New 55,000 Euro tonearm

Bear in mind I have Zero Interest in this Tonearm, I do not aspire to going down this route to achieve the design or manufacture procedures used for this product.

Following sharing the Link to the SAT CF 109, only with the intention of showing the attached price tag.

I have received the following from an individual who I trust, and has claimed to have had a direct communication with Leif Johannson and quoted something that is in line with a conversation that took place quite recently.

Leif Johannson, chief developer at Ortofon, also uses a SAT tonearm when developing his top systems. In Munich he told me that with the SAT he would hear the "faults" of the cartridges and not the tonearm, which is very important for the development and tuning of his cartridges.
 

I have been through a variety of Branded Tonearms over the years and swapped out arms as and when one was discovered that was being perceived to be able to perform without contributing to the sonic and being more transparent.

In a nutshell and as a very layman's description when the Tonearm was appearing to have got out of the way of having a influence on the presentation, a decision would be made as to whether this was the most desirable trait and the one to aspire to.

This ended up with a SME IV being in use for many years and selected over the V, as I was not able to detect a significant difference between the two on the day I was able to be demonstrated both in use, in the same set up and room.

At a later date the Audiomods Series V Micrometer was added to the options for a Tonearm to use on the home system.

The above two Tonearms are aligned in similarities in how they present a musical performance.

It is a very tough call, but I have kept the Audiomods close at hand and is the most frequent occasionally used Tonearm from a Brand.

I have an understanding of the impression a Tonearm has made on the above contributors and how a certain model has stood out and the words to describe the impression being made are not to easy to attain.

My understanding is resulting from a Tonearm I use today as my go to Tonearm.      It has undergone a complete rethink and design of all the mechanical interfaces, and has been machined to enable the use of parts that are modern and much more fit for the purpose of the selected roles.

I have heard this Tonearm originally as an early concept design, in another system being compared to a range of TT's and Tonearms. There was enough detected to trigger my interest.

I also heard the Tonearm go through a evolving design, to the point it has become a item that is offered to be produced for an individual.

At this stage I have heard it compared to the Audiomods arm in another system and the outcome was my acquiring the redesigned Tonearm.

In the home system, this Tonearm has as good as shelved the Audiomods and the SME IV is permanently on the Sub's Bench.

There is not a comparison in the transparency perceived between the arms, the Branded arms are coloured and able to produce quite noticeable distortion, which is detected as a rather flat uninspiring presentation, the performance is not free to develop, it is constrained.

The alternative to this is a presentation where there there is a shaping to a performance, there is a real sense of a unconstrained presentation, there is also a undeniable resolution created, where the replay is present with a form, there is a new to myself dimension added to shaping an instrument, a vocal or note, the perception being created is very different to a typical separation of a vocalist or instrumentation.

I don't know how much it will cost for myself to achieve a presentation that comes close to this from a Branded Tonearm, but I don't feel the need to look for a variant of this any longer, there is great satisfaction in the place I am at.

This is all available without the option to use the alternative internal wiring I have been instrumental in encouraging trials with.

I know through the demonstrations received the new internal wire has been a very good choice and compliments the precision of the materials and mechanics that are selected for this arm.   

I am looking on occasion to find a shortcoming in the Tonearms performance, this will be carried out as a very subjective assessment, using many years of experiences of differing equipment to draw on.

If I take care with the preparation for such times and follow the disciplines I have developed for the replay of Vinyl in my listening environment, I find it very hard to find a detractor or an element of unwanted influence from the Tonearms usage.          

@dover I am potentially sharing in a experience like yourself on a different Tonearm.

Tonearms from a Large Brand, especially one produced from a vintage era are produced to work within a budget and this in itself will impact on the machining requirements and materials that are selected to used at the mechanical interfaces. 

Role the clock forward and give the Tonearm a introduction to modern design materials that can be used to supersede the original used materials, with identifying modifications that can be applied that will enable the exchange materials to function at their optimum.

The interfaces that are in use on the original design are when compared to a modern design concept the the Tonearm, speedily able to identify the earlier design is impeded by the use of materials produced used from the era of production.

I am using a Tonearm from a Vintage Period that has undergone modifications to enable materials produced in Japan with a modern design approach to be used to supersede the original parts used at a mechanical interface.

I am also able to visit and be demonstrated a modern produced Tonearm based around the design of the modified Vintage design model I am using.

Each Tonearm are extremely impressive and are able to make any of my recollections of other Tonearms either owned/used or demonstrated over time seem to not have the capabilities on offer from these Tonearms ( A Personal Subjective Evaluation of Course ) 

Note: The methods used on the Vintage Tonearm are not merely a swap out of a part, each Interface has been carefully considered and addressed, where the part selected has been considered and any requirements to enable it to function as a optimised part has been produced.

