Dynaquest4 - until you have some evidence that this product doesn't work (by testing it yourself or through others testing it scientifically) then you cannot characterise it as a scam or useless. And I think the term "troll" can be applied to a lot of the posts on here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trollAs tommylion puts it, you are simply here to stir up trouble. It seems you have no genuine interest in this product and have already decided that it is a scam yet you pepper the conversation with inflammatory remarks. If it smells like a Troll and acts like a Troll.............. |
This thread (I’ve read all 9 pages) has been a shambolic and quite horrible waste of time for all concerned. Yes, there has been a lot of trolling but the way that it has been responded to has been quite disappointing also.
There has been, in the middle of all this cr*p, some genuine requests for information and answers have not been forthcoming for whatever reason. That doesn’t really help the cause of the product regardless of its merit.
The best thing for the vendor to do and for the genuine enquirer might be to stop the endless to and thro and wait until the 15th (or whatever date transpires) to put a full suite of information up on the interwebs for all to see.
P.S. I own a tube of Mad Scientist Graphene solution. Yes it is messy as hell, but that is simply a bi-product of the fact that it is in an oil solution and you simply work around that in the same way that you use common sense when painting or soldering or other potentially messy activities.
It has been on parts of my system for the better part of a year with no degradation (To answer that concern). The most significant use I put it to was on the end ends of some Dueland tinned copper speaker cable that I then clamped solid copper spades on to (compression fixing with grub screws). The results were, on a purely subjective level, very positive. I noted that when I set up the cables with bare ends, after about 2 days the sound went from very detailed to very muffled. Presumably this was due to oxidisation of the tin - I live in a semi tropical climate which is about 15kms from the sea. I applied the graphene and it was initially a little bit bright sounding (subjective). After about 2 days this settled down and over the last 4 months I now have a lovely sound from the cables (again subjective).
No DBT or other measurements of this I’m afraid. I am thinking about getting a multimeter that can read very low resistances and doing some before and after tests just to inform myself about whether there is any measurable difference after the treatment. It would be nice to find some change as I think I can hear a change - and I hope it can backed up in some way with measurements. I do trust my ears and those of my friends but I always like to have some datum to have on hand so that I don’t get whacked over the head by objectivists. |
randy-11 - Graphene is attracting a lot of attention due to it’s inherent strength, its ability to provide lubrication whilst providing a highly conductive interface and its very high conductivity. I think it shows a real lack of intellectual honesty to write-off graphene as a technology just because you disagree with the merit on one audio-tweak product that at this stage you have no experience with.
The fact that industry giants are investing billions in developing and investigating graphene worldwide makes your comments look like a cheap shot and on top of that makes them look lame as they deliberately ignore the facts. |
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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2542529317300597Read at your leisure (but I know the trolls won't!) "
1.3.1. Klein paradox and chiral tunneling According to the quantum mechanics, regardless of whether the particle energy is higher than the barrier, there is a certain probability through the barrier, while the particles also have a certain probability pass barrier. However, the electrons in graphene are tunneled through the barrier at a probability of 100%. During this phenomenon, the electrons of graphene exhibit the properties of massless particles and are not bounced or reflected because of the presence of the barrier" "
1.3.2. Ballistic transport The electrons in graphene hardly encounter scattering during transport. Because the electrons in graphene can move like particles of zero mass, the electrons propagate at a rate faster than any known conductor at room temperature. The electrons in graphene do not scattering, due to lattice defects or extraneous electrons when moving in orbit; therefore, the average free path of electrons in graphene can reach 1 μm, and the average free path of electrons in the general material is in the nanometer range [32,33]. Fig. 5 shows the ballistic transport of graphene." "
1.3. Electronic property of graphene There are three σ bonds in each lattice of graphene. The p orbitals of all carbon atoms are perpendicular to the hybridization plane of sp2 and form a delocalized π bond in a shoulder-by-side fashion, which runs through the whole graphene [11–14]. π electrons are free to move in the plane; therefore, graphene has a good conductivity, thus, at room temperature, it exhibits semi-integer quantum Hall effect, bipolar electric field effect, superconductivity,"
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And might I say, if anyone can’t concede that there might be a possible link between the above properties in Graphene (anti-corrosive, high conductivity interface) and how it might conceivably improve performance of connections in HIFI then they are being disingenuous to the extreme.
