Threaders:
Neither rain nor snow or sleet will keep Audio-Heads from their appointed rounds--In other words despite a Snow-Ice Storm here on the East Coast , my audio bud delivered TAS # 50 & 51 to the Ranch. No word from TAS yet. |
Threaders:
In response to a few of your emails I believe I may have located a replacement pump for the Maplenoll Super Quite Pump. Check out www.silentaircompressor.com , click on Silent Pumps, to Super Silent Dr-500 (Sale Price $620+S/H --Reg. $900.US) The pumps are distributed by Ernesto, 7941 Katy Freeway, Suite 320, Houston ,TX 77024. P/N 1-866-1320 8AM-6PM PST. The person I spoke to said the pumps make virtually no noise & are warranted for life. Mastercharge,Visa & American Express accepted. For those in need Check them out. |
That is about 400 less than the cheapest Jun-Air model 3. I saw the silent air line but could not find anyone who had direct experience with them. My Jun-Air will be in next week and i will post my results. I also recieved in the stillpoints yesterday. |
Crem1
Why the DR-500 model versus the others in the "SilentAir" range? Was that the suggestion of the tech? There is not very much information on the pumps internal configuration etc.. on the web page. |
Opus100 :
The short answer is that for years I have been looking for a replacement and the Dr-500 appears to fit the bill.
I personally came to that conclusion after speaking to Tech. Assistance with "Ernesto" ; the fellow seemed to be knowledgeable and understood that a replacement quiet pump was required to work with a TT.
The Tech. recommended the Dr-500 because he felt from the limited tech.information I had that this pump would deliver inspades. The gentleman asked me a series of questions concerning the TT and seemed satisified the 500 was right for the application.
Unfortunately, Bob Dilger did not provide any specifications before dissappearing from the scene. I know that Scott Leventhal , an ardent Maplenoll TT supporter, is organizating an effort to search out replacement pumps. I E/M him the same information posted for his review.
I have been a Maplenoll owner for 17+ years. In a community as small as ours, some owners reach out for assistance to dogged problems. The air pumps are a headache.
Personally, I would not purchase a 'Noll unless it came with a operating Quite Pump due to cost constrants. Cost was of equal importance . The Dr-500 is on sale an MAYBE an answer . As always its buyer be awaire . Should you have any further interest in a Quiet Pump please contact Ernesto. |
Threaders:
Over the years I have aquired recommendations for pump maintance which I summarize :
1. Those who understand our air pumps emphasize that having oil in the Maplenoll Super Quiet Pump is essental. The Manual calls for Mobil 1 synthetic (SAE 5-30) as the perfered lubricant.
2. The pump should be no more than 3/4 full of lubricant. Apparently, the lubricant evaporates with usage and must be checked every 180 days (6 mon.) to assure the pump will properly operate. Never over-fill. Over-filling may cause pump failure.
3. The two small air plenums and any other plenums you have should be vacated of water when servicing the pump. The reason is that the water from the two small internal plenums can back-up into the pump causing failure of the unit. Clear the others to keep water vapor from becomming a problem.
4. Change the intake filter on the pump yearly. I use a automoblie gas filter -- Works like a charm.
For further details , please request a copy of the Signature Ariadne Manual developed by Mr. leventhal, as posted earlier in the thread. |
Thanks for the info Crem1
I wonder if the DR-500 has an air conditioner, or Filter with a oil/water separator.
What is the discerning factor that one has the "Super Quiet" pump (SQP). Other then then the obvious, of it being quieter, what are the visual cues that one has a super quiet pump? I believe that the SQP was an option.
What are individuals using as the replacment for the lubrication of the top air bearing? ( the grease substance that originally came in a syringe) As well as the replacement for the viscous oil in the trough?
What about replacment belts? |
Below are the specs from the website on the DR 500:
Super Silent compressors are virtually "noiseless" and are totally automatic. Each unit includes a tank and line pressure gauge, line pressure regulator, moisture trap-filter-gauge, safety-valve, air intake filter and a carrying handle.
1/2 HP
1 1/2 Gallon Tank
2.0 CFM Free Air - 50% Duty Cycle
40 dB/a
114 PSI Op-Pressure
Voltage: 110 V-60
Shipping Weight: 53 lbs
The SQP came with an oak box with a brass screen on the top. The oil for the trough is common motor oil; not sure about the grease for the platter bearing.
