objective vs. subjective rabbit hole


There are many on this site who advocate, reasonably enough, for pleasing one’s own taste, while there are others who emphasize various aspects of judgment that aspire to be "objective." This dialectic plays out in many ways, but perhaps the most obvious is the difference between appeals to subjective preference, which usually stress the importance of listening, vs. those who insist on measurements, by means of which a supposedly "objective" standard could, at least in principle, serve as arbiter between subjective opinions.

It seems to me, after several years of lurking on and contributing to this forum, that this is an essential crux. Do you fall on the side of the inviolability of subjective preference, or do you insist on objective facts in making your audio choices? Or is there some middle ground here that I’m failing to see?

Let me explain why this seems to me a crux here. Subjective preferences are, finally, incontestable. If I prefer blue, and you prefer green, no one can say either of us is "right." This attitude is generous, humane, democratic—and pointless in the context of the evaluation of purchase alternatives. I can’t have a pain in your tooth, and I can’t hear music the way you do (nor, probably, do I share your taste). Since this forum exists, I presume, as a source of advice from knowledgable and experienced "audiophiles" that less "sophisticated" participants can supposedly benefit from, there must be some kind of "objective" (or at least intersubjective) standard to which informed opinions aspire. But what could possibly serve better as such an "objective standard" than measurements—which, and for good reasons, are widely derided as beside the point by the majority of contributors to this forum?

To put the question succinctly: How can you hope to persuade me of any particular claim to audiophilic excellence without appealing to some "objective" criteria that, because they claim to be "objective," are more than just a subjective preference? What, in short, is the point of reading all these posts if not to come to some sort of conclusion about how to improve one’s system?

snilf

Showing 7 responses by djones51

Music speak without assumptions like God speak....They are self sustaining realities...

Music is a reality, God is an assumption. 

To me the biggest problem with talks  from people like Arthur M Young is they begin their argument with assumptions. His first assumption is humans have a spirt, the second ESP exists. It's like discussing God with a priest, I might as well be discussing unicorns or Tea Pots orbiting Mars. 

Which is why I have dual FR speaker system, FR at 92db-95db, always out performs any and all woofer/tweeter system. Higher sens makes superior fidelity.

Not to me. Active speakers using DSP crossovers and controlled directivity makes superior fidelity. There isn’t a passive speaker that can compete with the newest active speaker designs at least using superior fidelity as a goal line. 

Yes, it's possible to talk without assumptions. Consciousness isnt an assumption, saying consciousness is spirt or soul or a part of some God or the other is. 

The bad point is you think consciousness is a fact distinct from soul, spirit or God..

Why is this bad? I know I'm conscious, we understand consciousness exists. We may not agree on every specific definition, the others, spirit, soul, God we haven't the slightest idea if they exist. They're ideas, things we made up. 

@mahgister 

You're always tossing Nobel Prize winners around like skittles. Francis Crick won the Nobel here's what he says about it. Is he  dumb? Not know what he's talking about? Great winner of numerous prizes? 

 

The Astonishing Hypothesis is that “You,” your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behaviour of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll’s Alice might have phrased it: “You’re nothing but a pack of neurons.”

I don’t really believe we have free will nor is there an overarching design but that’s a different discussion.