As forthe comment about just joining in (and I guess in a sideways manner asking me to butt out). I joined Audiogon about 3 months ago (I think). I had to chime in to this discussion to due to the nature of the comments being made.
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Gents,
I am not familiar with the Total Contact product as you know and the comments I made above are in response to those who have scoffed at Graphene as a viable technology and asked me to back up my comments about the research being done into Graphene.
I have no idea about the composition of the Total Contact product so I can’t offer any opinion either way about how it might function. I am also not well versed on micro-arc(h)ing in relation to low-voltage applications though I believe it can exist at some measurable level - I have no idea whether it’s elimination would be "audible" in a HIFI chain.
I simply wanted to interject with some facts. i note that when people of a certain disposition make scoffing remarks in these sorts of discussions, when one presents them with facts they either scurry off to another thread or introduce some new argument to deflect what they are being presented with. Let's wait and see. |
[" The researchers say that coating the copper with one-layer graphene sheets increased heat conducting properties up to 24%. They say that this method could be used to built better hybrid copper – graphene interconnects for electronic chips. The researchers explain that the improvement is the result of changes in copper’s nano- and microstructure, not from graphene’s action as an additional heat conducting channel."
So, when WE apply it to our connections, are we in effect eliminating the copper in the connections and replacing it with graphene?"]
My take on it is that if properly formulated and applied then the Graphene will form a highly stable, hydrophobic, highly conductive interface between the copper (or whatever the conductive interfaces are).
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[
Does it cure warts? ]
No, you're on your own with that one.
[Does it unblock drains?]
No, use Draino.
[What about Erudite Disfunction?]
That's a potentially embarrassing ailment and you should consult a medical specialist rather than seeking help of an audio forum.
[Surely this magic substance does so much more? How many weeks to cure cancer?]
No, it can't - but I don't remember that claim being made on this thread. |
Randy-11
[
but he said micro-arching, not micro-arcing
maybe he likes keystones]
So your response in the face of the the linked articles and ongoing discussion is to pick holes in a spelling mistake? Can you actually contribute anything of any value to this thread? |
[The claims for this pseudo-product have reached such a high level of lunacy that, though it keeps me chuckling, I’ve just run out of interest. And I just don’t need the extra 20 emails a day.
Most here will not be unhappy to see me go...also, unlike a few here, I just have other interests in life beyond Audiogon.
Adios compadres!! ]
What "new level of lunacy"? The one where I presented evidence of the science behind Graphene?
Scurry off now! |
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Jetter
[ Also, deep, the fact is that all 16 of your posts since joining A’gon are defending this product from us naysayers. Do you have a financial or other interest in it, or just really jazzed by graphene?]
Read my posts. You’ll note that I do not at any stage defend this product. I have no exposure to this product and I’ve made that plain a few times. I have no financial interest in this tweak, in the Graphene industry or in Mad Scientist for that matter. I just hate when people pepper internet fora with scoffing and ill researched comments.
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Jetter
[ Hey deep, the fact that you are putting your vastly superior intellectual abilities to use discussing the merits of "sparky tonic" kind of indicates that maybe you are taking this all a little too seriously. There are plenty of us who use our writing and reasoning skills in real jobs and don’t have the need to research and write long winded dossiers about tweaks in our time off. But, I will look forward to reading your well thought out, grammatically correct review of this product after you purchase it and wait the required two months for it to activate and start working.]
Thanks for acknowledging the high standard of my writing skills.
What I take seriously is half-a**ed attacks on anything that might have some merit and which are the result of laziness (intellectual or otherwise).
I am back to work now and was on holiday last week so had lots of time to write dossiers and such. I am now back to a "real job" but I thoroughly enjoyed myself here. It’s fun trolling the trolls. |
Geoffkait.
