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newbie 1st post 2 channel reccomendations.

hey guys:
putting together a 2 channel system for the bedroom, wife and kids took over MY downstairs theater and banished me to the bedroom. at first distraught, i was relegated to ht forum surfing and arrived here. since i had been mainly using the theater for listening to music anyway, i eagerly surfed the auidiogon waves all hours of the evening. a few days ago,the warden (my wife) gave me permission ( am i p-whipped or what) to put together a stereo system in the bedroom. i have home theater experience but have never put together 2 channel system and know nothing about tubes but will soon be enlightened
a little info:
room size: 18'x14'3" with 8' ceiling (flat)would prefer speakers on long side of room cannot be more than 2.5' from front wall lot's of room from side walls, bed in middle of room but can be rearranged.
musical preferences: classical all types, jazz, pink floyd, eagles, elton john
budget: 4k not including accessories
system: intergrated amp or seperates, cd or sacd or universal player, monitor speakers with possible later addition of sub.
mostly moderate occasionally loud listening levels

i have access to almost anything since i live relatively close to la and san diego but everything is also 1-2 hours away. therefore, all help in narrowing down options is appreciated. i have set up an audition of proac studio 100 with jolida jd502b integrated amp and jd 100 cd player next week. will possibly audition thiels on monday. also looking at taylo ref monitors and classe', plinius and possibly bryston. may later use this in new theater so may chuck budget and purchase good multi channel amp eg. BAT vk6200 or bryston or something similiar.
all input will be greatly appreciated including equipment and room setup/speaker placement suggestions. basically, tell me anything you want because the kids just got a bunch of dvd's and i'll be here all night.
i know this encompasses alot so just do your best.

aloha keith
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cloudgif
19 posts
 
Nantic: you are kidding yourself.

You say in your most recent post here, "All one needs is a sound meter to insure the Levels are same." (sic) Do you mean to imply that you had one in your possession and used it in the course of the "test" that you describe?

I didn't think so.

You claim that you auditioned three Naim CD players "all having identical output levels." You think that is so. But it ain't.

Guess what, my friend, Naim only makes three CD players and according to their specs they do not have the same output levels.

The top of the line CDXZ has voltage output of 2Vrms @ 1 khz and an output impedance of 50 Ohms.

The (mid) CDXZ has voltage output of 2.1Vrms with a maximum output impedance of 10 Ohms.

The CD5 has voltage output of 2.0V w/ the same output impedance spec as the CDXZ

The higher its' output impedance and voltage output the louder a CDP will play--all other things being equal. I don't know if the 40 Ohm difference between the Naim units would make a significant difference. That would have to be measured. Did you check that out with your "sound meter?"

Are you going to accuse me of George Bush-like "audio speak" again? Are you willing to consider that "a little bit" of scientific method might be a good idea?

A hi-fi store is not a church, or other place of worship where we check our skepticism at the door and don the mantle of Believer. It seems to me that you are falling into the trap assuming that just because your trust in your dealer may be well founded, based on his character, that he isn't under a misassumption.....which you have adopted. That is Religion not careful audio evaluation.

Shall we shake hands and make up?
cloudgif
19 posts
 
Atagi: you are doing the right thing by doing a lot of listening to a variety of gear in a variety of venues.

A few suggestions. Reduce as many variables as you can. For example, select a few "test" selections from CDs that you are familiar with and use the same music to audition with, wherever you go. Maybe you do or don't like violin music. The old "E" string on the violin (the highest pitched of the four strings) in a good recording can and will expose overly bright sound reproduction. I suspect that if you listen to some fiddling on the Theils and then on the Vandersteens you might decide that the Theils are forward and aggressive in the treble and that the Vandersteens are a little veiled.

What is important is that you focus on what you are listening for. How good is the bass? How transparent the midrange? How extended the top end? And so forth.

As to the ethical dilemma you raise: you are absolutely right. The dealer is nice to you because he is a nice guy AND because he hopes that his investment of time with you will put a few dollars in his pocket down the road. The "right" thing to do is to buy the product you like from the guy who introduced you to it and spent the time with you. But how many of us can actually DO the right thing when discounts and/or used gear may be available elsewhere?

Good luck with your Quest and keep us informed (while we quibble among ourselves).
natnic
33 posts
 
I dont know If Upscale Audio is close to you Atagi. If it is give them a call . he has many great lines..

Yes I do agree if your listening to gear in a Store , then you should support him or offer to pay for his time, Hey if you can save thousands giving the dealer who allowed you to audition it some of your savings is fair.

If you are up front and tell him you may buy online then its his choice to invest time with you.

Be honest and up front.

Happy Hunting.

Your on the right track, listen listen and dont let all the online guru's sway you. Your ears will not lead you astray.

Cloudgif made a good point, bring system breaker music.

If it gets the hard stuff right the rest is cake.
cloudgif
19 posts
 
Natnic: thank you for the words of agreement.

Your suggestion of handling the "helpful dealer" problem is a great one. Everyone's time is of value. If a guy is going to serve as our audio consultant we should let him know that and compensate him for his services.
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atagi OP
98 posts
 
glad to see that we now have peace in our thread. you have both been very helpful and i appreciate your effort to make my search more fruitful. i agree with the helpful dealer suggestion. i was planning to purchase cables and accessories from them but i also like the audio consultant idea alot. i still think that i will purchase at least 1 component from a local dealer.

natnic: looked at the upscale audio site and they are pretty close to me. alot closer than the other dealers i've been frequenting. i'm not very familiar with most of there lines. which lines and products are you talking about?

yesterday went to garden grove and listened to the psb platinum m2 powered by jolida 302b amp and nad cd player. i had the room to myself so i listened for about an hour and played the bach, berloiz, and added norah jones, diana kroll, and the eagles. very nice system although i would probably get a better cd player. i've been noticing that none of the systems i've auditioned thus far do real justice to the berloiz symphonie fantastique. they all sound fantastic on the smaller works but seem a bit strained with the scope of the full orchestra.

do you guys have any suggestions for the system revealing recordings? have to stay home next weekend babysitting and superbowl. i plan to spend the next two weeks putting together my thoughts on these auditions and planning what to do next. so far i have no favorites and feel overwhelmed but excited.

again thanks for all the help. will keep you informed with what's happening.

aloha keith
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