The belt size depends on whether you have the older style with the belt going around the subplatter or the later style with it going around the platter itself. Simply measuring it and ordering the closest thing you can find on the internet is what I have done for customers who have required a replacement. As I have removed the motor from the plinth I have gone to dental floss. Pierre at Mapleshade recommends silk thread. Lloyd Walker uses silk ribbon. Thom Makris uses video tape if I'm not mistaken. |
Opus100:
Thank you for the reply. The questions you pose should most likely be answered by Ernesto , would you consider contacting them and post the results ?
Opus: Do you own a airbearing TT and if so what model. Please share your experiences with the TT and air pump to enhanse the information on the thread. |
Opus100 :
Regarding the upper platter bearing grease , a subtitute that appears to similar is the Merril " Black Bearing Oil" sold on the Vinyl Nirvan Web site for $15.00 US a pop. Different , but with plenty of the black stuff.
I mix a dab of teflon firearm lube inside the bearing itself with existing black oil lodged in the top of the bearing interior w/ a tooth pick as a mixer. |
Threaders : I am in the middle of a revision of my table beyond what has already been discussed. I will summarize the results when revisions are completed and tested. |
My Jun-Air compressor came in today. I found a good deal on an overstock item on Ebay. The model# is 6-15. It is an oil lube compressor that is easily delivering 50 psig to the table. The noise factor is nil. Its about like a refrigerator. Jun-Air is used a lot in the research and medical industry. Pluto Audio also uses Jun-Air. The compressor is built like a tank so its actually a good match for the Maplenoll table. |
Threaders: I located a source of information on the Web relating to air bearing tonearms. Go to www.EminentTechnology.com and download the manual for their Tonearm. Lots of good stuff including maintenance and other issues related to air bearing tonearms. Some interpertation to our situation required but all things considered a excellent addition to anyone's library...And besides its free. |
Threaders: ]
The E.T.Manual recommends a particular air filter the Motor Guard Model D-13. This filter is a superior replacement to the white paper filter Maplenoll included with the Tables. Its specifications are: Pipe Size 1/4" NPT (needs 1/4 x 1/8 barbs) , Max. Floor @ 80 PSI 1800 SCFH, Max Pressure 100 PSI, Max Temp 175 F , Removal Rating (norm) .01 microns, Size 21/2x3". Price on www.weilerwelding.com reg.$7.05 sale $5.84 + shipping .
According to the Manuals, the filter is a must to keep gunk from clogging the Tonearm's Air Bearing Sleve. The filter should to be installed before or after the last plenium that feeds the air supply. Some reviewers recommend placeing the filter close to the pump. Take your pick of options. An alternative is a china made knock-off at Harbor Tools, Inc 2 for $2.99 on sale. No specs available. |
Threaders: Quite Pump Care (QP)
If you own a Maplenoll Quite Pump like is understandable you want to extend the life of the QP as long as possible.
Scott Leventhal includes some upgrade hose and fittings recommendations on his Tweak Sheet. Fotunately, the hoses and fittings on my QP are in excellent condition; The work been apparently done at the factory long ago.
However, besides implementing the QP recommendations mentioned earlier , I did a homework regarding the pump lubericant. The factory recommendated MOBIL 1 (5-30 SAE). Another synthetic alternative to Mobil 1 is AMSOIL 5W-30 SAE. The product has been extensively tested in racing circles and reportly outperforms all other syn. oils. I have used the product in my car for years so I decided to use the AMSOIL in the pump. After, the VERY messy job of clearing the pump of who's knows what via 17 years of faithful service;I replaced the oil, cleaned the pump, and replaced the filter. I then rechecked the pump for air leaks and gently retightened the clamps. The result ? A consistent air flow of not less than 45 PSI, a cooler and less noisey pump in operation. As always my results may not be your own , so you take your chances but for me no problems. |
Air Supply Control:
Threaders; Using "hit an miss" , I have setteled upon a professional-type Air Control Unit I use to deliver a clean, oil free air supply from the Maplenoll Quiet Pump. The product , manufactured by Central Pneumatic, available at Harbor Freight , on-line or in their stores, # SKU 1118, consists of a air regulator, air control and filter unit. The specifications are ; operating pressure 160 PSI (Max.), Inlet size 1/2"NPT , Oultet size 1/4"NPT ( adapters/barbs required) , re-useable/ replaceable filter , Dimensions 11-3/4" Tall x 3-7/8" Dia. x 8-3/4" Deep , Weight 5-1/2 lbs., Filter up to 40 microns and Max.Capacity 21 C.F.M. @ 90 PSI. Sale Price $29.99. The Unit enters the air supply chain a few feet from the air output of the QT.
