Again, bs tales.
To each his own.
R.
Showing 18 responses by rauliruegas
That last post wins the bs of the year. Who posted think that audio items have a top secret in the design. That kind of design or re-designs does not exist yet and when the designer thinks in that way just patented as the FCL and that's. The audio system of the person who posted: who cares? Several of his posts are full of that kind of bs information that never helps any one . There is everykind of stupid things in the world, such is life.
R. |
Dear @dover : first those Technics tonearms are not EPC but EPA 100 and 100MK2 and I owned both. I mounted several cartridges on it and I can't really remember if I mounted really a low compliance cartridge. I think the lower compliance model I own is the 103 and it's not really a so low compliance and no I never mounted in the EPA's.
R. |
Dear @dover : " I’m not talking of " control of energy ..." but about how that " superior control in unipivot vs gimball " is sensed by the cartridge cantilever with its negative effects vs gimball.
The FCL designer posted and I pasted here:
""" The classic unipivot tonearm can sound quite good but has some serious drawbacks. First of all, we never could get used to the handling of the wobbling ........ Another, often OVERLOOKED POINT IS THE FACT,THAT ALL THE ENERGY FROM THE TONEARM IS DERIVED AT THIS TINY POINT ( bearing. ) INTO THE TONEARM BASE. THE ENERGY THAT A CARTRIDGE TRANSFER INTO THE ARM WAND when playing an LP IS ENORMOUS and THE ENERGY TRANSFER AT THE BEARING POINT IS VERY CRITICAL. "
So the feedback goes to the cantilever with that same energy along other developed " movements " that develops higher kind of distortions. You don’t like Technics but other than the AT 1100 has the lower friction bearing levels that any non-unipivot tonearm and not even a bat can hear that " rattling " you are talking about .
In the other side your stupidity levels gone higher when posted:
" most cartridges have a cantilever is by definition unipivot "
for me your statement is not an hilarious one but the stupidity of the century when you are comparing it against the arm unipivot. Think a little of that stupid comparison Certainly makes sense to you and as usually and as @mijostyn posted talking of one of your post s you act with some audiophiles as he and specially me where always try to hit in any way but unfortunatelly you never have success and you never will.
R.
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Dear @mikelavigne : As I said is what you like it. " no, not more distortion ", well that you or me don’t know for sure ( the FCL is not a perfect arm but with several critical issues that develops distortions. At the end is an unipivot design and all kind of developed distortions pass trhough the pivot trhough one single " point " with no real opportunity to dissipates it and the developed feedback pass trough that single " point " when in a gimball those distortions pass trhough a bearing with more than one point ( in the EPA 100 are 25 ruby balls. ) that helps to dissipates it and feedback too. That 12" arm wand is not at least tapered so higher distortions down there too.) ), what we know is that in audio almost all is about DISTORTIONS different kind and different levels. Everithing in the system puts its self " colorations " that depending of our MUSIC/sound targets makes that we like it more " this cartridge than the other one " or this TT vs a different one " and the like. I already said twice: an unipivot characteristic is its aliveness that in reality is higher distortion, you can’t do nothing about. At each single link in any audio system are developed distortions no matters what and the best we can do it’s to put at minimum its effects on what we listen or to put where those " colorations " been " better " for our ears/brain. You can name those several kinds of distortions as you want it but at the end its name is DISTORTION and believe me your room/system is not free of that, no one is. Anyway, it’s really good that you not only are satisfied with but you are enjoying the MUSIC as never before, fine ! !
R. |
Dear @chris_g : " I’m referring to anyone that started listening to analog after the year 2000. There are true users, and then there are hipsters!!! " The audio world is a complex one and you have in this analog forum gentlemans that listen digital,LP,R2R and even casette and I can tell you that 22 years are a lott of years to learn what to do to improve your MUSIC/audio enjoyment no matters the media. Hipsters exist only in your mind/imagination.
R. |
Dear @mikelavigne : "" what do i mean by fast? i’m hearing considerably more information, ""
First the signal information is what each cartridge it self can pick up and depends that the alignment set up between tonearm/cartridge be accurated and that the resonance frequency be inside de ideal frequency range. You/we can’t get more information from the LP recorded grooves what we can get is a different kind of presentation of all those recorded information.
It’s not easy to translate in objective terms our subjective appreciations. You said " fast " but the word could be not the rigth one because what the stylus tip movements pick-up and translate in an electrical signal pass directly to the the tonearm wire does not matters in which tonearm the cartridge is mounted that path does not changes and in a 12" the signal can’t be faster than in a 9"-10.5" tonearm that have shorter wires. So, what really happens ( to me ) is the FCL presentation is different and certainly with a signature/colorations ( developed distortions ) that are what you are perceiving. Many of those colorations comes from the kind and levels the tonearm hnadled the developed distortions and especially with signal transients information. It’s a true departure for what you was accustom to with your other tonearms?, I could say not a real departure but something different that at this moment like you more that what you listened with your other tonearms.
