Niagara 5000 Vs Torus RM20 or PS Audio Power Plant 12

@gdnrbob , thanks for this!  
 

Hoping to at least be able to do a bake-off between Torus and Niagara.  I obviously can easily get the Audioquest demo from my local dealer, but I’ll need to check with a different dealer to see if a Torus demo is an option.  If not, I’m almost willing to do a blind purchase IF the Niagara 5000 doesn’t do everything I want.  These products  are in high demand; worst case scenario I’ve paid a premium to rule out conditioners in my system (still leaves an option for PS regenerators though).

For reference- my amp is a Gryphon Diablo 300.

I’m fine with vendors saying what they want, we should be smart enough to filter out any good advice from the shilling!  Just wish it was as easy to filter out the noise on my AC line…

heh, that was terrible, sorry!

@jpan, yes I think that’s accurate. While Audioquest themselves are very generous with demos in my experience, today I simply ordered the Dragon HC 20A version that would work with the Niagara 5000’s 20A input.

I based this decision on getting much, much more interested in either the Torus RM 20, or the Torus AVR Elite 20, based on everything I’ve read (everyone with experience with these specifically notes the added detail and openness which is exactly what I’m after). That said, with the new Dragon cord, after it arrives and is broken in, I can try both the Niagara and hopefully I can demo the Torus as well. If I’m blown away with the Niagara I’ll go with that, but if not, I have the Torus option as a backup.

By the way, Torus told me there is no need for the higher level AVR Elite model if I don’t need voltage correction. They said if my line voltage stays within 116-124V at various points of the day over several days, I can stick with their lower end RM 20, which is significantly cheaper than the Niagara 5000. To test my voltage, they directed me to a $50 easy-to-use device on Amazon, a Kill-A-Watt meter which can read out the line voltage with the amp plugged into it (and the meter plugged into the wall). I placed an order for one.

I have a hunch that the Niagara 5000 or the Torus will work for me. If neither work I can always look for any other conditioner options with 20A input power sockets, or look at splurging on the highest end PS-Audio regenerator. But that behemoth just looks like overkill for my shelf and my wallet!

I think it’s unlikely one of these options won’t work for me which is why I just went ahead with the purchase of the Dragon 20A. Worst case scenario I lose some cash and I sell the cord.

One last thing about Torus that I think speaks volumes - when I asked Nordost about conditioners, it turned out Nordost has VERY strong views on this subject.  In that, they recommend against them.  They seem to have a view that something gets lost when you use conditioners.  However, they specifically made an exception for Torus products!

@gwng8 , maybe you have good clean power, making conditioning unnecessary, and making the Torus do nothing?  
 

I can tell my power is clean after midnight, my system becomes downright holographic.  If adding a Torus did nothing to my sound when the power is clean, I’d be fine with that.  I’m trying to get to a point where I get that post-midnight sound any time of day… Seriously, the sound I get at night just makes me want to listen to stuff endlessly - everything I throw at my system sounds so detailed and engaging, and the soundstage just unfurls in every direction.  I can even hear the difference at lower volumes, which is needed in those hours.  It’s amazing but also I will be disappointed if I can’t find a way to make my system perform like this consistently!  As someone else said, this is the price of upgrading my system to be this resolving.  I definitely didn’t notice this difference until I got my Valhalla 2 speaker cables.  At first, I thought that maybe my first impressions of the Valhalla 2’s were overblown when I listened to them a second time.  But quickly realized the pattern of increased performance late at night.  By far the worst time is just before and during dinner time.

@gwng8 , just finished watching that video you linked - thanks for that, I enjoyed it. Good perspective. Without being an electrical engineer myself I do wonder if there are other ways of testing/sampling etc that might yield different conclusions.

If this dude is to be believed and all conditioners / regenerators are useless as proven by his measurements, then I am simply doomed to having poorer sound during the day! Or maybe I need to go back to my less resolving speaker cables and live in blissful ignorance….

If I’m ever buying a new home in the future, I can see myself saying to the realtor “Yes but what is the total harmonic distortion coming in on the AC lines”….

I’ll look into that line noise eliminator. Some audio equipment vendors also have devices purported to do this (Shunyata has their inexpensive Venom Defender which simply plugs into a spare socket on the same circuit as your audio gear).

Regarding the Audiosciencereview video, he also tested bands within the audible range and presented it as proof that the PS Audio PP-12 actually makes the sound worse. I read another report he did “proving” that Audioquest’s Niagara 1200 was utterly useless, and even as a surge protector was not well-designed.

Regarding his theory that our brains trick us into hearing the improvements, well my initial finding of the Niagara 5000 with the NRG-1000 cable sounding worse in the mids and uppers hopefully suggests that I lean at least to a more objective assessment of the sound. I honestly don’t have any strong faith that the Niagara or Torus conditioners when paired with a high end Dragon power cord will do anything for me. I’ll admit I WANT them to work though!

Another example - I just recently realized that my Audioquest Diamond USB cable between my Innuos streamer and my InnuOS reclocker sounds inferior to the generic cable that came with the reclocker, with the generic cable sounding a tad more open and detailed! Note that without the reclocker and plugging the USB directly into the DAC, this is not the case and the AQ USB cable wins. But just goes to show that ears can seem to be objective in some cases too.

@audioquest4life , I recently demoed the Sigma V2 NR and the Omega QR and commented in another thread. I found the Sigma to be slightly harsh in the upper mids, but only noticeable after extended listening. The sigmas were very “detail forward”. However, the Sigma demo had a 20-to-15A adapter as Shunyata didn’t have any 15A demo’s on hand, so I do wonder if that had a negative impact.

The Omega QR surprised me as it had a totally different presentation - buttery smooth, more refined, slightly warm, but still with all the detail.

Ultimately went with Audioquest Dragon HC not because I thought it sounded better (was more energetic/lively than the Omega - not better or worse, just different). But rather, because the Omega came with a yellow plastic tab to try to make the connection with my amplifier tight. It didn’t make a secure connection, and I thought that was a bit cheesy with the yellow tab.

The Dragon on my system is maybe a bit more rock and roll with more energized rhythm and bass, and with more forward but smooth detail (not as bright as the Sigma was). The Omega QR might be better for jazz, etc. But both would be great sounding with any music.

Regarding the conditioning tech in the Omega QR, it is very basic I think. It was not that noticeable at all, and even Shunyata told me a 3X Sigma V2 NR with a Denali conditioner would beat 2 X Omega QR with no conditioner for my source equipment. If you only need mild conditioning maybe it would be fine.