After the Air Control Unit, I follow-up with a secondary oil/water separator, a replaceable air filter , a charcole filter, a plenum (6"x41") that sends pressurized air to room where the 'Noll sits. At the 'Noll, all Walker Recommendations were implemented exactly as written with additional plenums/charcole filtering followed by 100' of tubing dedicated to the tone-arm . With the exception of a tweak here and there, the air supply chain is complete. More to come later. |
Threaders: Air Supply Chain(ASC):
A odd thing happened following my last thread, the ASC started to spring leaks in places that already had been checked were ok. This is more challenging than I initially expected. Everthing in the air chain is going to be re-tested. I will keep you informed. |
Threaders : Problems with Air Supply Chain (ASC) :
Specialists @ GE ( thread & PVC sealants ) report that for a variety of reasons the sealants I previously applied were not designed to work with PVC & metals . GE is forwarding industrial samples to apply. GE said that their products should seal the entire chain boosting the PSI . More to come soon. |
Can anyone advise the air flow needed for the 70 pound platter model, I understand it should be 40-45psi pressure, but to size the compressor I need to know the flow/displacement in cfm.
Thanks.
James. |
The platter size shouldn't matter. I'm not sure how to answer the rest of question though. |
I recently purchased a jun-air compressor model 6-15. The flowrate is rated for approx 2 cfm. The compressor keeps up with my system good. but I find after about 2 hours of continuous use the compressor gets pretty hot. 3 cfm would do nicely and would allow the compressor enough cycle time that overheating should not be a problem. |
Threaders : Momentive Performance Materals (formerly GE) , an industral raw materials supplier , forwarded several additional sample batches of bonders for experimentation with the air supply control (ASC) system. Hopefully , some of these compounds will seal the ASC . Before I can report sucess or ---, I'm taking a slight medical detour . CYS |
Threaders: I'm back from the medical detour . While on the mend I came upon a packet of Maplenoll info that Bob D. mailed to me in '91 that had been opened but largely unread. The packet contained lots of stuff ; pic's, reprints , 'Noll annoucements and reprints from Audio Clubs and Mags, etc .
A useful bit of info from the packet . Have you ever noticed that when you attempt adjust the cartridge sometimes the stylus maybe "on the money" on the outer edges of a Lp and "off" on the Ctr. or last portions of the groove. The arm manifold maybe slightly-off. The fix ? Just loosen the two bolts on the underside that hold the air manifold in place and adjust the arm until it's prefectly square. Great idea. No more repeaters or jumps on certian pressings. Good for all 'Nolls and similar AB Arms.
|
"off" in what parameter? Horizontal is controlled by left and right cones under the plinth. Tangency is controled by headshell/cartridge/overhang adjustments. Am I missing something? |
Piedpiper :
According to George M. Graves , "Stereophile", Vol 9, #2, issue 80, he believed that all Maplenoll's (leaving the factory) should be dealer installed .
It was Graves belief that most times fine-tuning was incomplete at the time of manufacture ,therefore, either the buyer or the dealer must complete the job. Graves remarks suggest that the AB Arm on the 'Noll is sometimes not square (in a construction-sence) of the word.
Essentally, the arm is a L configuration , that is supposed to be in tangent ( @ 90* ) to the center of the lower-bearing plate hole. The Air Manifold itself secures the L portion of the arm in the proper position (tangent) as to be square . The Air Manifold is secured to the table by two oversized holes . Under the table are two bolt heads. Those bolts actually run thru the oversized holes screwing into the manifold. Should the manifold be ever so slightly "cocked" either to the left or right , the tangency and adjustments you mentioned are affected.
A perfectly squared tone-arm means that when installing a cartridge the stylus tip should run perfectly in the center of the line located on the overhang adjustment guide. Often that is not the case for the entire line of 'Noll Tables. Should that key factory setting be a faction of a fraction of a degree off, it contributes to phono "dancing/wobbeling" in the grooves. Graves solution was to loosen the bolts readjust the manifold and WHA-La!
Have I made my explanation more clearly understood or am I missing something ?
Piedpiper, my appology for not providing a fuller explanation. I have aquired stacks of doctuments that dribbel out gem after gem of info . My problem is figuring how to release the gems and not the slush. My attempt was to be brief not vague. |
I believe I got you the first time but it still doesn't follow for me. If you don't use the pin to lock in the position of the overhang adjustment guide, anchoring the guide only at the platter spindle, overhang remains your only adjustment that effects tangency so long as you adjust the guide to the appropriate angle of the arms traverse. By definition, tangency is defined only by arm traverse and overhang.