Remember that I posted that unipivots " looks " as has or puts " aliveness " to what we listen through it vs non-unipivots tonearm designs? that kind of aliveness is part of unipivots and maybe is what you are translating as " fast " but not more information.
Certainly I can be wrong with all those but today it's my take about your susbjective explanation.
Btw, I own the original Grieg London recording.
R.
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@mijostyn : I know that it's a reviewer opinion from M.Fremer that is totally biased to SAT analog items but even that in his review of the SAT 75+K DD turntable and with same carrtridges he said in his review:
" The XD1 shares some sonic characteristics with Rega's revolutionary RP10 turntable: ultrafast, clean transients throughout the audible frequency range; tight, fast bass; revealing midrange transparency; and overall sonic stability and focus. All these characteristics result, apparently, from careful attention paid to structural rigidity and the removal or prevention of unwanted vibrational energy. ""
Those words are " precious " for the RP10 and seriously could puts in the TTs big league when the Rega price is a " laughable " lower than 6K.
Just imagine if its price after those MF words been seated at 50K ! !
I have to say that I have an eye on it and maybe you need to think about as an " spare " unit.
R.
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Dear @mijostyn : Yes, 12" could be for " sex " not for tonearms. I was really satisfied with all of my over 6-8 12" tonearms including the bs of FR66, SAEC’s and the like till I learned.
M.Gomez was very clear about stiffness and rigidity as a main primary target of any tonearm designer . As you said and I know that you don’t need to listen to it the FCL goes against not only the main tonearms design targets but as you said has other issues. I understand why gentlemans like the unipivots and it’s mainly because its aliveness characteristic that it’s not other thing that higher distortions/colorations. Fine with me but thank you:no any more.
@rsf507 the tonearms posted by mijostyn are all good alternatives for you. Now, exist a TT/tonearm very good alternative and that’s is the Rega RP10 that comes with the new RP2000 tonearm that as no one tonearms is a perfect one but a challenge for any other tonearm and I don’t know if Rega has on sale as a stand alone item. As everything in audio analog always exist trade-offs in all audio items but this Rega is a winner and for that price TT/tonearm combination I could say is the century bargain.
Btw, that Glanz review comes for a reviewer where his reference is the FR66, go figure but additional to that is a long tonearm 12" and I can say expensive for.
ere reviews of the Rega that I think are interestings for almost all of us:
https://www.tonepublications.com/review/rega-rp10-turntable/
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R
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Dear friends and @mijostyn : The OP thread is aBOUT THE sat TONEArm but mike brougth here the FCL unipivot tonearm design and posted " serious " statements about his experiences wioth that tonearm like: " the FCL is doing things that no other arm can do " that with out explanation in true has no sense and till today he does not gives us that explanation.
Anyway, when talking of tonearm designs some of you already know that some of us as @mijostyn and me just do not like unipivot designs and for very good reasons. I owned and still own unipivots ( but I don't use it any more. ) as the Naim Aro ( not bad at all. ), Grace ones I think Stax and the like.
The FCL designer says that with his field copil bearing desing all is solved and he says:
""" We always were fascinated by the simplicity and purity of the unipivot bearing design. The classic unipivot tonearm can sound quite good but has some serious drawbacks. First of all, we never could get used to the handling of the wobbling arm wand. This makes everyday use very unpleasant. A classic unipivot tonearm has also an unfavorable ratio of tonearm balance and bearing point. The center of gravity of the tonearm is much deeper than the bearing point and that leads to a high moment of inertia. Another, often OVERLOOKED POINT IS THE FACT,THAT ALL THE ENERGY FROM THE TONEARM IS DERIVED AT THIS TINY POINT ( bearing. ) INTO THE TONEARM BASE. THE ENERGY THAT A CARTRIDGE TRANSFER INTO THE ARM WAND when playing an LP IS ENORMOUS and THE ENERGY TRANSFER AT THE BEARING POINT IS VERY CRITICAL. "
This last disadvante on unipivots is , as he said, CRITICAL and we can't avoid it because Law's Newton are what are and that ENERGY appears again in the arm wand as feedback in more critical way than in non-unipivot tonearm designs. That huge energy develops high distortions type that the cartridge pick up ones and again. Every kind of energy/resonance, vibrations, distortions pass through that single point and return through its. Very bad.
The FCL designer says: " and sonically performance unmatched by any other uni-pivot tonearm design. " Obviously that the designer took care not to post " unmatched by any other tonearm " but only unipivots.
