Neutral electronics are a farce...

Ivan,

switching out between single-ended and balanced has no longer made an audible difference, under my roof

This is an interesting observation which can mean one of two things.
1. You have very good gear with not too much of a problem with external interference.

2. You have arrived at a combination of gear that has masked the benefits or the "sounds" of either configuration.  

I believe you can have both a neutral system and a natural system. After all - if your understanding of "neutral" means no top end or bottom end exaggerations or no coloration's etc., wouldn't the default term be "natural" as well - meaning that a system that can deliver a flawless performance in your listening room would have to be considered natural?

If two audiophiles went to a live concert - how would they describe the performance to each other? Would they use terms like "sweet top end" or "detailed mids" or "smooth" or "rich"?

No. They would say what non-audiophiles in the audience would say..
"It was awesome"
"It was overwhelming"
"It was thoroughly enjoyable music"

This is how audiophiles want their home systems to sound.
Unfortunately they have to go through months and years of swapping this for that until they "bump into" the best compromise. Except now it is worse because if they upgrade one component that gives them truly better detail, it further exposes a harshness in some component up stream and they either have to get another replacement for it or put the first one back in so it is tolerable.

On most of these threads you see a pattern of some wisdom. When someone gets the bug be can't afford much, the old guys tell the newbees how to get the best sound for the buck. You simply get a "bright" sounding preamp to drive a "good" power amp with poor top end that emphasizes the mids and bottom end. This uses one component as pre-emphasis and a second for de-emphasis. You end up with the perfect mix of zig and zag and you save a lot of money. Yes?
Well, it might be a good place to start but it will be quickly disappointing.
It is hard to fool your ears with anything that contains distortion - even if it is the "good" kind.

Roger

roguemodel – your statement cannot be more accurate or appropriate…including your deduction.

Atmasphere...I thought audio waves moved at the speed of sound, and light waves moved at the speed of light? This is the kind of crap I'm talking about. Just listen to the music, if it moves you, you have a great system.

 

If you will allow me to shed some light on this topic. As it turns out I have probably more research into this very topic than anyone. I can only say this because I have hard evidence that the way sound reproduction systems operate is no longer a mystery but rather bound by physical laws that are predictable. To correctly understand it is to be aware of the basic requirements needed to achieve sound reproduction that is (not realistic) but in fact, real.

Regarding the speed of an audio signal through the electrical medium.

Atmosphere mentioned the example of the marble filled hose. By adding one marble to the input side (A) – one marble exits on the output side (B). The observed speed it took for the “energy” to travel from point A to point B is virtually simultaneous. That speed is both very fast and more importantly it is a fixed speed.

However -

The other speed to observe is the speed (rate) that the marbles are loaded into (a).

At the other end (B) they will be exiting at the same speed.

That speed can vary. (One marble per minute or one marble per second) Whatever the rate is – it will be the same at both ends. The understanding is that we can reference 2 separate speeds happening at the same time depending on where and how you observe it.

Electricity travels at the (roughly) the speed of light (no need to bicker over the exact number)

Sound waves travel a Mach One (approx. 750 mph depending on environmental conditions).

It is important to realize that these are “observed” or “apparent” speeds.

IOW you are not monitoring a single electron entering a wire and making its way to the other end at the speed of light. Instead it is the response time of the medium – in this case the wire quickly drops off an electron (not the same one added) at the output end.

Here is the difference. (In an excerpt from the white paper on distortion.)

