New Old Thiel CS6 Speakers--Too Harsh


Hi All,

New pair of Thiel CS6 Speakers. First true pair of 'audiophile' speakers (...still might go back to my Kappa 7's and 8's).

Imaging and that 'holographic' sound is pretty good on the Thiels but not as good as the JBL 4312a's.  But again I am plagued by harshness in my system. It seems detail and excellent spatial performance just equates to brittle, harsh and painful in my room. I like to listen at rather loud volumes.

Frequencies that appear to be the problem are between 2khz all the way up to 16khz. If I EQ the system is listenable. 

The other issue the Thiels seem to have is out of phase low bass due to the passive radiator. Can anyone confirm this?

Here is my setup right now:
Modwright Oppo 105d (physical media and streaming)
Sonic Frontiers Line 2 preamp
Conrad-Johnson Premier 350 
14x17 room, on concrete slab carpeted with additional thick throw rug, heavy velour drapes over windows, bare walls and cd/record shelves, nothing on the ceiling.

What is causing the tizzy sharpness in my system/room?

So far the Infinity Kappa Series with its ribbon tweeters has sounded best in my room. The 8's are very impactful and tonally very complete. The 7's are close, not quite as impactful but have better imaging due to lower tweeter height. 

....and I don't want truth. I want beauty.

:-)

Thanks!


128x128brettmcee

Showing 3 responses by uncle_monkey

I didn’t have Thiels nearly that size (2.2’s) but still know exactly what you’re talking about. I originally demoed them with Spectral and McIntosh. My original environment was less than optimal, but a few years later I was able to build a dedicated listening room. Since I had Maggies previously, I thought I was ok as far as power went. I went from 2 Adcom 555’s to one, to NAD to Bryston (close but..?), not to mention whatever friends hauled over. I finally nailed it with BAT and the bat-pak. VK-220 and VK-3iX.

Something about having that current on reserve with the bat-paks totally solved the bass sluggishness (something about that passive radiator being slightly out of sync with the bass driver?) and the top was unbelievably sweet and tame. PS audio cable Xstream Statement throughout and the XLR I think made a heck of a difference as well (from MIT/Cardas/Nordost combos). I didn’t need nearly as much power as I always assumed, but just that added reserve. I guess like torque on a V8, the bat paks add instant current. Most impressive was the low volume performance. Before the things used to have to start getting loud to get the drivers moving. They sounded amazing at whisper levels.

Recordings I had hated were suddenly lush. For instance, I had an "audiophile" Japanese pressing of XTC’s Nonsuch that made my ears bleed. I literally almost tossed it. Suddenly it was so much better than the original redbook, articulate, subtle - a totally different beast. It certainly didn’t romanticize bad recordings, but good ones got better, and some that were etched before were obviously being emphasized by the amp/cable combos.
I am a bit surprised that the CJ isn’t doing it, and as others have suggested double check the room treatments. Mine were in a 12x18 room, about 7’ out into the room, and about 30" away from side walls with listening position about 10’ away and LP rack taking the rear wall. Room was pretty inert overall.
Hi, sorry for the vanishing act - but I suddenly decided instead of downsizing into my townhome I’d sell it and move back to my big house. LOL! So, the Thiels might be coming out again. I’m facing however setting up on a floor plan that is NOT stereo friendly. It’s basically the same as my first place, only the dedicated room is half the size so you have a 20’ ceiling at the entry (stupid).


LOL, I had a friend who had Apogees, and I swear the gear stores loved seeing him walk in. I think the last I saw he’d hooked up some Spectrals, but had a graveyard of Thetas, Pass, McIntosh... Freaking vampires.


Why can you only run the speakers on the long wall? One thing I found at least in my last 2 setups (16 x 27 and dedicated 12 x 19) was they sounded better close together and far, far away from the backing wall. I don’t think I ever got closer than 3’ no matter which way I did it. Listening distance 9-12 feet. Then again, I seem to be in the minority on listening on the long end. My dedicated room they were almost 7’ from the back wall.


I’m wondering if there’s something else in the CJ pairing that’s not right. Because your experience is completely opposite of mine over the decades. Then again, I’ve always dealt with this gear when it was new - we are talking "vintage" on a lot of this. Maybe old amps get cranky or get dementia?


I’m willing to bet once the VK-500 is back to spec you’re going to be ecstatic. Did you say what preamp you’re running? I’d put an awful lot into that. The BAT’s were made for each other. What I can say is that the Thiels are the pickiest speakers I’ve had the pleasure of owning. The final spice was getting the cable correct, which is honestly something I wouldn’t have believed. But a small moving box full of cable says otherwise.


Are you having them upgrade the bat-pak as well? I know they’re on their second generation at this point. Does Victor still work there? I’ve been so out of touch - and BAT seems to have fallen out of favor a bit. But my dealings with BAT were always excellent, very responsive.

BTW, huge Genesis fan, but I'm old AF. Saw them several times, and Gabriel for every tour from his first solo up to So.
uncle_monkey

Should you decide to re-engage those Thiel speakers, join us, over on the Thiel Owners thread. I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes and system.

Happy Listening!
I did pop over there a few weeks back. I'm excited to see if they're up to snuff. But as I mentioned unfortunately I recall one of them was having an issue - buzzing midrange IIRC. I had written them off with the demise of Thiel several years ago, but apparently there's a market in rectifying these.

As I mentioned over there, I loved the speakers so much my chase ended right then and there, even passing on the (amazing) 2.4's when I had a chance. I only updated my electronics/peripherals until I found the perfect match.Of course at the time, it was for a very specific space. In my new house all bets are off.