Never Owned a Tube Amp and Want Advice


Hi All, 

I have never owned a tube amplifier before and am planning to purchase one with a minimum of 50 watts per channel to mate with 8 ohm 88 dbl speakers.

My hope is experienced audiogoners will share their expertise regarding how to approach this. While I realize listening is the best way to learn about sound and compatibility; I want to learn a better understanding about brands with less maintenance and longer tube life, how to decide between mono or stereo,can a newbie play with bias or is auto biasing a better first choice, etc.

I would also appreciate what to look for in selecting a used tube amp to identify one that might be in need of repair. For example, with solid state depending on the brand, capacitor replacement can be more of a concern. Any advice on what to look out for or ask about with used tube amps would be appreciated.

A big question I have is how to understand the relationship between power tubes like E34's, 120.s, etc. and, I guess the driver? tubes like 12au7's and 12at7's. That  is to ask which is more critical to the overall sound of the amp? FWIW, I routinely tube roll with my preamps.  

I 've read through a number of threads but maybe someone can point me to good ones I may have missed. 

Thanks for listening,

Dsper
dsper

Showing 8 responses by larryi

As I've stated above, I am a fan of low-powered tube amps.  I own a pushpull 45 amp, a pushpull 349 amp and a parallel single-ended 2a3 amp.  I like the sound of all of them.  If forced to pick a favorite, it would be the pushpull 349 amp (5.5 watt), followed by the parallel single-ended 2a3 (6.5 watts).  The very best amps I've heard were both very exotic--one is a custom-made output transformerless amp and the other is a pushpull 252 amp (a tube similar to a 300b, but much rarer).  In other words, I would not say that any particular topology is superior to another--there are good examples of each tube amp type.
Most tube amps are "optimistically" rated.  That 60 watt tube amp might deliver that wattage at peak, but at 60 watts, it would be typically distorting quite a bit.  Tube amps simply do not do well in a numbers game.  

Because most tube amps are distorting quite a bit before reaching their "rated" output, a 60 watt amp should be considered more like a 30 watt amp.  But, even with your 88 db/w efficient speakers, you will mostly be operating below one watt of output anyway; only a few peaks might get close to 30 watts, and tube amps distort gracefully.

I think most people who are unfamiliar with tubes substantially overestimate how much power they will need.  Unless you have notoriously difficult to drive speakers, even modest tube amps can be made to work with your speakers.  If you have to keep the volume down a bit, that is just one of those compromises that one has to make with ANY piece of audio gear; none are perfect.

I suspect that the notion of "tube watts" being more powerful than solid state has to do with the subjective impression that good tube amps deliver--the sound is full, lively and engaging at substantially lower volume so one thinks the system is playing loud when it is not.
Even if you don't have the opportunity to audition a wide array of amplifiers in your home, you should at least make the effort to hear one or two with your speakers to get some idea of whether tubes are really for you.  I've heard Tylers (don't know the model) with some medium and lower powered tube amps, and I thought they played well together, but, that is by my standards, taste and listening practice (I don't listen at high volume levels). Only you can decide how loud the amps must play, how much bass and bass control you demand, how important is the ability to play softly and still sound reasonably balanced and exciting (tubes are generally good in that regard), and a host of other considerations.

For my particular taste, I am not a big fan of high-powered tube amps; if something requires more than 50 watts, I am inclined to look at solid state even though most solid state amps sound slightly lifeless to me, particularly at lower volume levels.  I generally find higher powered tube amps to sound brittle and a little bit harsh.

If you don't demand ultra deep and punchy bass and rock concert volume levels, I think you could find a tube amp that would make you happy, assuming, that is, that the Tyler speakers are a reasonably easy load to drive.  I've heard many speakers with a lower efficiency rating than 88 db/w that worked well with 50 watts or less.

I should have mentioned that you should also look at output transformerless (OTL) amps.  Atmasphere mentioned, above, the the Tylers are an easy, flat load.  That makes them a good candidate for an OTL amp.  Atmasphere, following forum rules, did not mention his own brand of OTL amps, so I will mention them as good candidates.  These amps sound very clear, immediate, lively and engaging.  For my taste, they are a touch lean (midrange on up being a bit more prominent than upper bass), but that is a matter of taste, and the good attributes of Atmasphere amps can be quite compelling.

For not crazy expensive amps, I like the Italian brand Synthesis, particularly the A40 and A100 models (the bigger chassis models of this brand are more reliable because they have less tendency to overheat).  Tonally, this brand leans toward the warmish side.  The same is true of Audio Note, another brand I like, but, most of their stuff is quite pricey.
There are trade-offs, aside from cost, with going for more power.  With some brands of amps, the cheaper, lower-powered version sounds better when playing at modest volume level than the higher cost, higher priced brethren.  This can be the case with solid state too.  I tend to find higher powered tube amps to sound a little bit brittle and hard (harsh?) sounding.  But, it is still far better to get an amp compatible with your power requirements and accept the less significant trade-offs.

You need to hear these things for yourself.  It is hard to say what you will like and dislike and how you would value the particular attributes of any given amp type, never mind particular model.  If you can, listen to a modestly powered EL34 or EL84 amp (a popular tube in lower cost amps that sounds very good), a higher powered amp using KT 88 or KT120 or KT150 tubes, and an output transformerless amp, like the Atmasphere S-30 or M 60 amps.  Of the more common tube types, I am a big fan of the 6L6 tube, but, those put out less power than the other tube types I've mentioned.
Yes, tube amps are sort of the opposite of solid state when it comes to running with no load or accidentally shorting the speaker leads (big problem for solid state, no big deal with tube gear).  

Another helpful hint for someone auditioning with tubes for the first time:  If you turn off the tube amp to switch things up, wait a few minutes before turning it back on.  Quickly cycling from on to off to on again can cause some tube amps to misbehave.  I've heard some loud crackling and I have seen rectifiers put on a light show when that is done.

High cost as used is actually a good sign--the market demand suggests that it well liked.

I have a local dealer that carries CJ equipment.  It sounds good to me.  That dealer also carries the Italian Synthesis brand and that brand is quite impressive for the money.  They build two integrated amps that I particularly like, the A40 and A100.  These come with a very good built-in DAC and utilize KT 66 tubes.  This is not that easy a brand to find, but, it is worth hunting down.
Keep in mind that sibilance is in a lot of vocal recordings; if you try to kill it by rolling off the tweeter (the resistors you mention), something else might be lost.  The most annoying vocal sibilance I hear tends to be in classical choral recordings, but then again, sibilance is pretty prominent in live choral performances as well.  

Have you tried experimenting with speaker placement, toe-in and rake angle?  In particular, toe-in and rake angle can change the sound quite a bit in the range where sibilance occurs.