The attention to detail has included the removable SME Headshell Connection, that has been reproduced and has been A/B demonstrated, where the new design has shown to be a notable improvement.

There are a host of minor changes that have a much improved effect on the function of a interface and materials are incorporated that have a improved management of transferred energies.

From my knowledge, there is not much more to be produced from the engineer working with the Tonearm redesign on the mechanical interfaces.

Internal Wiring is now the route being investigated to see where there is opportunities to exploit the values on offer from the work already produced.

The requirements within the Tonearm to ensure the routing of wire has been  thoroughly interrogated and the effect of the wire within the Tonearm, has now been shown to have a Zero Impact on the Bias.

With the knowledge attained there are limited wires identified that are to be able to maintain the present produced function, it is a case of trying out the options as they are becoming available.

The present status is,  the ideal wire is discovered for use, as a result of deselecting other suitable wire types.

The good outcome for myself is that I am now using a Tonearm that makes an extremely good impression, especially to the point I choose to no longer use respected Branded Tonearm Models on a regular basis any longer.

The more interesting outcome for the present time, is that the preferred Tonearm is now in a position where it can be offered up as a Donor, to receive the additional measures produced, that through being invited as a attendee to receive demonstrations of the work undertaken, are able to show very noticeable changes for the better. 

That is not too bad a place to be for a Tonearm that in its present condition, is one that has ended my search for a Tonearm that offers a very satisfying performance. 

Revisiting the OP, I would like to think that a Tonearm that costs +50K has had its design team live and breathe the options to be considered / used to get it to the levels of performance the price suggests it should offer. It does seem strange that the predecessor at $30K is unashamedly referred to as having a bearing that is inferior, this is deduced from the producers referencing that the Successor Models are offered with a improved stiffer bearing.

Is the product a performer that stands out over the masses and one to aspire to, or is it a Talk the Talk item with a modern approach to selection of the used materials  with a only above average performance, offered at a very high price. Where the only justification for the asking price is from what is to be discovered in the sales spiel.   

Again as said previously, I don't intend to or feel it is necessary to allocate this type of money to a Tonearm, I am not even sure my curiosity would have it put it on a shortlist of demonstrations to be party to at a commercial event if it were present.   

@dover I am not owning a broad selection of Tonearms, but I have had approx' 8 Branded Tonearms used throughout a almost 30 year period and have 6 Branded Models still owned and available to use as well as the modified model.

The bulk of the Tonearms are all with design and materials from another era, and then there is the model with the redesign and modern materials selected for usage.

As I own a original Spec Model of the Tonearm that is modified, I am well aware of how far it has developed as a modified model. I have also been able to have it compared to the other models that are owned, that are seen as recommendations at other threads where inquiries are being met with advice.

I feel the way I have gone about attaining my end game Tonearm design has a uniqueness and air of bespoke, attached to it. The Tonearm is certainly not going to be available to a large number of owners, even thought the annual orders for having one produced are usually fully booked. Hence, why the designer has been very supportive in assisting with the design for the model that is built from scratch and is proving to be a very attractive model, this direction for the design will be a legacy for the original design.

The upbeat side of this method used to attain a Tonearm carrying the qualities that are very attractive, is that it has been a very fair cost to get on board, a Sale of a few Tonearms will cover the costs if break even was required.  

I have not got any beef with the models of Tonearm on offer like the Sat offering, where I am a little skeptical is how it has sky rocketed in the retail price over a reasonably short period of time.

There is no doubt that there are individual that are with the monies available to enable them to express an interest in the device. The concern is whether the pricing is as seen, because of the individuals who are willing to spend this type of money on a Tonearm, or if the Tonearm is of such a design that the production cost creates a base model that demands this type of price.

Bearing in mind the SAT models have found their way to speedily increase in retail value over a short period of time.

From my external and limited investigations, there seems to be a small selection of Brands that are creating a niche market, where they are not expecting too many sales, but are meeting with customers or customers representatives who are only looking to have an exclusivity associated with their purchases, and are willing to purchase at a price that naturally manifests the air of exclusivity.

@lewm The engineer knows all the places where his Tonearm work is discussed.

If they choose not to join a place and contribute, then that is fine on my end.

I have made it known what equipment I use in a variety of threads so I am not secretive.

It is quite obvious as well that I don't promote products and will always encourage a demonstration is experienced before an assessment is given on any device of interest.

If an interested individual is in the UK, or in Mainland Europe, and was to be receiving a demonstration, I am sure something can be arranged to make a demonstration happen, as there are quite a few users of these Tonearms across the UK and in Mainland Europe.

