No deep bass or highs: VTF or VTA issue?


Background:

I've been using JM Lab Micro Utopia monitors and recently added a sub (via Bryston outboard crossover). Used my music server to dial in the sub (for convenience) and after dialing it in I noticed that my analog rig is not sounding anywhere as good as my digital.

I tried comparing a few LPs to their digital counterparts and in comparison the LPs sounded dark and sluggish.

Relevant equipment:

Analog:
- Dynavector XV-1s
- Scoutmaster / JMW 9 Signature / SDS / Super platter etc
- Aesthetix Rhea Signature with NOS tubes

Digital:
Music server -> Benchmark DAC

I used a Mint tractor to align the cartridge, and the VTF on the XV-1s is around 2.0g. I had never done anything about VTA, so I tried raising it. It got somewhat brighter, but now in comparison it lacks deep bass AND the highs of the digital version. Switching back and forth it's like the vinyl is just midrange (that's an exaggeration to illustrate my point).

I also have a Manley Steelhead phono stage; I should probably swap that with the Rhea to make sure the phono stage isn't the culprit but my gut tells me that it's the setup.

Any advice on what adjustments to try would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
madfloyd

Showing 3 responses by dougdeacon

Many good observations already.

Dan's Rhea (which he, Swampwalker and I all heard in my system) was indeed limited at the frequency extremes and that may be what you're experiencing. Two friends who've compared Aesthetix and Steelhead reported a stronger (though somewhat "steely") top end from the Manley. Tighter, less "rosey" sounding tubes might help, though I've no experience rolling tubes in a Rhea.

I agree with Dan that the XV-1S is certainly not inherently dark or rolled off. I've only heard 2 or 3 cartridges with a more open and clear top end. Question: is your stylus REALLY clean? A mucked up stylus will sound subdued or dark exactly as you described.

As Dan also suggested, you may be playing with a hair too much downforce (and perhaps antiskating too, if you're applying any). Either or both of these can smother the top end of a good LOMC. A dealer visit might help, but learning to fine tune yourself by ear is essential - unless you're going to pay the dealer to visit weekly. Cartridges at this level require regular attention to perform at their best. The link Rushton provided is very useful.

Alternatively, try setting/twisting antiskating to near zero, then take VTF down to near the mistracking point (or until bass/dynamics weaken slightly). Then bring VTF back up in TINY increments (.02g or less) until bass and dynamics are strong, but HF's haven't start rolling off. That VTF should be optimal but it may change over time or even with the weather, so you may need to adjust from time to time.

All this said, I'm afraid your table and arm are not going to provide the HF extension, speed and clarity of the highest quality digital or a top level table/arm. Not even a hotrodded HRX + JMW 12.x can do that. It's possible that making these comparisons is training your ears to recognize that. We all know where this leads, so stop comparing or be prepared to receive ever more costly advice from your fellow 'goners! ;-)
Ian,

Excellent advice from Dre. Just trying 1.80g isn't enough, since no two cartridges are exactly alike. You need to keep going lower until you loose bass/dynamics and/or reach the mistracking point, then start moving VTF back up in very small (.01-.02g) increments.

Mistracking sounds like:
- if slight - a trace of fuzziness on strong, high frequency notes
- if severe - short bursts of static-like noise, like high frequency “farts” (sorry!), provided that they’re in synch with dynamic peaks or strongly held notes and not in synch with LP revolutions (which would tend to indicate pressing flaws in the vinyl)

Al,

If Ian's tonearm mounting distance weren't right he would know it. With an arc protractor like the Mint the stylus either tracks precisely along an arc or it doesn't. If it does, tonearm mounting distance is correct by definition.

Ian,

As Swampwalker confirmed, your suspicion is correct. For any given cartridge mounting position, moving the armtube away from level shortens overhang while moving it toward level lengthens overhang, as you figured.

Therefore, before using ANY cartridge alignment protractor we should adjust arm height (and VTF) to approximate normal playing values WITH THE STYLUS SITTING ON THE SURFACE OF THE PROTRACTOR.

With the Mint this means raising the arm, since the Mint is thicker than most (all?) LP's. Do your setup and then return the arm to its normal height for LP play.

That said, I doubt this is the cause of your lack of "air". I had plenty of air before acquiring my Mint. Using it improved other things, but not really this.