Observing the sonic event from the beginning…

I will use a live orchestra performance as an example here because it is rich with many instruments and is among the most difficult sound events to reproduce properly. We see the live performance as a sound event in which there are natural “sound waves” traveling away from the stage. These waves flow freely because they are traveling in medium of air. The music enjoyed by a live audience member seated in the 10th row center comes to him or her by a delivery system which includes the air present in the auditorium. The air serves as the perfect medium allowing the sound vibrations generated by the various instruments on the stage to “travel” as waves uninterrupted. The speed at which it flows is known as Mach One. These waves ultimately arrive and enter the listener’s ear canals (still at Mach One). What really happened just then? Everything that was vibrating on the stage simply increased or decreased the instantaneous air pressure as a result of squeezing (compression) or stretching (rarefaction) the local air pressure surrounding the instruments. This is nothing new. However, what was propelled toward the listener was only the result or influence impressed upon, and carried by the medium (a wave of sound). When we say the “sound” has arrived we are really verifying that the result or influence has arrived. We call it a “sound wave” because it is in a medium that allows sound waves to exist and flow freely. For the local listener in the audience, it is “mission accomplished”. Music from the stage was delivered or “streamed” directly to the listener’s ear canals using sound waves to communicate the event through the medium of air. The local air molecules surrounding the (violin string) are still there. They never left the stage. Only the exact disturbances in pressure have arrived, to be decoded by the ear-brain system and recognized as a real live event.

So the only thing that “traveled” was the WAVE – not the original air molecules pushed away from the violin string.

Sticking with the actual attendance of a live concert – audience members sitting many rows back from the stage will hear the same music that the people  in the first row hear. (allowing for delay and distance cues such as the slight roll off of highs due to the drop in energy level. The SPL will be weaker but not slowed down.

Can the person in the first row claim that what they are hearing is more live than the person many rows back because it gets to them first?. Of course not. The same way that the person in the back is hearing more of a slice of “history” due to the offset (travel) it time. To them it is just as live.

The only way to destroy the “live” nature of the music is to tamper with one of the properties associated with sound.

Sound has two properties:

1)   Pressure

2)   Time.

That’s it. If you maintain both those properties – they will equal live.

If you look on an oscilloscope at a musical signal and you see the jagged lines (vertically) that represent a violin or percussion instrument – this is the instantaneous “pressure” measurement.

If you look at the horizontal reference line most of you know that this represents time. A soon as one of those two properties is altered it is no longer perceived as live. The medium of air is constant and will not alter either one. The ear-brain system is intimately familiar with the properties of air. It is how sounds are “fed” to us.

An electrical medium that is not constant will never transfer the true “feeling” of live.

The emphasis in the amplifier business has been all about the vertical axis “pressure” with not enough attention paid to what it takes to nail down the timing issues. This is where my research has taken me. The constant speed or velocity of a sound wave has to be included in the amplifying process.

Just listen to the music, if it moves you, you have a great system.

roguemodel - you are right. If it moves you (like a feeling of live) then you do have a more accurate system.

If you can deliver accurate pressure and timing of sound waves, what you get back is 100% live.

It is possible and it does work.

Roger

geoffkait,

With all due respect...

I don't need to crack the text books to know that if I push a cup off a table that the next thing it will do is hit the floor.  

 This reminds me of Thomas Edison's Light Bulb Test

Thomas Edison, the inventor of the incandescent bulb, was an incessant inventor.   When he needed to expand his staff, he employed an unusual technique for interviewing the engineers for positions on his staff.  Every prospective applicant who came in for an interview was handed a light bulb.  Edison then asked the engineer to determine the exact amount of water the bulb could hold.

Edison knew very well that there were two basic ways an applicant could determine the correct answer to his question.

The first, was to apply several engineering gauges and mathematical protractors to each of the complex angles of the glass bulb. Then, using a slide ruler and applying basic logarithmic formulas, the applicant could calculate the inside surface area of the light bulb which would allow him to determine the total volume of the glass bulb. This approach would take an experienced engineering applicant approximately twenty minutes to solve the answer.
The second method an applicant could use to find the answer was to remove the brass base from the bulb and then fill the bulb with water.   Once the bulb was filled with water, its contents could easily be poured into a measuring cup or laboratory beaker mug to determine the exact amount of water it could hold.   This method generally took less than two minutes.
Nearly all the engineers who used the first method to calculate the volume of water a light bulb could hold were politely thanked for their time and sent on their way. However, the applicants who used the second method were greeted warmly by Mr. Edison who asked, "When can you start?"