Mike likes it a lot the FCL when compared with the Tosca but he in some ways was accustomed to unipivots when for years he owned the Durand ones. In the other side the Tosca and the FCL are not only totally different designs but his FCL is 12" long and we all read here ( in objective terms not subjective . ) why shortest tonearms is the way to go . I have to mention too that been an unipivot FC or not the 12" has a higher torsional microscopic movements than any 9"-10" tonearm and his sample is made of wood. Other characteristic could be that the internal FCL wiring and headshell cartridge connectors be different in the Tosca than in the FCL, only these different characteristics along the 12" long sure that makes differences and in objective way I can't see why those differences could be for the better.
We all know that not all what " shines " is gold and I respect the mike opinion but I like to go alittle deeper in my observations that ceratinly can be true or not .
Anyway, that's my opinion with out listen the FCL and as @mijostyn with the SAT not only I don't need a new tonearm but I certainly do not buy even if the money is no object.
R.
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@mikelavigne : " but the FCL adds more realism and expressiveness. " Are those things what you posted here or something else?
R. |
Dear @mikelavigne : "" the FCL is doing things that no other arm can do. ""
That's a serious statement, so I would like to ask: like what things?
Thank's in advance.
R. |
Dear @dover : First I was refering to the Netherlands new field coil unipivot not the Kuzma and in the other side ruby and sapphire is the same material with same characteristics and only different color.
So " touching " you are.
R. |
I forgot, that boron tonearm is the Technics EPA 100MK2. @mijostyn and guess what? it's not a neutral design and it's a just neutral tonearm quality performance as till today no other tonearm design.
R. |
Dear friends : Please take a moment and think a little about those developed cartridge/tonearm/LP/TT circuit.
All generated non-grooves signal movements/vibrations can't be avoided at 100%, we could put at minimum in many ways as can be changing its frequency response where does less harm or through a well damped tonearm design or, or, or,.
Why cartridge designers cantilever choice material in its top designs is Boron or Diamond? well both materials have the higher Young Modulus than any other materials, those kind of material that's critical for that cantilever cartridge role to at least try to put at minimum additional movements/vibrations by the cantilever it self.
Kuzma ruby choice material for its arm wand design was trying to take in count how ruby behave with vibrations and feedback.
To my knowlege the best well damped tonearm design was designed using Boron trhough all its parts and especially at the arm wand and is a unique and the only tonearm manufactured with that material that is not easy to works with.
The SAT is rigid and well damped tonearm and I don't know if that new unipivot design arm in reality is well damped and rigid that's more important that that field coil bearing control. Even the designer talks of " low resonance arm wand " but no single word about vibrations or damping by the material blend of the tonearm. We will see when @mikelavigne could share his first hand experiences in his room/system.
R.
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Dear @mijostyn : About your concern of neutral balance, it's ok in theory but there are other really critical tonearm design issues to really try helps to the cartridge job and yes as you and @dover as tighter the cartridge/headshell mount as the better.
I think that the main target for a tonearm designer is not only that the cartridge be hold and makes the cartridge tracking ridding in the best way but its intrinsecal relationship between these to analog items and I'm refering how to put at minimum all the vibrations developed by the cartridge/LP ridding that holds by the tonearm where those vibrations pass through as the feedback and own tonearm self develped vibrations.
That's for me is the must critical issue that affects in way different directions and in reality are what puts each one tonearm colorations in what we are listening.
Yes, bearing type and design is crucial too but we have to remember that arm/cartridge/LP/TT/plattform function not only as a transducer but live in a way imperfect audio analog world where even the " air " that surrounded can have effects in the final performance.
Put at minimum the developed vibrations for me is the name of the game.
Here, again, the SAT designer/manufacturer white papers on rigidity, vibrations and resonance:
The saphire Kuzma arm wand confirm what is my take about. In the other side as you I'm not a fan of the tonearm unipivot designs a for the same good reasons ( several ) that you already know and in the link that Mike posted is precisely an unipivot design and we can read manufacturer statements with out any kind of measures/facts that confirm those statements. No, I don't listen it never but:
• Torsional motion feedback control in real time
In real time could means or not that that kind of control happens when is happening ? an unipivot is unstable but here the manufacturer says " high tortional stability ". What really means that under play?
ultra low ressonance arm wand. Well the best tonearms said the same.
Anyway, this unipivot looks as something to experience but any one of you can be sure that what you will sound with are only a different kind of colorations. How much different? I don't know but those differences have a intrinsecal relationship with which cartridge is mounted, the room/system resolution and certainly with the MUSIC/sound targets/priorities of the tonearm owners.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |