2. amps-preamps
  3. 168746-161963

New Preamplifier Testing (Poor sound)

Looking for help...

I got a new preamplifier to replace my integrated amplifier, but the sound is extremely underwhelming. Biggest issues are sound distinction and clarity (sounds dull) and field depth (sounds narrow/flat) with less depth and width regarding the sound field when listening to stored digital music.

Old set up:
Innuos Zenith -> (USB) Gustard X26 Pro -> (XLR) Cambridge Azur 851a -> (RCA) Cambridge Azur 851w -> KEF LS50 Meta's and Kube 12b subwoofer.

New set up:
Innuos Zenith -> (USB) Gustard X26 Pro -> (XLR) Rotel 1590MKii Preamp -> (XLR) Cambridge Azur 851w -> KEF LS50 Meta's and Kube 12b subwoofer.

I'm really surprised this new preamplifier was such a drop off in sound quality compared to my older, cheaper integrated amp, but wondering if there are any tests I could do to maybe change something to better figure out if its the preamp, or rather something I'm doing. Looking at all the extra digital inputs in the Rotel that my 851a doesn't have makes me think that maybe the 851a is just a more adept component at passing along my DAC's signal, where the Rotel is geared towards using it's internal DAC.

The Rotel is run in a "Tone Bypass" mode via the XLR connections to bypass the internal DAC.

Just wondering why the Rotel would choke off the sound so much while the older integrated amp make things sound so deep and bright when paired with the power amp?

A friend suggested running my DAC straight to my power amp and see if the sound was back to old (or at least better).

Any other suggestions I should try before I send the preamplifier back?
128x128ja_kub_sz

Showing 9 responses by ja_kub_sz

ja_kub_sz's avatar
ja_kub_sz OP
254 posts
 
@ghdprentice 

So you're not a believer in the "there's no preamp like no preamp" saying?

I laughed when my buddy said it, but I'm kinda wondering myself with this one.
ja_kub_sz's avatar
ja_kub_sz OP
254 posts
 
All good points, as far as "break in time" I only have a 60 day window to try and return. So that I'm kinda limited on.

1. DAC to amp and compare (cut out preamp).
2. Try RCA connections to pre and power amp.
3. Bust out the old integrated amp again compare after both of the above.

That's my plan as of now.

I’ll 100% let you all know what I come up with.

Thanks!
ja_kub_sz's avatar
ja_kub_sz OP
254 posts
 
@sns @oldhvymec @yyzsantabarbara

Thanks for the suggestions! Never thought about leaving it on.

I too want a preamp (or integrated amp) as opposed to just running my DAC to an amp.
ja_kub_sz's avatar
ja_kub_sz OP
254 posts
 
@vladedelman and @hshifi

Thanks for the help! DAC volume is low, my streamer and preamp are managing the volume controls (Rotel at 50% volume and Zenith/Squeeze Box doing the rest), honestly I really agree with you all on letting it warm up and needing to leave it on (which I haven't done). So I'm gonna start there and I really think, just as you said, that I need to swap in and out a different preamp to try. So I'm looking into that also.

I have about 55 days to try this, but honesty I might try to get a couple of other preamps and amps to do a side by side by side test over the next two weeks.

I have a little plan, and gonna see if time wise I can pull it off, if so I'll have a pretty cool preamp-amp shoot out taking place at my home.

Can't wait to see my wifes face when it happens 😆
ja_kub_sz's avatar
ja_kub_sz OP
254 posts
 
@douglas_schroeder 

That's a great article, and sadly I was trying for months to track down a Azur 851e, but sadly they're impossible to come across and I lost out on bidding on a used one that sold for over $2,200 and was many years old.

But yeah, I'm really impressed with the bulk of Cambridge Audio's stuff.

Excited to run my851w amps in monoblock mode and just trying to sort out the "pre" portion of the system, but maybe I'll just stick with the 851a.

Just need to give the Rotel a little more time and attention. Also gonna look at Yamaha and Technics out of my own curiosity after doing some reading and you-tubing.
ja_kub_sz's avatar
ja_kub_sz OP
254 posts
 
Honestly I didn't order other preamps.

My intergrated amp really sounds good, so I'm gonna give two others a try (all in the same price point).

My thinking is... If I spend $300 in return shipping but end up keeping my Azur 851a I saved myself 2k.

So I'm gonna tryout a Yamaha A-S2100 and the Technics SU-G700 (both $2,500).

We'll see... It'll give me something to do and hopefully close the door on my system for some time.

I just want a wide spread and three completely different takes on what I'm listening to.

Analog iAmp
Digital iAmp
Analog iAmp (one tier up A-S2100 @ $3,500 price point)
Digital Pre-amp
ja_kub_sz's avatar
ja_kub_sz OP
254 posts
 
I ordered two other units to try out, and we'll see.

Gonna have a 4 way shoot out winner take all. I just need a little time with the Rotel and then give the old iAmp a try again and see.

I've been working so much lately I finally got to listen to like 15 minutes of music the other day before my wife told me to "knock it off".

Just need a solid music listening day for each unit.
ja_kub_sz's avatar
ja_kub_sz OP
254 posts
 
I was contemplating a NAD preamp, but didn't like the look 😆
ja_kub_sz's avatar
ja_kub_sz OP
254 posts
 
Okay... Here was my set up and here was my listening soundtrack.

Rotel 1590MK2
Innuos Zenith (USB) -> Gustard X26 Pro (XLR) -> Rotel 1590 MKII (XLR pre out) -> Azur 851w power amp -> Kef LS50 Meta's and lube 12b subwoofer (line out).

Cambridge Audio Azur 851a
Innuos Zenith (USB) -> Gustard X26 Pro (XLR) -> Azur 851a (RCA pre out) -> Azur 851w power amp -> Kef LS50 Meta's and lube 12b subwoofer (line out).

Yamaha A-S2100
Innuos Zenith (USB) -> Gustard X26 Pro (XLR) -> Yamaha S-2100 (RCA pre out) -> Azur 851w power amp -> Kef LS50 Meta's and lube 12b subwoofer (line out).

Technics SU-G700
Innuos Zenith (USB) -> Gustard X26 Pro (RCA) -> SU-G700 (RCA pre out) -> Azur 851 power amp -> Kef LS50 Meta's and lube 12b subwoofer (line out)

Listening Soundtrack
Genghis From - Exit Perfect Mind//Ritual Circle
Old Man Gloom - Volcano
Black Wing - Is This Real Life, Jesus Christ?
Broadcast 2000 - The View
Adian Knight - Renovations
Ida Mae - Chasing Lights
PJ Harvey - Long Snake Moan
Freedom Fry - Summer in the City Starcadian Remix
With Lions - Our Great Rise
Death from Above 1979 - Little Girl
The Disappeared - Greater Omaha
Bjork - Hunter
Audioslave - Cochise
The Dandy Warhols - Nietzsche
True Widow - OOTPV
Sisyphus - Lion's Share
Run the Jewels - Oh My Darling
Shame - Human, for a Minute
Danzig - Can't Speak
Odonis Odonis -  Promise

The grand winner was the Technics SU-G700 (Azur 851a #2, Yamaha A-S2100 #3 and Rotel bringing up the rear).

Really wasn't even close!
More to discover