Based on your very impressive technical knowledge, can you tell me what happens if the velocity of an audio signal entering an amplifier leaves at a different velocity?

Better yet - Is it possible to exit at a different velocity?

Roger

Mapman,

Absolutely - the method I use is quite radical and unconventional. This is one of the reasons that people who hear this technique for the first time are shocked at how well it replicates the live event. It is capable of  unraveling the layout of the venue and placing sound objects back into space. Essentially a reverse of the recording capture.

The key to doing this is have a stable playback speed.
Conventional amplifiers don't have circuitry that can detect or control this property.

I know you remember me from the early postings on the other threads.
I have had my share of critics and audiophiles who just enjoyed making fun of my work. Well I never gave up and here we are in 2016 with an actual way to hear perfect flawless, distortion-less music.

I must thank God for what has happened as a result.of all that work.
There was no way to measure what I only suspected was going on.
It functions so well - it is a miracle.

Already I have been talking with 4 of the top 3D movie makers about implementing Live analog amplifiers in the movie soundtracks and driving the local speakers in the theaters with metered Mach One sound.
Besides the audio market, it is made for all types of entertainment.

I watched to the halftime show during the Superbowl on H-CAT and experience an absolute attendance.

Even with cancer, I could not be happier.

Roger

Mapman

If you step back and try to see the overall process, it becomes simpler.
The electronics is the only part of the signal path that differs as a medium from the air in the hall at the venue and air in your living room

The live performance literally gets lost in the "electronic" translation.
If you have a circuit stage with a gain of 10  Measuring the "exactness" of the 10.000 v rms out for 1.000 v rms in focuses your attention on the vertical axis. The real crime is how much energy from the 1 khz sine wave has been compromised by the amplifying method. IOW if we look at the horizontal time domain we see more valuable information about the constant nature of the delivery speed. Turntables have wow and flutter references, digital devices have jitter well analog amplifiers also have dynamic timing issues.

To answer your question about how significant is the variation -
It turns out it is almost everything. Here is a statement sure to get people upset but its true.

Ninety percent of the problems with systems that don't sound right can be blamed on the electronics. This is because they are responsible for the destruction of vital cues about where things are located in a performance.

I know the argument about how much distortion speakers have will do more damage and not allow you to even hear a lower amounts of distortion elsewhere in the system. That simply is not true. Here is why:

Take phase errors and crossovers etc. Whatever they do to the signal - it is stable. It is not dynamic. If you had an rc circuit to roll off the highs at 10khz of course it would sound like there are no highs but whatever image you manage to get from it would be stable because it is static IOW the diffusion remains the same. Your soundstage may not fully appear correctly but there would be no dynamic "modulation" of location information to scatter the vectors of sound objects.

Analog amps modulate the velocity of the passing signal enough to cause confusion in the mind of the listener. The amount of modulation needed to diffuse an image is in the parts per billion.

Roger

geoffkait,

Ok so we all knew the cup would fall. Moving on...

Can you tell me what happens if the velocity of an audio signal entering an amplifier leaves at a different velocity?

And if that can be plugged into your formulas, why wasn't this fixed a long time ago?

Why did it take decades for someone to notice the real problems? I'll tell you one of the reasons.

Because it is not in your text books. I thank God every day for keeping me out of college. I would be just as confused as you guys. Don't get me wrong - If you have seen my white paper you can see that I have done all my homework. It just looks different from your homework.

You can't argue with success.

Roger

dracule1 wrote...

 I doubt anyone can claim their stuff is neutral. 

This has been the case for many years. What happens when something comes along that actually can perform as totally neutral?

Can you predict the year in the future when all of these problems are behind us? That fateful day when problems with sound reproduction have been cured? The day when you feel like you are on the holodeck of the enterprise?

That year is 2016

Roger

infection,

jmcgrogan2 said...

I think that "neutral" is one of the most miss-understood and misused words in the audio hobby.

My impression of neutral is a sonic signature which does not emphasize the low or the high frequencies.

What happens if there is no sonic signature?

Roger

geoffkait

Would you settle for whatever distortion you get in the concert hall during a live performance?

