweets, etc. They sound just fine in very limited use in my unfinished basement area for use during table tennis matches, etc. The bass is very good! :-) I did those upgrades prior to getting my big Ohm 5s. I almost didn't pull the trigger but glad I did. |
Directionality aside, the more conventional box speaker I have owned with high frequency tonality most like German Physiks is the Kef ls50 I run in smaller room adjacent to the big Ohm room. Triangle Titus perhaps as well. Joseph audio comes to mind at shows as speakers I enjoy a lot with similar sound. I have also run Dynaudio Contour monitors in there that more resembled the Ohm sound top to bottom. B&W perhaps to a large extent as well. Fritz Carerra speakers which I like very much also fall into this overall sonic category I would say. |
So with the Ohm Walsh design, if you want more air and high order harmonics, you might want to orient them so the tweeters provide more direct exposure at your primary listening position. Soundstage will likely narrow a bit that way as opposed to extending wall to wall. Or get the 5* models and tip up the top end with the level adjustments provided. With mbl or GP omni high frequency drivers, you can get same level of air and high order harmonics anywhere in the room IF you have a room well suited for proper imaging with full omni speakers, which means substantial distance from walls. Planars like Magnepan need that too but more so to just the rear wall. I have a framed print of that chart on the wall in my listening room. It helps me understand what I am hearing. Also as with with any speaker gotta throw in the qualifier that all rooms are different and that will largely determine the exact end results. Lively rooms will reflect more sound in different ways. My main listening room with the big Ohms is L shaped, not particularly lively. Magnepans and tower floorstanders did not shine there. The Ohms were just what the room needed. They put the music live and wall to wall located in the base of the L while I can listen from anywhere in the long portion and just the perspective on the soundstage changes.. Its like moving from one seat to another in a cozy Jazz club. The Village Vanguard is the well known one I’ve experienced that comes to mind. |
Yea Mr Guttenburg did not have time to get set up right or could have been listening for the wrong center location if not a solid center image. That’s an Ohm strength. Mine is rock solid center of wall, but not center between speakers. That’s another omni difference. Mono recordings never sounded better so I am able to enjoy any recording from any era: a music lover’s dream. Good mono recordings are anchored dead center but with ambience that actually still provides a lifelike sound stage but with players dead center. On a related note, not to confuse things but my Ohm100s run off the Bel Canto c5i actually sound more like GP in the highs to me these days than my 5s. They both have same generation walsh drivers just different size. The difference is the integrated amp. I’ve run both of various amps and its the C5i digital integrated amp that does the trick. So all the gear upstream matters a lot and results can vary widely. You hear what you feed the Ohms more so than just the speaker itself. |
Just to clarify in my L shaped room my Ohms are both to the right of center of the rear wall. Stereo imaging is wall to wall. For mono recordings the center image is left of the left speaker...yes you heard right the center image is to the left of both speakers not in in between the two speakers. It’s another unique omni thing. |
I have my similar size (to 2000s) Ohms in a much larger area. Listening to them as I type. You should be fine. Can’t beat living close to the shop. https://photos.app.goo.gl/12N92gFkrA7kLTo47 |
Those are 100 series 3 drivers (8", circa 2008, one version older design than current) in original refurbed Walsh 2 cabinets. I picked them up here on Agon. I run them off a Bel CAnto c5i 60w/ch digital integrated amp that can be seen in the cabinet to the right. I’ll post a pic of my big Ohm F5’s. I bought those from Ohm going full in immediately after testing the waters with the 100s. These are same generation 12" drivers with level adjustments on original Ohm F cabinets, similar to current Ohm 5000s. I run them off 500 w/ch Bel Canto ref1000m amps and this combo is the bomb. https://photos.app.goo.gl/M4dhdodh4DSnKJF17 |
Nice to hear. I use 60w/ch into 8ohm Bel Canto c5i all digital, Class D integrated amp with my smaller 100s. I use mhdt Constantine SS DAC on my main system with the larger 5s. AMp is Bel Canto ref1000m 500w/ch 8ohm and an Audio Research sp16 tube pre-amp. I had both Constantine and mhdt Paradisea tube dac to compare at one time. Both BC Class D amps double power into 4 ohm. THe less powerful Icepower module used in the c5i is one generation newer than that used in the ref1000m I believe. Both Ohms ( 5 with 12" driver and 100 with 8" driver) are series 3 CLS driver, 1 generation prior to current. The sound of each is quite a bit different. The c5i imparts a most neutral and airy sound, more like that you hear from Quad or ML electrostats but with better dynamics. 60 watts get them to the mid-upper 80s db SPL at the listening position in a large open area no problem. My larger main system tends to have a tad of warmth through the midrange. I would attribute that mostly to the ARC tube pre-amp, but can’t say for sure. The onboard tone controls on the 5s provide a lot of flexibility to adjust the sound to any particular room and pair of ears. This setup goes louder easily up to mid 90-100db SPL, as loud as I would ever care to go, in a moderately large size L shaped room. https://photos.app.goo.gl/96SbeuZEWj5ueG8T8 |