Hi, yes, I should've mentioned the Sphinx does have a phono preamp, and I've read it's supposed to be quite good, but I'm wondering if something is not right/damaged. I have some rare A16 Audio Euridia "bookshelf" speakers, 89db 100w. I put bookshelf in parenthesis because while they're smallish, they're pretty high end and bass dips down low. As mentioned previously they do sound full and rich with the CD player.
Something has to be wrong here, my sister's Crosley sounds better than my set up. I'm going to try some new vinyl today and see if that does something. |
Wow, a TON of info to start with, thank you. Lewm was asking above the cart and tone arm: Ortofon Red as I mentioned, and the unit comes stock with a supposedly decent carbon fiber tone arm. I'm going to really re check the cart cables and everything else in the set up. It's new and "pre installed". Despite controversial :) comments above, I feel my unit should at least be in the same ball park with regards to dynamic response. I'm aware that $500 doesn't get you very far in the TT world, so I wasn't expecting too much let's say, but there is a HUGE lack of bass and mid bass. Kind of disturbing as I imagine there must be a problem. I am going to pop on some more vinyl this evening, as I've only played a few, and they're older music and presses (Eagles, Michael Jackson, Journey), but I have some brand new Melody Gardot, Gregory Porter, Joe Walsh, and Lightnin Hopkins. Not sure if any of those will be pressed by a good factory and have better bass/mid bass?
To answer a couple questions, I have the tracking force set at the recommended 17.5, and played with that just to see if bass would magically appear. The anti skate that came with it is in the middle notch, and not sure what its weight is. The manual says 47ohms for the factory cart, and Rogue Audio says 47ohm loading, 150pF, and compatible with 2mV and above carts. I see an alignment "tool" or paper diagram rather in the manual which I will check in an hour or so too, but have no protractor or other tools. Looks like I might need some. I will check those specs mapman wrote above.
So far I do love the look/feel of vinyl again, all the fidgeting and cleaning gadgets, looks pretty on the audio cabinet, but I'd love a little fuller sound for sure. Realistically I'm not looking at replacing my CDP, but wanted vinyl for oldies, jazz, ska, blues, that type of stuff. Can't wait to try some of the suggestions above...
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Ok, results! After reading all the suggestions yesterday I decided to come home and completely re set-up everything from start to finish, but with even more attention to detail. Right off the bat upon someone's suggestion, I did notice the tiny red cart cable partially out, so I pressed that all the way back in. I continued to go through everything else, got out the level, ruler, magnifying glass, etc and really tried to get it right. Then I let the unit run the rest of the evening on low volume while I watched TV, just thinking of someone's comment about maybe needing more break-in.
Today I pulled out a brand new out-of-the-cellophane LP and started her up. Wow, what a difference, dynamics there, soundstage, the bass/mid bass there, something happened in a good way. The problem is, it's kind of inconclusive as I'm not sure what I did that fixed it. I have a hunch it might have been that cable, but then it might be a combination of things. I put the old Eagles album back on and definitely noticed that the older pressed vinyl was inferior. Very noticeable. Bummer as I have more "oldies" on the way from eBay that will probably sound inferior. The music is really enjoyable now and makes up for a first evening of regret and anticlimax listening. I know the break-in is controversial but I imagine it might improve with more time. Now that I think about it, I did receive a discount for an open box unit, which leads me to believe my TT may have been "tampered" with previously.
Someone above inquired which cables I was using, they are just the stock Pro-ject cables, is there a consensus that replacing them helps? Any recommendations? Tweaking is just a nature of the beast in this hobby and I would love to improve them. The rest of my system uses Audioquest, but I'm open to anything. I've read they should be TT specific cables.
I'm going to let this unit burn in for another 40-50 hours and then make a decision how deep to delve into things. As someone mentioned above, the point of diminishing returns is knocking at the door. I'm really enjoying the Rogue Audio amp as well (had a Bryston bp60 for 17 years).
Thanks again for your help. The wife isn't home yet and I'm going straight in the listening room to crank some tunes....