Its nothing but air which is a linear transfer medium.

If it did exactly the same thing in your home would you say "this is just like being there"? If not then some kind of distortion is happening at home and the alternative medium [electrical] transfer of sound waves does not match the purity of air.

It is a simple concept. Make the electronics act like air.
It requires that you match the velocity of air which is zero with no wind.
The sound waves velocity riding on top of a zero velocity (air)  results in a single un-modulated constant speed of Mach One (about 750 mph)
When that happens you will not be able to tell them apart.

If music is traveling toward you in the hall at 750 mph why would you not want it to hit you in your living room at 750 mph? That is your proof that it is live.

If it deviates even a little (747 mph - 753 mph)  it becomes a red flag to your brain and tells you it is not live.

This is no longer a theory.

Roger

atmosphere

^^ of course, there is the issue of what is meant by 'zero distortion'.

I think it narrows down to obviously having ultra low or no harmonic distortion but more importantly it has to have the absence of dynamic phase errors that fall far below harmonic distortion measurements.

Take for example ground loops and grounding in general.
If you cue up your cartridge with the volume up and listen for noise (hum buzz etc.) it it is dead quite, it does not mean that you do not have a problem with ground loops. The problem caused by some ground loops show up when the music is playing. This is where electromagnetic broadcasts such as current running through your speaker cables can be picked up by a low Z loop that includes your IC's.

The other problem is extremely low level hum (not audible) that is contaminating the phase angles of bass info between 60 to 120 hz.
It dynamically modulates the presented image like a shake table. As a result, the velocity of the sound waves is modulated and the total presentation is perceived as a smear or out of focus.

Amplifier errors in the area of phase distortion must be removed first..
Harmonic distortion only happens when the phase distortion is unchecked.
If you kill the phase errors you kill harmonic distortion.

That's zero distortion.

Roger

jmcgrogan2

I did not say there was no sonic signature Roger. I said the neutral means to me that neither the high nor low frequencies are emphasized. There is a difference.

Yes I know you did not say there was no sonic signature. My point was what happens when there is no sonic signature? IOW most audiophiles can sit down in a blind test and listen to a "system" and say this sounds like a tube system or SS system (in some cases where there is both it might be tricky).

Obviously everything presents a sonic signature, unless it presents no sound at all.

It is possible to have no sonic signature and still have sound. The sonic signature represents a trace or finger print that is imposed on the music signal by the amplifying process. If you speak through a cardboard tube like you find in the center of a paper towels, it becomes obvious that the hollow modified sound of your voice was caused by the cardboard tube. That is its sonic signature and your ear-brain recognizes immediately what it is.

Tube and transistor circuitry has come a long way but it still has audible traces of the process. It is due to low level distortion which are different for both circuit types. (that's why you can tell which is which).

When there is no distortion (zero) there is no sonic signature and cannot be recognized as tubes or transistors.

I don't know if you call that neutral or natural but I know it is desirable because it sounds "live". Any sonic signature gives your brain a clue that it is a reproduction. The only sonic signature at the concert hall is the sound of concert hall.

Roger 

The difference is one is static phase error and one is dynamic phase error.
I am referring to dynamic phase error caused by the amplifying process.

If you have a dynamic speaker with tweeter, mid and bass drivers and they are time aligned (distance from you ear and delivering a coherent sound)  and you add a shim under the back of the speaker stands so they are now tilted down slightly - you would still be able to hear the music but the coherency will be off by the same amount all the time. this is due to the physical maneuvering of the cabinets (mis-aligned). The tweeter is now somewhat closer to you and so the highs will now arrive too soon.
This is an example of a static phase error. if you had someone take your speakers and rocked them back and forth while you were listening - that would be dynamic phase errors. It is a process of modulation not tilt.

A tilted speaker still gives you a view of the soundstage (but from slightly different view)

A modulated speaker cabinet will cause the sounstage to blurr like a shake table. Under those conditions it is difficult to nail down where everything is.

