New Hobby Ultrasonic Record Cleaning

@bjw54,

Your process of pre-clean first with a spin-clean (or vacuum RCM or manual in sink) and then final clean with ultrasonic is a time-tested record cleaning process when working with water-based cleaners.  

Large automated industry does essentially the same thing sometimes pre-cleaning with parts-washer and then ultrasonic or they have multi-bay ultrasonic units.  But, essentially, the process is the same:  pre-clean to get the big stuff and then final clean to get the small stuff (that is under the big junk)

@skypunk,

FWIW - this paper Vinyl Record Manual Cleaning Process (thevinylpress.com) Section VIII gives a basic intro to surfactants, and Section IX shows the differences between Triton X100 and Tergitol 15-S-7 (that you cannot buy) and Tergitol 15-S-9 that you can buy ( Tergitol 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 Surfactant | TALAS (talasonline.com). 

Tergitol 15-S-9 is a preferred non-ionic surfactant for record ultrasonic machines because you only need about a 0.01 to 0.025% solution for both superior wetting and some detergency and it has a high cloud point.  This low concentration equal to 100 to 250 ppm allows you to forgo the rinse step.  Triton X100 is a 50-yr design, and is not as efficient - it requires ~4 times to do the same, and because of the high concentration you really need to rinse otherwise you will leave surfactant behind. 

Tergikleen is a blend of  non-ionic surfactant Tergitol 15-S-3 which is not water soluble and Tergritol 15-S-9 which is water soluble.  Tergikleen will not foam because the Tergitol 15-S-3 is also a defoaming agent, and no Tergitol 15-S-3 + Tergritol 15-S-9 does not equal 15-S-7.

BE CAREFUL with alcohol.  There are DIY formulas using alcohol - and 20% used at just a few mL for vacuum RCM at room temp is a limited risk.  BUT, 20% alcohol is FLAMMABLE with a flashpoint of 85F.  So if you are operating that ultrasonic at 85 to 95F (with 100's to 1,000's mL), all you need is a spark (cigarettes are not a credible ignition hazard) and that tank (and maybe you and your house) just lit up.  And the vapors coming off the tank can form an EXPLOSION hazard - all that is required is a spark at 77F.  No ultrasonic tank you can afford is explosion-proof.  If you are dead-set on using alcohol in an ultrasonic tank keep it 2.5% or less.

One last item for this post - keep in mind that what you are mostly removing from the record is very small particulate - less than 50 micron and you cannot see it.  If you wait to change out the water until you see that it is cloudy, you probably waited too long.  There are many reports of people who cleaned with ultrasonic and made the record worse.  There is no easy way to measure particulate - TDS meters only measure dissolved ionic impurity.  But, there may be a correlation that is just based on time.  So, many DIY ultimately install a filtration system - small pump and standard Pentek 10" cartridge housing with ~0.5 micron nominal sediment filter - the lowest entry price for system that will work is about $100.   If interested - I can offer a design.  Note that the best filtration system with 0.2 micron absolute filter is about $350.

Hope this is of some help and as @slaw there are other posts here on Audiogon, and there is a running post at VPI Forum vpiforum.com • View topic - Record cleaning, as well as on other audio forums, the conflicting info on what cleaner works best notwithstanding.

@ jehowlind,

There is an on-going thread here  Degritter Users | Steve Hoffman Music Forums that you may find of interest.  When reading be aware that those in UK cannot buy Triton X100; it is an environmental hazard (kills fish) and eventually will stop all worldwide manufacture sometime in the future.  And, as I said above - non-ionic surfactant Triton X100 is very different from Tergikleen that has a non-soluble ingredient and appears by the thread (very recent entries) above to leave a residue.

@skyscraper,

How about $21.75 for a pint -  Tergitol 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 Surfactant | TALAS (talasonline.com).  What Amazon and the labs are selling is spectrographic grade with a nice brown bottle and label and a certificate of analysis (CoA).  Otherwise, they are the same, and the Talas source is what I specified in my paper.  Talas is re-packaging, but so is most everyone else - DOW does not sell Triton or Tergitol surfactants to the general public in small quantities.

