Next best exponential DAC quality level?


I recently did a shoot out of three DACs using my Hint6 + routing each of the other DACs to analog input on the Hint6:

(1) Hint6: ESS Sabre32 -- Integrated 

(2) SMSL M500: ES9038PRO D/A   ~$400 

(3) Khadas ToneBoard(v1): ESS ES9038Q2M - ~$99

I played the same song passages on Amazon Music and was able to cycle through each Hint6 input corresponding to each DAC.

The result?  Very small difference in terms of rendering.  Maybe a more open sound stage with better overall balance using the Hint6 DAC.  The Khadas was more bass / midrange pronounced w/ a more narrow soundstage.  However, I wouldn't suggest that any were head-and-shoulders "better" over the others.  In fact, they were all pretty decent with only small nuances (certainly not worth the price differences.   

I decided to keep the Khadas for my small headphone listening area. 

But it got me thinking - how much would one have to spend to realize an exponential difference in quality?  Is the Khadas that good, or is DAC technology differences more nuanced than I originally thought (meaning, we're paying 10x for only 5% better).  

 

martinman

Showing 6 responses by martinman

To answer a few questions:
Speakers: Kef LS50 w/ dual PSA subwoofer

Speaker Wire: Mogami DIY cables

Integrated: Hint6

AmazonHD: The source content is what they call "Ultra HD" (24/192) and I was able to verify that it was being passed at the highest bitrate.

I think I have a sufficiently capable system to discern any differences. Truth is, I did pickup subtle differences, but again the differences aren’t quite worth the cost of entry (IMO). I also fully expect that my ear just isn’t tuned properly to pickup the differences... Which might be a good thing :)

In most other upgrades: amp, speakers, speaker wire, TT cart, TT upgrades I’m able to pick out something ’better’ whether it’s more detail, lower noise floor,etc. With DACs it’s def. more subtle.

I guess I’m surprised at my observations -- and maybe lesson learned!

My next attempt will be with more capable DACs: Denafrips, Border Patrol, maybe a BiFrost2.

@soix - I 100% agree that source content matters, but do you hear a difference between Qobuz 24/192 and AmazonHD 24/192?  (Legit question)

 

@fuzztone - I don't have another choice for streaming (well, maybe an iphone, but that's probably not the direction you were going).  What should I be using? 

 

BTW, I agree that local / ripped content is the best setup and ultimately minimizes the complexity.  But these days, music catalog selection and convenience win...  problem is:  I can't quite quantify what I'm loosing out on!   

Steve Stone did a comparison of the various HD music services and Amazon HD did not fare well. They’re just not there yet. Do a free trial of Qobuz and see for yourself.

Yep, here’s the orig. source:

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/amazon-music-hd-wants-you-but-do-you-want-amazon-music-hd

Pretty lite on technical content though.

Steve takes issue with the HD vs Ultra HD terms and also cites the lack of "Ultra HD" content when compared to Qobuz.  They have come quite a long way in terms of content.   

Anyway, my assumption going into this test was that a 24/192 source is good enough - no matter if it's AmazonHD or Qobuz... amirite?

 

$99.00 laughing my tits off! I've spent over 20x that on speaker spikes. Ffs get with the program or have a ear transplant.

OP here...   

But that's the whole point of the thread -- for $99, in my listening space, with my setup, I was surprised that it held it's own so well.  Sure there were differences, but none worth 4x / 8x the price. 

Which brought the original question:  For $99, the Toneboard was decent and well respected in my listening space.  What's the next level DAC (considering my setup)?  I had originally thought that the M500 or Hint6 would be that next level, but was surprised that it was not.  

I appreciate the thoughts on source material.  I'll have a look at Qobuz this weekend and run another test.  

 

 

I think the best way to sum up this thread is ...  you can get a lot of DAC for very little $$$.  I do agree that at some point it becomes art - which is a good way to put it - and for that you spend.  And really, the cost to entry for a quality digital setup is vastly (IMO) lower than that of vinyl.       

@lordmelton : I see you deleted your post that @cindyment is quoting. Unfortunate, because it was clear you didn’t realize that I was the OP.

1.5 pages of useful stuff, 1.5 pages of alley way pushing and shoving.

This is BS. I think we all need to go outside (myself included).

You all should be congratulating me like @ghasley did -- ffs.

Heck, I’m jealous of the guy...he and the OP have apparently found musical bliss for $100! I would give $100 if I could find musical bliss for $100 LOL.

The unofficial end of thread was 1.5 pages ago...