I will not be parting with any unique design information about any of the Bespoke Built Devices that I own. I have been quite amused when at a public event, by the odd individual asking quite a few questions, and then being seen trying to capture images of the Internal of an amp through a Vent, and then even being more cheeky, later in the event asking if the Amps Base Plate could be removed to let them see inside.

I would not entertain such a request, I am too polite to tell such a type to 'be on their way' any attempt by myself to support such an individual, would be a betrayal of trust to the designer / builder. 

In my mind when one buys into Bespoke, they inherit a responsibility to protect the knowledge used on the design from the designer / builder.

I believe that my vigilant maintenance of this position, is the one that has allowed me to maintain friendships with designers of my equipment for more than 30 years and allow the new relationships to develop that have become available throughout this period.

I certainly won't be jeopardising these relationships, as a result of a voiced dissatisfaction with a content of offered information on a forum.

@lewm I make you absolutely correct, there is not nothing really new, but there is a uniqueness to some items that is more than the sum of the parts. Hence, it has been made known there has been a thought out process for the selection of Parts and Materials and a consideration given for the machining at the interfaces, where different tolerances were tried to discover the optimum.

As for the Parts and Materials, I have been personally familiarised with all the items to be used, and have been informed of the preparations that are required to enable the parts to function at their optimum.

The parts are not my concern, neither are the tolerances selected for the  machining for the mounting of the parts. This is the designers only to share, if they feel it is an information that should be made public.

What really matters is that I am without reservations for the entirety of the product, as an assembled Tonearm in perform admirably. 

The flak towards another is expected, I see it used constantly, it is certainly a  common thread woven through most post is a Topic under discussion.

I will not let it deter myself from being a participant, as said I have mainly all Bespoke produced devices, it is easy to comprehend that these produce sound, where it gets more difficult is to explain where the level of SQ lies.

A description of a experience is better than an explanation.

At a public attended event where my entire system was used for public demonstrations over the course of a weekend, it proved during the non show hours difficult to vacate the allocated room, as their were no shortage of other guests with systems to demonstrate wanting to be in my room.

During the Public attended period, the demonstration room was never less than full capacity for a large proportion of the event, in the late afternoon a couple of individuals were in the room who had been in the room a few times during the day, and were keen to have a few of there brought along LP's replayed and keen to share in a talk.

I was informed by the visitors that they were a TT Manufacturing Company and were producing TT's in the 50K region and selling to very wealthy clients. There assessment of my system was that it was in their minds on Par with systems they have heard in the 250K region, and I had produced quite a impressive system.

A selection of the local HiFi Club, who have heard many high quality systems at dealerships and at events, as well as within the Club, have rated my system from receiving auditions in my home listening environment, as one of the best that has been demonstrated. 

As a system with mainly Bespoke Built devices, it makes it quite a difficult to system to explain where it qualities are in comparison to other set ups, it is better when the impression made on others are shared.

For myself, I know most there is a lot of what impresses, coming from using very adept, time served individuals, who are with skills developed in their specialist fields not usually encountered, it takes decent pair of Cajones to throw caution to the wind and commission a unconstrained design and build. 

I'll let the broader audience decide if the posts made by myself are off help or not.

The commonly encountered Dictatorship in this forums analog section, where a certain individual takes umbrage at most content offered, resulting in their spieling out their self obsessed opinions and unashamed use of insults is not very democratic.

It is certainly a display of a attitude that is Alienating and not going to be of any assistance to any thread participant or onlooker. It might just be degenerative and is without doubt discouraging to the growth of the analog section within this forum. Where is the value in that!!!   

As stated in the past, it is difficult to avoid a very clear to be seen indicator, that their are certain individuals working for the demise of the analog section within this forum.

As stated in the past, I have made it my business to steer clear of individuals who have developed a controlling obsession around this hobby, where there is a undeniable unsavoury character readily displayed, bolstered by the self revelation of the Insular and Skewed thoughts that are held.

In all forms of addiction the personality degenerates over time, where the individual is increasingly Disconnected, Compulsive and Unable to Self Regulate.

When crossing paths with an individual that is seemingly suffering from a severe case addiction and this type of metal health.

The best I can do when being inflicted by their condition, is forgive them and pray that they are able to find the help needed. That is the beat I can do from my end with my levels of Mental Health and Medical Knowledge.

There is encouragement today to inquire about ones mental health and discover if the individual one is concerned for is feeling Ok, and I am quite happy to be making this inquiry to a particular forum member.   

What I won't be doing, is to be accepting of this type of individuals judgement on anything I choose to share, all shared information is offered up, with the fundamental of being fair to all and constructive to the Subject under discussion. 

This is a attitude to encourage others to stay and participate and hopefully some more to join.