BTW, Bob was famous for his casual approach to details of execution. I have done quite a bit to clean up my 'noll, as you know. |
The use of terms is whats mudding up the water. So lets drop them all . What Graves was relaying is simply:
What adjustments you make at the end of the tone-arm are dependent on on weither the manifold is square to the table. A fraction of a degree off presents significant challenges. Graves is one of many reviewers who made similar observations.
Thanks for your input. Perhaps I would do better to put out a E-Book complete with pics, history , reprints , manuals, Q&A, etc. and of course input from folks like you--What do you think ? The only problem is that so few 'Nolls were manufactured. Mr. D is quoted @ 1,700+ about 18 months before production stopped I doubt the effort is worth it. |
The operative here is how you use the overhang adjustment guide. If you use it the way I do, only in relation to the arm traverse and spindle, the issue you're talking about becomes irrelevent, in that the only thing that matters is whether the cartridge is aligned with the arm traverse and the spindle, not to the plinth. |
Piedpiper :
Lets re-think.
For visuals look at your owners manual page 7 , fig 6. , Tonearm/Spindle Layout. All Graves reported is that if your air manifold that holds the spindle is ever so slightly cocked to the "northerly" ( to the top of the page) or southerly ( to the bottom of the page) , the Tonearm/Spindle's relationship to the alignment guide has changed.
In a cocked position , the tonearm's relationship to the fixed position of the alignment guide is off, thereby, all other adjustment's are subject to error. Bring the manifold into proper square in relationship to the plith changes the tonearm's-headleshell's relationship via the fixed position of the alignment pin, thereby, all headshell cartridge adjustments made are now more accurate with less a chance for error.
Less error , less distortion, less cartridge wiggel more music. A fraction of a degree change in the position of the arm manifold ( ie squared) is the key to extracting the last ioda of sound from the 'Noll.
Graves noted that this and other adjustments need to be re-checked. A protractor/ruler or a T a square make the job a breeze. One can even "eyeball" the adjustment.
The challenge is getting access to the bolt-heads on the underside of the plith that usually means breaking the table down to make the adjustment easier to complete, re-assembleing the table before the other adjustments pages 8-15 can be completed. |
I have, over time, re-aligned my manifold several times when I have worked on the table, but only for asthetic reasons. Again, if you use the alignment pin to anchor the right end of the overhang guide, then what you're saying is correct. I am just pointing out that it is possible to not anchor the guide with the pin and, although it is slightly trickier, you can align the overhang and tangency by swiveling the alignment guide, anchored only at the spindle end, at the same time as moving the cartridge on the headshell until the stylus is aligned all the way along the line, while keeping the alignment guide stationary, once you've found the appropriate position. Although this is evidently tricky to communicate, it is quite easy to do and precludes having to make the adjustment you're talking about.
Sorry to invoke such long winded confusion. I just thought it was worth mentioning. |
Piedpiper : The benefit is that we now have two options , rather than one . Thanks for the input. |
Threaders: After weeks of "trial an'error" , today I had a flawless 5 hr test run of the air control system (ACS).
To summarize, the system produced 41 PSI running to the arm manifold and 2-3 PSI to the 50lb. lead platter . Its dead quiet with all pleniums, oil-water separators , air regulator/filter/control mech. and filters working so the end product is clean, dry air w/almost no oil smell and no air pulse-sations. The home-made airfilters were filled with carbon & zeolite granules capped under and over w/"aquia-Pure" 100 percent polyester fiber filter cut to size.
My estimate is the whole-shee-bang cost me $200 but what an improvement. Lots more to come . Today was only a test. Lots more to do with the table/arm and possible big surprizes w/cartridge.
In the future I intend to post pics after I master the use of a digital camera. |
congratulations! I'll be very curious to find out more details. |
Piedpiper : Thank you . I will post more details soon. |
Crem1
I took a little different approach even though it was one more piece of equipment. I hooked up a separate pump to the platter and left my large/high pressure for just my tonearm. Both systems have filters and pulsation bottles as you have described. I did this because running my larger compressor for the tonearm and platter was making my compressor run a little hot. So far very pleased with the results |
That's my plan as well. The problem is that the two of them take too much air and it's hard to get the pressure up sufficiently on the arm. Mine's running about 35 psi and I'd like to get it over 45. |
IMO, the arm performance at 45 and 50 psig is improved. I used a diaphram, oiless fish aquarium pump for platter. puts up about 5 psig and can run continously for weeks so its pretty reliable (and cheap). |
'smy experience too. What pump 'dyou get? |
It was the Renn model 400. About fifty bucks, it is a small quiet oil-less air pump that is designed to run continously. |
Thanks Oilman. I've been meaning to get a second pump but didn't want to spring for a serious one. |
Piedpiper : Have you checked your air control system , ACS( pleniums , filters and air/water seperators , hoses ,etc.) for leaks ? At 35 PSI that's 10 under what the super quite pump produces. Give 3 PSI for the platter than there is a 7 PSI lost somewhere. My experience has been that air leaks occurr with more frequency as the ACS expands. To assist in locating those leaks , Kano Labs sells an superior leak finder,Bubleak, for about $14 delivered (www.kanolabs.com.)
