New Old Thiel CS6 Speakers--Too Harsh


Hi All,

New pair of Thiel CS6 Speakers. First true pair of 'audiophile' speakers (...still might go back to my Kappa 7's and 8's).

Imaging and that 'holographic' sound is pretty good on the Thiels but not as good as the JBL 4312a's.  But again I am plagued by harshness in my system. It seems detail and excellent spatial performance just equates to brittle, harsh and painful in my room. I like to listen at rather loud volumes.

Frequencies that appear to be the problem are between 2khz all the way up to 16khz. If I EQ the system is listenable. 

The other issue the Thiels seem to have is out of phase low bass due to the passive radiator. Can anyone confirm this?

Here is my setup right now:
Modwright Oppo 105d (physical media and streaming)
Sonic Frontiers Line 2 preamp
Conrad-Johnson Premier 350 
14x17 room, on concrete slab carpeted with additional thick throw rug, heavy velour drapes over windows, bare walls and cd/record shelves, nothing on the ceiling.

What is causing the tizzy sharpness in my system/room?

So far the Infinity Kappa Series with its ribbon tweeters has sounded best in my room. The 8's are very impactful and tonally very complete. The 7's are close, not quite as impactful but have better imaging due to lower tweeter height. 

....and I don't want truth. I want beauty.

:-)

Thanks!


128x128brettmcee

Showing 3 responses by brettmcee

My room is 14x17 and I have things setup lengthwise—speakers and gear are on the 14’ wall. Heavy, wall sized bookshelf full of vinyl and reel to reel tapes along the opposite wall. 
It’s got to be the room. I have been fighting this ‘listening fatigue’ hard harshness for like 5 years now. 
Two things I really have not changed are the room and the cabling. I would assume that room and room treatments will have a much bigger impact than cables so I should probably address that first.

I have been selecting gear that is all about ‘detail’ and that holographic reproduction—darker and colder. Maybe I have gone too far?

i also need to test the tubes in my Oppo and it’s power supply. Wish this were easier.

i have a BAT VK-500 with BatPak and a Caver Signature Sunfire 600 (I think it’s a 600?) that I am going to try with the CS6s.

Does anyone know if a Berning ZH-270 can adequately drive the Thiels? 
Thanks much for your post!

I love CJ amps for their 'holographic' sound, but in my room i am always ending up with harshness.

The last setup that worked great in my room were Infinty Kappa 8's powered by BAT VK 500 with batpak on lows and ZH-270 on highs. Sounded amazing! Nothing can beat those huge cones on the Kappas. They totally pressurize the room. And the ribbon tweeters are nice and airy...

But the Kappa 8's keep shorting out different amps. I will never hook my CJ up to them.

I am sending my BAT VK-500 for full maintenance shortly...once it's back I'll give it a shot.

The Thiels are much clearer and cleaner but yes a passive radiator design means that something is out of phase in the lows...and you can hear it compared to the Kappas. But the Thiels never lose composure no matter how hard you drive them.  But so far they make some of my favorite albums sound horrible if not EQ'ed (anything by peter gabriel and genesis). Very consistent at any volume. 

I have been eqing with a Venu360.  Sadly it redigitizes the signal just before the amplifier.  Any adjustments seem to step all over the spatial qualities of the sound but can tame the harshness.  I realize sadly this is not a solution to the problem.  The more I listen the more it sounds like a ratty band-aid.  

My room is 14x20 but it's a multipurpose space. So my Thiels are 1.5 to 2 feet from the back wall. The speakers can only be setup on a short wall in this room. The Kappa 8's were great for how not deep physically the cabinets are and how little they relied on their cabinets to fill out the bass. And you can easily get them 1-3 feet from the back wall.

Please send more thoughts.
HI All,

When it comes to driving my new old CS6's, a Carver Signature Sunfire Load Invariant Amp (600w) is trouncing my CJ Premier 350.

More bass, greater specificity in imaging, a bit more 'immediate' sounding and the harshness I was experiencing with the CJ amp is mostly gone.

I have to send my BAT VK-500 with BatPak in for servicing. I am hoping that it will best both the aforementioned amps when it comes to the Cs6's. 

I will be trying two Crown Class D XLS1500s in mono this weekend.  Should put out 1500w to really get that volume of air moving that moves the passive radiator. 

Is there a tube-based power amp that one could try to drive the CS6's?