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New Construction Acoustic Design & Consulting

I need a professional consultant to work with my architect to help build as perfect a listening room over my garage as possible. RIVES is one possibility but I don't want to spend 10K just for the consulting work. I would like to build in as much sound isolation and room treatment as possible like that done for this person:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm--

Could I use ASC as a primary consultant and RIVES for after the room is built to do the final touch ups and room treatment? They only charge $100 for the engineer to help render sketches and make suggestions for the contractor.

acousticsciences.com

I would need detailed plans so that the architect would know how to impliment the built-in bass traps etc. I would need help with the specifics of window and door selection (materials) and placement, room dimensions, ceiling slope, floating floor, isolation etc... Please also see the list of ideas below. RIVES charges a fortune to render drawings based on a computer modeling system. I am not sure all of that makes sense until after the room is built, furnished and then tested, but certainly it is advantageous to build in as much acoustic isolation and treatment as possible from an aesthetic and cost perspective. Please comment on some of the suggestions below:

Room sizes

13X21X8 Feet
14 X18X8 Feet

windows o.k.
According to Dave Wilson

1. pitch ceiling height lower over speakers, higher over listener
2. Build bass traps into the wall
3. Corner loaded bass traps
4. Bass trap all four vertical corners and the ceiling perimeter corner with a soffit bass trap
5. Room dimensions:
Must over-size room by minimum of 6 inches walls, floor, and ceiling to allow for buildouts for acoustic treatments and sound isolation
A. 13-15 feet wide by 15-23 feet long
B. Room height 7-9 feet
must account for additional height of "floating floor"
C. Wall/stud resonance treatment and constrained layer damping: 1. Sandwich two layers of sheetrock. ? Gyproc Soundbloc 1.5 soundproofing plasterboard 2. Suspend sheetrock off studs by screwing into resilient metal fir strips called "z-metal" or "RC-1" 2. Visco damping material {1/16 " thick double sided adhesive visco-elastic sheet} is applied between the z-metal and the first sheet rock layer and a second visco-elastic sheet between the first and second layers. In place
of double sided adhesive visco-elastic sheet, can 100% glue to both sides a layer of sound board {firtex or celotex}. ? Staggered studs. The ceiling must be treated the same way.
D. Locate entry door behind the listner but on a SIDE WALL {nowhere near the speakers since the door will raddle} NOT ON A BACK WALL AND not flush to the corner and at least 2 feet from the corner. Door cannot rattle? Heavy acoustic door/frame?
E. Windows are very tympanic and should be avoided. Tall narrow windows are best.
Must not use standard thermal type instead use 2 layers of thick laminated glass [like that used for glass shelving in stores] separated by at least 4 inches of air space. The air space must be vented into the wall cavity. Set the glass into a bed of visco-elastic damping material. The glass sheets should be of different thicknesses.
F. Lighting should be subdued, indirect, and dimmable. Do not use standard wall dimmers since they will often hum or buzz. Use a variable voltage transformer. Consider low voltage lighting. Do not use ceiling cans, they rattle. The best light has a ceiling bezel and lens of thick rounded glass. Consider creating a false ceiling to hide projector, cabling, HVAC
ventilation big problem if room needs to be airtight to insure adequate sound isolation and room damping from the rest of the house
G. Address side wall, rear wall, and ceiling reflections which are determined by speaker placement. Room dimensions must account for acoustic panels
dbk

Showing 4 responses by mikelavigne

mikelavigne
2,216 posts
 
i admit i'm biased to the path i choose regarding room design. i had spent 9 years learning and observing cause and effect in my room acoustics and other's rooms. i had read countless articles and opinions......looked at lots of products......spoken to a few different acoustical 'experts'. i had tried to 'bandaid' my own previous room.

i came to the conclusion that even though i had accumulated a good deal of 'feel' for acoustics that if i had the opportunity to start from scratch that getting someone that REALLY knew his stuff......and then allowing them the chance to 'do it all and do it right' was best for me.

consensus is not the path to acoustical truth......this is science applied to art.....get thee a designer that makes sense to you.....your ears will thank you.
mikelavigne
2,216 posts
 
Stehno, as my article and above post spell out.....i do clearly think that if a person has a relatively 'clean sheet of paper' to start with.....getting a single comprehensive professionally created plan makes the most sense for most audiophiles.......and ultimately worth the money. one must choose the budget and construction quality one is comfortable with. the designer can go modest with treatments or exotic. in any case a cohesive plan is best.

i believe trying to assemble an ecclectic assembly of different acoustical treatments and philosphies into a project without a fundamental scientific and experiencial basis does not have a high probability for success. there are many techie audiophiles that do have the knowledge and experience to design their own room......the issue is a true understanding of acoustical cause and effect.

if i did change my mind on my particular audio path (either regarding gear or room design philosphy) i would admit it even if it might be considered silly. in fact; i have changed directions a few times as i have gone down the learning path as an audiophile......i am currently changing speakers from the very simple Kharma Exquisite to the quite complicated Von Schweikert VR9's. turns out the new room really reveals the shortcomings of the Exquisite in low bass performance. i asked the designer to design the ultimate room.....not the best room for my speakers. if the Exquisites are not up to it.....i'll move on.

in the past i've gone from solid state amps to tubes.......from active pre's to passive......from Wilson's to Kharma's.

if, after a time, i have problems with my room acoustics.....i'll change them. all the bass trapping can be closed up completely or partially and dampning can be added or subtrackted......i don't anticipate any need to do these things.....but i am not so ego-invested that i would forgo changes if that was best. i try to keep my mind and ears open.

i am enjoying my journey and hope to keep learning.
mikelavigne
2,216 posts
 
Michael; i assume your post is directed at me. this thread was started by Dbk....who mentioned the 'floating floor'. my floor is directly glued to the concrete and is real wood venier over a composite wood base....very solid. my site is very dry and i keep my room temperature constant...so a glued floor will work.

my walls are all non-parallel although they are not sloped.....the ceiling was quite involved....including coffering and chambers.

if you read my article you know my choice of contractor was one that i had a 20 year relationship with. i have done 15 or so projects totaling over $5M with this guy. his forman is an artist and that skill was needed.

i completely agree with your advice and followed it myself.
mikelavigne
2,216 posts
 
Stehno, no need to apologize...no offense taken.

you and i both agree on the 'art' factor of the Exqusites....they always brought me pleasure just looking at them...the VR9's are at best 'industrial'. to be fair.....my VR9's will be in Piano Black; which should look quite a bit better than the silver at CES.
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