@orthomead,

Note of caution:  5% IPA has a flash point of 50C (122F); so when heated to 45C (113F) and above you start getting close; and yes I know you have never had a problem.  Not to belabor the risk, but as equipment ages from use, the electrical contacts wear, capacitors age and the risk for arcs & sparks increases.  

Otherwise, 3% IPA  can lower the surface tension of water from 72 dynes/cm to ~55 dynes/cm, so at least for IPA, the small amount of IPA causes a pretty big drop.  I do not have surface tension the data for ethanol (which will likely have methanol as the denaturant).

The Kirmuss statements on ultrasonic frequency are pure nonsense.  The science of ultrasonic cleaning is well understood and well documented such as detailed in this book -  Particle Adhesion and Removal | Wiley Online Books.  Fundamentally the lower the frequency the larger the bubble that is created. So, a 40kHz unit will produce bubbles in the size of about 75 microns. These are not going to get into the record groove. The Degritter 120kHz will produce bubbles about 20 microns and these can get into the groove. But, the larger bubble produces more energy when it collapses (cavitation) so there is fluid agitation around the collapsing event that can provide cleaning. How violent the bubble collapse is determined by the amount of power provided by the transducers. So, a low power 40kHz unit may be safe for soft metal (jewelry) while a 40kHz high power unit (used to clean carburetors) may not. The higher kHz smaller bubble by their size are limited to how violent they can collapse - so a high powered 120kHz unit has less potential for damage than a high power 40 kHz. So, fundamentally, if you follow the logic - the lower frequency units (40 kHz) are good for larger soil surfaces and particles while the higher frequency units (80-132kHz) are better at removing smaller particles.

@garyalex,

10 drops = about 0.5 mL; 1-gal =  3785 mL, so 0.5/3785 = 0.0132%.  I wrote the following as the 1st post of this 2nd page of this thread -  "Tergitol 15-S-9 is a preferred non-ionic surfactant for record ultrasonic machines because you only need about a 0.01 to 0.025% solution for both superior wetting and some detergency and it has a high cloud point. This low concentration equal to 100 to 250 ppm allows you to forgo the rinse step."

So, your 10 drops/gal is in the zone. 

@rajivhifi,

In the same post I referenced above, I also said:  "Triton X100 is a 50-yr design, and is not as efficient - it requires ~4 times to do the same, and because of the high concentration you really need to rinse otherwise you will leave surfactant behind."  Triton X100 you can buy Amazon.  Depending on your system (how resolving is it) and your own hearing (how acute/sensitive) you may not hear the effect of the residue which tends to effect the higher frequencies >5000 Hz.

@bianchi27

If the cleaner is dissolved/soluble in the water, sediment filters >0.1 micron will not remove the cleaner. However, for cleaners such as Tergikleen that are a combinations of a soluble chemical Tergitol 15-S-9 and insoluble Tergitol 15-S-3, the insoluble chemical which exists as an emulsion may be filtered-out depending on how fine is the filter. L’Art Du Son also contains an insoluble chemical that may be filtered out. Alcohol, Triton X100, Tergitol 15-S-9, & ILFORD ILFOTO are all soluble and will pass through sediment filters. However, activated charcoal filters can partially remove some soluble chemicals.  Many people use pumps/sediment filters to extend US bath life.

"5-chloro-2-methyl-4-isothiazoline-3-one and 2-methyl-2H-isothiazol-3-one"

The above is just an anti-microbial agent added for shelf-life.  This free book - Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press goes into detail on ILFORD ILFOTOL - just search ILFOTOL.  Depending on what version you have, it's a simple diluted nonionic surfactant (with anti-microbial for shelf-life) of about 95% or 97.5% water.   Given that it is mostly water, there are more concentrated nonionic surfactants such as Tergitol 15-S-9 Tergitol 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 Surfactant | TALAS (talasonline.com) that are much cheaper of a known concentration that will perform equal if not better (book addresses).

Should it be rinsed - that all depends on what concentration you use.  If the in-use nonionic surfactant concentration is >0.005% you may need to rinse depending on how sensitive your hearing and how resolving your system.  At >0.01%, you should rinse to avoid audible impact (tends to dampen/smear the high frequencies) and junk on your stylus.