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Hi mapman, I had thought about trying out each adjustment/tweak to find the problem, but had it in my mind I wanted to do it all over again anyhow. Probably should've tried it out after the cart cable find though. I was surprised when I realized I hadn't seen that before. I wish this table had VTA adjustments, doesn't seem like the arm sits perfectly parallel to the platter. It's almost like the factory sets it for the presumably thinner metal platter, but the thicker acrylic platter looks higher/taller. Nothing too big though, just a mm or two.
In the end I'm not sure why I wanted a new TT without a collection of vinyl as you have, could have upgraded my current CDP and bought a ton of CDs instead. I'm still not 100% sure it was the most sensible decision! Curiosity, searching for more enjoyment, and just an excuse to spend more money on the hobby I suppose. It sure makes the decision difficult when buying used music, $4 for a CD, $24 for a crackly, popping unknown quality of an LP!
Johnnyb53, did you find all those tweaks made a difference? Do you have the original/stock tonearm and RCA cables?
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Hi Lewn, yes actually playing, needle to the LP. Looking back at your original post the tonearm is actually exactly as you suggested, ever so slightly slanted back. I think you're right about the break-in. Again today I'm just letting the player go on low with a new record just to see if some more play time helps out. It does seem to be getting better with time. I'll sit down for a listen in a couple hours.
I do think a combo of readjusting, the cart cable out slightly, and the newer LP the other night helped out quite noticeably. The first few LP's were just crazy lean sounding. |
Very interesting stringreen and terry9, do you find certain press co or time frames or genres to be better than others? It's certainly reassuring knowing there's good, old, quiet vinyl out there. I really got into this as I'm interested in finding old blues and classic rock, maybe some R&B and disco even. Seems like those were just meant to be listened to on a TT. I'm really liking the new vinyl I've just opened though. The Gregory Porter I opened yesterday felt much thicker and heavier than others too. I like terry9's suggestion, I'm going to fork up the cash and buy 10 brand new great albums.
As terry9 suggests, I think I need to spend some time cleaning the albums I've aquired. I did purchase the Record Cleaner MKII, and of course a felt pad and needle brush, but I wonder if I should take that a step further.
Dkarmeli, I suppose price is relevant. The Esprit DC is no VPI Scout by any means, but it's not a Crosley either. It fits in with my system and budget, and I can at least upgrade the cart down the line. I'm not sure what type of bass a much higher priced unit would give. I'm not a bass head or looking for exaggerated bass, I just want to hear what's supposed to be there, naturally. I've went to considerable length and cost to have natural bass in my system.
Inna, what type of cable do you recommend?
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Holy moly terry9, to the non-audiophile that might sound borderline whacky! That's quite a cleaning process, but I understand. It's all part of the fun, almost ceremonial process of vinyl listening. I have a nice little collection of tobacco pipes and enjoy the process of smoking occasionally, and often relate listening to vinyl and smoking a pipe. I felt lazy about using my new Spin Clean, but I feel embarrassed now after hearing your process. You don't have one of those Nitty Gritty units do you? I imagine your cleaning gear is worth more than my entire TT set up.
I also noticed in another post you mentioned Bryston, do you have one? |
Gosh terry9, "unstable" was just a tip of the iceberg. I'd love to see your entire system. It sounds like you are, how should I say, deep into it. I fully agree with your assessment of Bryston. I don't believe I've owned anything whatsoever for 17 years, much less an electronic component. 2 years ago, which is 15 years after buying the unit, sent it in for a little check up, Bryston replaced the entire front faceplate and knobs gratis because a little paint was coming off the name, the guy says that wasn't suppose to happen. Exemplary product. In fact I'm having a hard time parting with it and now planning a completely un-needed second system for somewhere in the house based around the old Bryston. Although in my heart I really wanted a second "fantasy" system to be pure tubes, just for contrast. Interesting you've went to Class A, as I see many manufacturers going to Class D, like a Bel Canto, Peachtree, Wyred, etc.
