Thanks for all the inputs! |
Thanks for all the input! |
Well Ted, I'm not certain about it. I do know that the general reason for using an inverted bearing is to improve the platter center-of-gravity, with respect to the way the side-thrust forces are resolved. However, the inverted bearing typically doesn't allow the use of an oil sump, which is preferred when possible. The Teres bearing uses a unique geometry which gives good center of gravity and the use of an oil sump, and was developed to improve upon the idea of the inverted bearing. Whether it is actually any better than the VPI HRX bearing, I don't know for sure.
I suggested it because Teres already has a wood platter system that would just drop-on with their bearing, making it an easy switch. Perhaps you can get your wood platter made by Pierre, and have what you want. |
Tom, thanks for the advice.
I don't know if I repeat myself here, but my latest version of update includes the new inverted bearing that is used in the $10.000 VPI HR-X, TT. It is made from the best quality materials from what I read in vpi's literature. Do you think that the TERES would still be better? The wood platter idea is compelling! I will pursue it further with Mapleshade, if Pierre can make me a maple laminated platter about 2-3" thick I would be interested to try it. |
Don't get me wrong 4yanx, I am and I was, satisfied by the sound. But I have been bitten by the audiophilia nervosa bug and can't stop looking for better!
The problem here is that after a high degree of refinement the sound of my system gets "better" only incrementally and only in certain areas, it could be said that my sound changes and that there are trade off's, for example: I've got better definition and faster and more precise presentation at the expense of opulent, romantic and fault forgiving sound. So some records I used to like don't sound as rich, but others that I did not, have revealed hidden information in their grooves, I did not know it existed. |
Ted, a good improvement of the platter would be higher on the upgrade scale than a power conditioning upgrade. However, you do have to remember that the main bearing at the center of the TT is the most important part of the TT, and that is what will ultimately limit how far you can go with any given TT. What you may want to consider, is to get the Teres bearing and platter as a combination package. They make it available separately like that. The strobe pattern will already be printed on the bottom, so when you later decide to upgrade to the DC motor/controller, you can easily do it. This would really then make your TT a Teres with a different plinth. Or you could just buy the bearing separately and make a platter out of wood, yourself. The Teres main bearing is only a little over $200. That's cheap.
Alternatively, you could stick with an AC motor and use a Walker Motor Controller, which will condition/regenerate your power, control your speeds, and improve the sound to what you currently own. |
Tphalieros, if you have gone theough 4 incarnations of upscale TT's and are not yet satisifed with your sound, I'd have interest to know what is the rest of your system. Chances are it isn't the platter. This cannot continue! :-) |
Twl and 4yanx, those exotic TT platters HAVE to sound better than my HR-X vpi acrylic platter, I am tired of changing stuff, in less than 2 years I have gone through 4 incarnations of upscale model TT's. Cocobolo platter? dream on Theo! I don't know where to put my money now, to the wood platter or to an extra Power Conditioner of a passive nature, like the Hydra?. ( Michael Fremer uses a PS 300 plus the Hydra.) |
I believe that the very earliest vesions of the Interspace were all-wood in design, including the platter. Now, the platter of the Interspace is made of HDF with bronze perimeter weighting. The Spacedeck platter is of an alloy with perimeter damping. The Hyperspace has an alloy "sub" platter with a 25mm graphite "top" platter. The Anna has a gravity-spun cast iron "sub" platter with the same 25mm "top" platter. In addition, the plinth of the Anna is made from layers of pitch pine laminated into a spiral. It looks like a log - thus Anna Log! :-)
There is currently a thick graphite mat available for the Spacedeck, and Interspace, at the tune of about $280. |
Some of the lower end Nottinghams have HDF platters, not wood. I have never heard of a real wood platter on a Nottingham. The new Teres 265 has a real wood platter made of Cocobolo wood laminated for stability, that is nearly three inches thick. I have not heard this platter yet, but it is claimed to be awesome. |
4yanks, does this dealer live in California? I can't see any east coast hawkish dealers doing that comparisson if their lives depended on it!! I am dying to hear the TERES against my custom made maple base TT.(see: "VPI redesigning experiment") on the Analog site.
