Newbie Looking for Advice on Streaming Music

Are you having stability problems using DLNA networked streaming, USB or S/PDIF input?

DLNA can be problematic depending on the playback app used.  RAAT will probably be more reliable when it is Roon ready.

If you like using your Sonos Connect, you could lower its jitter by reclocking it with a Synchro-Mesh to lower the jitter over the S/PDIF cable to the Sonica.  This would probably get you lower jitter than the Sonica by itself.  20psec jitter on the S/PDIF cable, if you use the right cable:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154310.0

30-day money-back if you don't like it.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

By and large I don't believe there are many meaningful sonic differences between well designed electronics, whatever the subjectivists on this forum want to believe. If there are differences, they are not necessarily for the better (e.g tube sound). The straight wire with gain criterion was met ages ago with solid state amplification, and I am increasingly inclined to believe that the same is now true for DACs.

If it were only true, you could get the best DAC on the market for $500.  Reviewers would not be giving rave reviews to ladder DACs that cost $10K+ and then buy them for themselves.

The thing that motivates people to believe that most DACs sound the same is that the sources that are feeding them have so much jitter.  Take the transport for instance:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154408.0

or a Sonos Connect:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154310.0

And then add a S/PDIF coax cable:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154425.0

If these sources are not reclocked, there will be enough jitter to mask most differences between DACs.

Add in an inexpensive active preamp, and you have additional distortion, compression and noise that will mask the rest.

The good news is that a good reclocker like the Synchro-Mesh can fix this.  Also, replacing your active preamp with a good transformer passive linestage like this one will eliminate the active preamp contribution:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teramoto-FINEMET-Premium-Transformer-Volume-Control-TVC-Custom-Seiden-Switch/200870484580?hash=item2ec4d05a64:m:mjVP51UdQVY9HM6HVvGv3RQ

Every DAC has a different sonic signature.  I have been to enough trade shows over 15 years to know this for a fact.  And perfect measurements means little.  The current measurement suite doesn't quantify dynamic response or jitter properly.  New measurement techniques are needed for both of these metrics. This is why I'm doing the measurements above, direct jitter measurements.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

The more power the better, and solid state amps usually perform rather better/more neutral under real speaker loads (see the graphs in Stereophile). Beefy solid state power amps do not need to cost an arm and a leg.

This is how I felt, until I was introduced to SET high-power tube amps. My reference I used at trade shows and for voicing was a pair of 600-1000W JC-1 Parasound monoblocks. Very low output impedance and obviously high power. Almost needing two power cords each. Also runs class A for 25W.

Then I modded a prototype pair of point-to-point wired SET TUBE monoblocks that output 35W each.

The SET tubes outperform the high-powered SS in every way, from high-frequency extension to dynamics to bass extension and tightness. And of course the midrange is more beautiful.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

No streamer, a computer plugged into the DAC via ethernet cable, and that’s it.

You must be using a swap cable to go directly from computer to DAC with Ethernet.

Would probably get better SQ using a router with a LPS with earth ground tied to DC common to wire to the DAC.  Leakage is a significant problem across Ethernet interfaces.

If you cannot do this, at least get a EMO EN-70e isolator and put it in the cable.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

shadorne

I suspect that differences in SQ when changing cables or sources on S/PDIF can be heard in DACs with low J test jitter.  I just don't put much stock in this method.  I have yet to hear ANY DAC that is immune to jitter on the S/PDIF input.

The B/W of AP equipment is insufficient to do direct jitter measurements.  I need the 7GHz scope.

I like to think outside the box.  That is what sets my products apart from the pack.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

I'm afraid I don't have anything to read.  It's a $1K option for my new $13K Overdrive SX DAC, which has Ethernet interface.

I use this WIFI solution interchangeably with my wired Ethernet and they sound identical.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

You can certainly use WIFI from your latop and even the DAC.  The DAC however requires more attention for good results, since it is the endpoint.

If you want a WIFI solution that sounds really good, I have one with grounded LPS supply and CAT7 cables as well as an isolator.  Not cheap though.  You just located this next to your DAC and plug the Ethernet from the DAC into this.  It is WPS enabled, meaning that it learns your network and password from your router.  Once it learns this, then the network is secure.  During the programming, it's not secure.  Takes about 5 minutes.

WPS I believe is Wireless Pairing System.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

Don - I can always sell one if you want one.  30-day money-back.

I will never add a webpage for it or put photos on my DAC webpage.  Maybe I could put photo on my audiocircle forum:

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

gary wrote:

@audioengr, for those of us who don’t have an Ethernet-enabled DAC and use a Windows-based PC to stream our song library (JRiver) / TIDAL to a USB DAC using Wi-Fi, is there an Ethernet-based solution - other than buying a different DAC - to reducing jitter in the digital signal prior to it arriving at the DAC?

Steve, I know you believe ethernet delivers the highest quality signal, but I’m not able to run a cable from where my router sits to my audio-based PC.

I also have my WIFI option that adds onto the Interchange or my Ethernet DAC. Its a 3-box solution for Interchange and WIFI. 2 IEC power cords.

I don’t have these on my website yet, but I have had them for 6 months or more.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

My integrated, a hegel h360 has an onboard dac but i'm new to streaming and currently run a usb from a laptop to the unit and with tidal's highest res option many songs sound very good but am I getting the most from both formats? 1 being tidal and the other being the onboard dac? a dealer recommends the blue sound into my analog outs which makes no sense to me?

Not to me either.

The USB interface on most DACs is a weakpoint IME.  you have the issues with USB SQ mixed with an unknown USB implementation.  I would avoid the analog outs and use your Hegel DAC.

The Bluesound would be a good choice if there were features in there that you like ie; player software, user interface and streaming accessibility.  I would use the S/PDIF output from it and reclock it with a Synchro-Mesh to lower the jitter.  I would use a very good S/PDIF cable, like this one:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154425.0

If you want to improve your USB, then get a Berkeley USB converter and a good S/PDIF cable to your DAC.  Get a good power supply to power the 5V in the USB cable, which powers the input side of the converter.  This still requires a good player software and a good USB output port to sound decent. All USB ports are not the same.   

I use Amarra for USB, but Jriver with Ethernet is better.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

Just looking at your oscilloscope plots, I would say you have plenty of triggering issues - this would explain why you get bimodal distributions and distributions that look a mirror image of each other.

You would be much better served by analysis of the final analog output of the DAC - any jitter will show up as distortion of the known digital input signal.

I don’t believe they are triggering issues. The trigger error is something like 1-2 psec.  All of my products don’t have the bimodal shape. Even the bimodal is only maybe 10 psec between peaks. Insignificant.

I don’t want the DAC in the picture when I’m testing my various interfaces. I want to measure the digital jitter directly.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

Hi Steve I was looking at the Synchromesh on your site and I think I am reading this right. There is an option for an output that down-samples to 16/44.1 correct? My DAC just does redbook and I have issues when inadvertently streaming MQA albums through Tidal so if that is in fact the case I would fine that very useful. Thanks! If relevant streamer is an Auralic Aries Mini to an Audio Note DAC-3 signature.

Yes, the Synchro-Mesh can be ordered with 24/96 or 16/44.1 output.  Any sample-rate up to 24/192 at the input works.  This will reduce the jitter to 18psec and your AN DAC will love this.  I highly recommend at least putting my Standard BNC cable with RCA adapters on the output side of the Synchro-Mesh.  Actually best if used on both input and output, but you can use any cable you already have on the input.  See:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154918.0

Steve N.