I couldn't decide so I went with a hybrid.
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If you have tiny pliers something like in Leatherman pocket tool I’d carefully
remove all cartridge clips and crimp them slightly more to make sure that they provide nice and tight connection to the cartridge pins. Be super careful not to rip them off the headshell and always use pliers when taking off and fitting back on. I’d also check carefully alignment and properly set-up VTF with tools to check and fix manufacturer or dealer negligent setup. If you go to turntablebasics.com, you’ll be able to find basic tools to properly align cartridge and tracking weight. With new wires I’d work on research first. I don’t know any market for outboard interconnects with thin gauge for turntable. Basically you’d want the same thickness of wires as going out from your arm on the interconnects. You’d also want minimal per-unit capacitance of wire, because for the MM cartridge it’s crucial and not so for MC. For your reference, find out the electrical parameters of the stock interconnects you’re using from manufacturer.
Years back they used to be available in conventional electronic stores with ground wire attached, now I’ve seen some on internet (needledoctor) at price tag 4x higher than your whole analogue setup. If you don’t want to tense your wallet and save a lot without loosing performance of your system, I use http://www.gepco.com/products/proav_cable/analog_audio/singdual_xband_F.htm. This cable is easy to fit safely onto the RCA jacks and provides low-to-no noise signal transfer with great dynamics. I’m sure that it will outperform your stock interconnects if properly terminated. For best results use http://www.parts-express.com/neutrik-nf2c-b-2-profi-professional-rca-plug-pair--092-114 Neutrik Pro-Fi connectors that are very easy to terminate and lockable. Great info and links, thanks! I opened them, looks like great stuff, the spark has been fueled to improve the cabling. Perfect mod for the table. And at a good time, get this - after the last loose cable incident, last night I was listening to an LP and noticed a buzzing hum during quiet passages, drove me crazy turning things on and off throughout the house, nothing. Finally directed my attention to the TT, dreaded the infamous hum I’ve read about but supposedly gone with this model, fiddled with the RCA cable in back of the unit and whamo, instantly gone. Strangely it wasn’t the ground cable. So, regardless of sound quality I’m going to replace all the cabling for the table, just to make sure it is absolutely right. I wonder if it would be a good idea to just do 1 long run from the cart to the amp and bypass the inner connection of tonearm to RCA? |
Wetfeet, I like Class A. Profligate use of power, but commensurately clean sound. With ESL's you really hear it.
[Heresy alert] By the way, my electronics are all solid state, full complementary designs. The electronics may not sound the best, but the system does. That is because the amps can be designed so that they cannot overdrive the speakers into protection - and that means that performance robbing protection circuits are necessary, and if present, can be removed with impunity.
Which explains the paradox: even if the amps are not the absolute best, the system as a whole has been optimized.
Very interesting and ambitious quest terry9, as it would seem darn near impossible to improve upon the characteristics of the Bryston. That's quite an accomplishment, would love to hear your system and compare the sonic qualities to my (now) Class D/tube hybrid. |
I know it's been over a month since anyone was on this thread but I thought I'd mention I had continuing problems with the crappy included interconnects, mostly ground hum and a loose inner connection at the RCA point. Just by touching it I would get crackling etc. So in the end I opted to order a pretty economical cable as opposed to making it, as I had planned. It was all of 40 bucks from a flea bay seller who mostly markets them towards Thoren users for some reason. They were considerably thicker yet flexible, shielded, and very nice Neutrik connectors. The surprising thing is that after installing the cable, and I thought it would just stop the crackling/him, the bass was much better, and everything quiet. I'm not starting a cable debate or saying everyone should buy expensive cables, but I will say a good quality, well made cable seems much better than the bottom of the barrel cheapo that often comes with gear. Personally, I'd rather just pay a little more upfront for a better interconnect.
So I think between the two cable/connection problems, I've come full swing from an initial feeling of buyer's remorse, to thoroughly enjoying the table at this point. Toe tapping fun. |