Case in point> a homemade air filter sprang a leak (again) ; the air regulator displayed a 4 PSI dropp in pressure to the arm manifold. I replaced the air filter and the pressure was back to 41 PSI.
Oilman : Have you tried placing a fan nearby the air pump ? The running fan can reduce the temp of the pump. |
yes, as a matter of fact did. It did cool the compressor. I was content with that until I moved and ended up with a spare air pump that I was using in a Koi pond at my last location. Decide to try it on the platter and found my cycle time on the big compressor dropped significantly because even at 5 pgig on the platter, it was using most of the air. I did not measure the flow but the cycle time dropped by 50% easily. Also this allowed me to beef up the system to the arm to run 50 psig. I have run it higher but much above 50 on my spindle you can start hearing the leak across the bearing. But I find the performance is better near 50 psig. I understand I also may need to "clean" out my spindle and arm if the air has not been properly filtered. |
What is the difference between the cheap $10 aquarium pumps from Walmart and the Renn? |
Answering my own question, I got one of the cheap pumps from Walmart and it didn't budge my platter; not enough psi I guess. |
Same type of pump only a larger version. The smaller pumps may not be able to put up the pressure. This one puts up about 5 psig. By the way, it is a Rena 400, i mis typed earlier. |
Threaders :
My Airadne rebuild has come to close , at least for now . The air control system is complete. Currently the air regulators dials show a constant air pressure of 43 PSI , the arm appears to operate better that ever -- sonic images float with nuances and timbers rivaling many analog platforms for a fraction of the price.
I want to be very up-front about this re-ferb. Firstly, I did not reinvent the wheel , nothing of the kind. I give all the credit to informatiom from print sources , the internet, L. Walker, B.D., P.S. and good 'Goners like you.
The result? I was able to collect and verify the effectiveness of dozens of tweeks the majority I applied to the table , tonearm , air control system and isolation of the table from electrical and mechanical vibrations.
A most significant tweek was to dynamicly balance the lead platter . The trick is to turn over the platter and using extreme caution sand out the micro abrasions and ripples until you can run your finger nails across feeling nothing. No small feat . Remember you are sanding lead so be forwarned safety gear is a must. Depending upon the condition of the platter 400-1500 ga wet-sanding may do the trick . Wet sand the record touching surface , rim-edges if micro-abrasions are evident. Dry and repaint the platter top and sides only . Leave the back as is . Dynamicaly balance and BAM BAM !!! What a difference. More problems lay hidden on the back side of the lead platters than has been published save Lumley 24 years ago.
I shall contiune the 'Noll quest and more is in the mix : Perhaps a custom phono cartridge & set-up , new arm wans but for now I want to enjoy the music. Cheers |
Crem1
I know what you mean about taking a break from the tweaks. I still have a ways to go to catch up to you and piedpiper but sometimes you just got to play the music for a while. However, the sound from this table is great. People who come over are astonished to hear the quality of the music. I have had more than one person question the quietness of the analog until they heard my table with a clean record and clean stylus. Now that I am finished with my move, I will look to finish my new wand and headshell project. It won't be a black diamond arm but hopefully a close clone |
Thanks Oilman , looking forward to your advances in the future. |
Threaders : Quick bomb. Should have the big Mo'Money go buy or audition the Soundsmith Strain Gauge package $6 -14K. The impact is beyond anything you have experienced. Draws the listener into a world of sound that is hard for me to express. Ruthlessly revealing . It's not for the weekender without the time for record cleaning and perfect set-up. An experience unlike all others in playback. Oh, check-out S/S cartridge or rebuilds. Lots for a couple of bucks but way down the line to the sound of the Strain Gauge. The web site, w's. soundsmith.com |
couple of walker tables advertized in that price range. I do not know anything about either one, but reviews are consistent about walkers product |
