New2Analog - Table Setup Help?

Okay, I spent the weekend listening to my new, but small, record collection. None of the records seemed to be staticly charged this weekend, and listening was much better. I still found a fair amount of snaps and pops, but nothing like I experienced after I opened a record, pulled it out, and put it on the table for the first time.

I did begin to use the Disc Dr I purchased nearly all the time, and ensured that the records were completely dry before dropping the needle.

What amazed me the most, is the contrast in my records from a noise standpoint. I purchased the following records since I bought the table:

- used, but in good condition, disc dr only
- used, but cleaned in a 3-step system on a VPI 17f record cleaning machine by previous owner (VERY Through in his Collection!)
- New, but very old 1968 & 1973 vintage
- New, and very recent

The used in good condition I bought from a used record store, and the had a fair amount of noise, but for the $$ not bad. Due to the noise, I would not "repeat" listen as often as others.

The used, incredibly cared and cleaned were by far the quietist records of my collection. I am amazed at the silence of a Art Pepper 1990 LP (Incredible JAZZ). The Alan Parson is quite nice too, and Garbage is AWESOME on my table, with ZERO noise. I think try and buy more from this collector!

The new sealed, but old records were by far the biggest dissapointment. LOTS of noise, that did settle down now that there is no more static, but still, they are filled with far more noise than I would like. They are all classical records, and the noise just stands out...pop- - snap - -

The new - new (Pink Floyd DSOM 30th) sounds incredible, the Robert Plant-Alison Krause is great, but with some noise, and Cold Play is a bit dissapointing (a good amount of snap - pop etc..).

So, why would I have these issues with new vinyl specifically? If I can not trust new vinyl, how can I trust the used market, unless I only have one source - my guy that sold me the Alan Parsons, Garbage, and Art Pepper!

I guess the common point is the need for good cleaning? Do I really need to spend $1200-1500 on a record cleaner, and another $50 on all the solvents to get them in that pop free shape?

Regarding some critical listening - I did love the sounds I heard this weekend, but I did bounce between CD and Vinyl where I could (Cold Play, Dire Straits, Alan Parsons, Fleetwood Mac Rumors), and found a consistant signature of my table. There is more weight to the midrange and lower end of the upper octaves, where with CD, the upper octaves are more forward. I do hear the purity of the instruments in vinyl, but I am missing some of the upper air. That I recognize as the difference between a $300 turntable/PhonoPre combination, and a better table/phonoPre (and cartridge of course).

All that said - I am STILL on the fence about Analog! I must get rid of the noise, or I am back to tweaking digital, instead of analog.

Suggestions?

Jeff in Detroit
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I bought the table used, and the previous owner had barely used it, but I was under the impression that he had tuned/set-up the table. I have done nothing to change this setup, as I thought I would get suggestions here. As mentioned earlier, I am looking for setup improvements so I can get the system to a point where I like it, and then will spend money to improve it.

I will work on the VTA. Thanks for the tips guys!

I also will play with the preamp switch under the table to ensure it is in the right place.

Jeff

CD - Does not sound as open and airy as I would like, which is why I am putting my toe into the Vinyl world. However, at the moment, CD sounds better than the Vinyl for all the reasons listed in my original post.

Cleaning a Stylus with SANDPAPER. Now that sounds nuts. I hear dust in the grooves of records can mess up a stylus, so why would you take 400 or 600 grit (very very fine) sandpaper to a stylus (which happens to be nearly brand new)?

I think I will have to get the DVD, and some coaching from my analog friend.

Thanks Guys! I am still hopefull that I will like it when I am done tweaking.

We will see, as I am taking this inexpensive entry table to a very seasoned analog guy, and putting it in his system, for proper setup, and comparison to CD and his table. If you are correct, and I need to spend $1000+ to get a good initial setup, when buying from the gon, then I may choose to not step too far into the Analog pool.

From what I have heard, this table should give me some of the benefits of Analog/Vinyl, but as stated a couple times, I am sure there is something wrong. We are getting clearly distorted music. Once that is corrected, I will make some decisions.

Mayby my expectations were wrong, but I bought this table, simply to see if I would enjoy the sounds of vinyl over my traditional cd system. For less than $200, I had a simple turntable solution to try things out. I was not going to spend $500-1500 on a solution until I knew that I would enjoy listening to vinyl through my system. I have many concerns, (Hissing and snapping dirty scratched records, short time to turn a record over, added complexity to my system - just to name a few). I have heard great analog playback, and I like it, I am trying to get my entry level experience to a place I like, then will look for the $500-1000 table/cartridge/arm, and the $300-500 phono-pre.

UPDATE - UPDATE!

I took my table to a friend who know turntables well, and we made a couple of changes. We changed out the stock cartridge and installed the LP-Gear upgraded cartridge. We used the Shure pressure measurement, and set the force to 2gm. We found one of the wires connecting to the old cartridge disconnected! These are the only changes, and when we put it into his system, both of us were quite pleased. We did some A-B comparison to CD, and agreed on the following:
Vinyl was a bit laid back to the CD
CD was certianly clear, but sterle
Vinyl made instruments sound true.
Drums had a deeper timber sound - you could tell size between them more than a "thund or bang" of CD
Horns of all types were more realistic

I liked it, packed it up, and brought it home to install in my system. The next day, I listened to a couple of my records (I only had 6), and was quite happy in my system too.

Yesterday, I went out and bought a number of records. I found the ColdPlay and Robert Plant/Alison Krause Grammy winning records at two different stores new, and bought em. I also picked up a 1968 sealed recording of Stravinsky's Fireworks performed by the Chicago Symphony, and Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite performed by the Paris Orchestra in the early 70s (Sealed). Both of these prints were filled with snap crackle and POP. It was quite annoying, especially since I bought sealed copies. I ran a Disk Washer kit over them, but it had no affect.

I then played a used copy of the soundtrack from FM, and it was ok, but my expectation was there would be a fair amount of static sound to it.

Not shure what may have happened. I know one of the sealed copies was FILLED with static electricity - how do I get rid of that??

Still trying to figure out if this is all worth it.... I like it - but not if I have to have tons of noise on 20% of the music I listen to..

Jeff