By the way, a local record shop has a notingham TT with a wooden platter, I have never heard that before, does anybody know about that and it's resulting sound? |
4yanx, that's a great shop that will enable a customer to compare several cart's before buying. When I was shopping around DC, I couldn't even find a shop that could solo audition just one of the cart's I had in mind - and most couldn't audition any at all. I had to wind up buying my Glider M2 by telephone based solely on the advice of a few distant dealers. I'm not hoping for any better should I ever decide the bite the bullet about upgrading my current TT. Thanks for sharing the results of your comparitive listening sessions. |
Twl, one word. Fabulous. I may upgrade to this config eventually before a table upgrade (Spacedeck/Spacearm/Shelter 501). I am not fully convinced that the extra bucks for the 901, as opposed to the 501, is justified in all cases, however. While the 901 was outstanding there is a certain richness to the 501 that is hard to put into words. If you are into solo stringed instruments or piano and/or small ensemble-type groups of any kind, the 501 might be all you'll ever need. I am half tempted to buy another in the event they ever go out of production! :-)
As aside, I did a comparison of the 501 to SEVERAL other cartridges (most costing MUCH more) at the same shop mentioned above before opting for the 501 for my table.
OK, I knew I couldn't make a post with just one word! HA! |
4yanx, how did you like that Illustrious tonearm and the 901 cartridge? |
My recommendations would be that IF you decide to go with a Teres TT, then get one of the models with the wood base. I feel that is one of the most important aspects in improving the sound of this brand of TT, over the acrylic base 100 series. All the Teres models are good, but there is quite a large improvement in the wood base models, and I recommend starting there, and staying away from the acrylic base models, unless there is an extreme budget crunch, and you should even then plan to upgrade to the wood base ASAP.
4yanx, that was a very enlightening report of the comparisons of those tables you mentioned. I'm glad to hear of reports like this, because there is still not enough info going around about how the Teres fares against the other better quality tables out there. Thanks for reporting that.
Also, bearing in mind that the Nottingham tables are well known for providing excellent performance at the price, I feel that both they and the Teres have shown that they are in the "giant killer" category. I'd say as the Teres retails for about $1k less than the Hyperspace, it is still tops on my "high value" list. But you have to look at that Spacedeck at retail $1700 as a great deal too.
I just shows that excellent analog performance does not have to cost "an arm and a leg". |
I dunno, I think, and I'm sure some will disagree, that to truly compare tables you should listen with the same arm/pickup combination.
I guy I know locally who has run a mostly analog shop for many years and knows the guys who designed the Teres did an after-hours comparison for a bunch of us recently. He got a 255 for his personal comparative purposes. Doubt you'll find another dealer who will PUBLICLY do such a comparison lest he lose business to this fine table that is sold direct.
Anyway, we compared the 255 to a Clearaudio Champion, 'Not Spacedeck, 'Not Hyperspace, and a Michell Orbe all using an Origin Live Illustrious and a Shelter 901 run through very high end Air Tight stuff and an Aesthetix IO phono stage. He said he picked these tables because they facilitated a quick exchange of the arm/pickup combo and because the other four were the best selling tables in his "upper-mid" market. Even at that, we were there all night and into the next morning light.
With out boring everyone with details (though there are many), we all generally thought the Hyperspace and the Teres were neck-and-neck, then the Spacedeck, a handful of cat's whiskers back (but not as far behind as one might think based on price), then the Michell a good bit farther back, and finally the Clearaudio. A couple preferred either the Teres or the Hyperspace and a couple ranked the Clearaudio over the Michell (though I was definitely NOT one of those).
In any case, this was not a fully controlled comparison, to the extent that such is possible, but it was a rare opportunity (at least for me) to compare tables (especially with the Teres involved). Tweaks, DC motors, cables, platters, etc. will result in differing performances, to be sure.
To me, the Teres was very detailed but, at the same time, analog "involving". I would take issue with those that would claim the Teres lacks in dynamics - it's a GREAT table in virtually all respects.
I guess all of this babbling leads me to me point. Try the tables YOURSELF, if at all possible. Do not base your decision solely on what I, or others, might say. Use YOU ear and buy what sounds best to YOU.
Sorry, the mention of the Teres 255 does not really address your question with respect to the 135 or 150, with which I am not familiar. If you decide to go the Teres route, I'm sure Tom (Twl) will be of great assistance to you with any questions or issue you might have. |
i auditioned a spacedeck before settling on my teres 255. (soon to be 265 - platter on the way)
i thought that the teres had better detail, extension, and timing.
the spacedeck, surprisingly to me, had slightly better overall dynamics. (hopefully the new platter will bring it up to the level of the nottingham)
they are both excellent decks, but i found the teres to be the more satisfying of the two. |