[Ne devrait pas nourir les trolls.]
Sounds so much nicer in French.
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Wolf_garcia
[ …question the efficacy of certain seemingly "faith based" tweaks at your peril! Even asking simple questions and foolishly expecting rational answers to them can result in being labeled a "troll" or "negative nancy" ........Golden Eared Uber-Qualified sophisticates who shamelessly promote certain things are "real serious" magic hat rack and directional fuse wire aficionados with money to burn. $300 contact enhancing goo that takes 80 hours to ultimately work its Complete and Astonishing System Improvement magic....should be accepted on faith as, after all, what the heck do YOU know anyway? Just order the stuff, smear it on your wires........]
What "questions" that have you been asking about the product? I can’t see any questions in the above statement for sure.
Do you consider you comment " Golden Eared Uber-Qualified sophisticates who shamelessly promote certain things are "real serious" magic hat rack and directional fuse wire aficionados with money to burn" to be a question? If so, you need to have a think about what the word means.
Perhaps pointing out that it costs $299 as you and others have done? No, that’s not a question either and it reflects an underlying assumption, and it in no way questions its efficacy, just its affordability. Or how pointing out about the fact that it takes 8 weeks to really take effect - is that question?
Derogatory statements - put downs, slagging-off, pi**-takes whatever are not "questions". Calling into question whether it is too expensive or takes too long to work (which is not a question!) has nothing to do with its efficacy either.
Essentially the "negative nancies" have decided, in advance that this product for whatever personal reason, can’t / won’t work. And that’s just being intellectually lazy.
I note that there has not been one technical objection to the links that I presented. So either people didn’t read them, didn’t understand them or simply feel that taking cheap shots is somehow an appropriate response when they are presented with information that they can’t incorporate into their world view.
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Randy-11
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you don't have to use heroin to know what it does
and it is very easy to know what something can NOT do (except for the few antiVAXers and others who deny physics and electronics) ]
Still at it are we? What do you know about the product? It uses Graphene (an established and well understood Molecule) mixed with other substances in a polymer (the polymer has not been specified as far as I know).
So based on this information (i.e. the 2 facts above, what do you know in can NOT do? Can't improve the conductivity of connections perhaps? (refer the links I provided). Can't reduce oxidation maybe? (ditto). Can't provide an interface with almost zero resistance ?(links, Randy, read the links).
Seriously, making a statement like that proves a few things IMHO:
1. You don't understand or want to understand that this product can work based on solid scientific research. (Physics!)
2. Your intent is to crap all over a product that you have no idea about, no experience with and obviously no understanding of.
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WillemJ
[
In Europe, consumer protection agencies have gone to court in comparable cases to argue that this is consumer fraud....I have no idea about US law]
I only know a little about US law but a statement claiming that a product that you know nothing about is "fraud" based on some misunderstanding on the nature of the manufacturer's claims would be argued to be libel in a court of Law. |
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Pitchperfect,
Funnily enough the excerpt I linked to does mention the word quantum but only in the context of "quantum hall effect".
The irony here being that this effect was originally proven by experiments on MOSFETS. |
shadrone, Ironically the battery in both your Tesla and your Iphone will possibly be made of Graphene in the future. If only you guys could work out how to use Google, you could look up the information yourselves. |
Randy-11.
Not asking you to "teach" me anything. But nice deflection.
Do you argue against the Science behind Graphene. I'd just love to know you position on this. I think it will inform us all as to what your underlying assumptions are about the product. |
Randy-11,
Please provide one logical scientifically based argument as to why, in the absence any knowledge of or experience with it, you can conclusively state that this product cannot work.
P.S. Unicorns do not count as science.
Waiting.................. |
randy-11,
[ dupethought, i don’t usually try to teach electronics on the internet
nice try at changing the question tho]
And again, what "question"? You don’t seem to be able to differentiate a statement from a question. Perhaps if you phrased your posts in the form of actual questions, you might have a better chance of getting answers.
But that of course assumes that are seeking answers or knowledge which clearly you are not. |
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