Bottom line - even with perfect bolted down loudspeakers with good coherency they cannot project a stable image due to the dynamic modulation of the velocity fed to the speakers by an unstable amplifier.

90% of all system problems are from the electronic amplifiers.
10% is all the cables, power cords and magic pebbles.

Phase modulation is gross amounts of distortion since your entire perception of a live soundstage depends on objects not shifting around during the playback process. (like someone shaking you speakers)

It is literally the same thing as a photograph taken out of focus.

Remove the shaky nature of the display and everything is stable and in focus.

That can only happen inside the amplifier circuitry.

Roger

I've yet to hear a functioning amplifier than can't project a stable image.

I think it is a matter of how stable and how focused compared to live.

It takes a tremendous amount of discipline and control during the amplifying process to not tamper with the delicate location information streamed to you via the sound waves.

Most high end systems do get it right except it does not approach what you need to have your brain latch onto what appears to be an actual live event.

You may be able to hear what seems like a clear image of someone playing a violin and perhaps where he is standing but it does not compare to being able to hear and perceive gestures like those caused by the actual playing and bowing movements. That kind of detail was normally available only if you attended the performance. Once you hear the difference between high end systems and actual "live" sound reproduction it becomes obvious that it is not even close. Its a whole different experience.

After listening for some time under those conditions - the typical high end system sounds distorted for the first time.

Because of some legal things that are happening I cannot tell you what I have done to make this happen but I do have auto-focus circuitry that totally stabilizes the venue.

It is similar to the "Steadi-cam" system used in motion pictures to remove vibration from the optical image. It is impossible to obtain massive resolution and focus without the stabilization technique in place.

I had to understand the effects of the burn-in process because it did contaminate the auto-focus circuitry. The good news is that when it is burned-in the contamination goes away.

It is the non-symmetrical charge/discharge rate of a component that still has forming current in the equation. This causes the component to have 2 separate impedance values depending on charge or discharge. The forming current is typically added to the charge direction but not always.
Moving equipment between power sources triggers some additional break-in.  If you take your gear to someone else's house and set it up with a slightly lower power line voltage than your house - the main filter caps will attempt to re-form in the downward direction. If the power line is slightly higher it will require more forming current until it finishes. Focus can only be achieved in the absence of break-in.

Roger

mapman,

It sounds like it is well broken in and probably tubes - yes?
Finding a way to match the good attributes of tubes is difficult in SS but not impossible. Most SS gear cannot do it. Class A does not guarantee perfection.

Roger

Actually that is a good combo.

geoffkait

It is a logical fallacy that one can automatically achieve audio nirvana using an ideal amplifier, assuming for a moment that is what yours is. Things are just not that simple

Your right things are not that simple. This is why it took 25 years of intense research targeting one problem - distortion in AUDIO amplifiers.

No one else has come close to a full understanding of the amplifying process used specifically for signals in the audio spectrum. Amplifiers used for radio, video, uhf, microwave etc. do not have to deal with delivering analog data from a different medium. Audio amplifiers require the total package that must include velocity. The signal has to return back to sound waves in your home. It cannot be done in an environment where the velocity is unchecked.

Try to remember back in the day when you may have went from a mid-fi Kenwood or Sansui receiver to your first real audiophile gear (most likely tubes) and what a stark day and night difference it made.  For you It was a whole new world of audio. Finally it sounded like real music.

Then there was the horror of new digital (CD’s) on the scene and all it did was give you stress and was not anything like a good analog front end.

(I'm sure most of you will say it is still the case)

Look at how difficult it was for me to explain the [fact] that there are 2 separate distinct speeds happening in the amplifier.

1)     Electricity traveling at (speed of light)

2)     Electrical signals representing sound waves traveling at (750 mph)

This is nothing new – if the wave phenomenon could not “flow” through the hardware at this speed you would not be able to use it for audio.

What I have done is to guarantee the flow will be at exactly one constant speed or velocity.

That was no simple - It takes control at quantum levels to achieve this function.

If the velocity is perfectly nailed down – you have emulated the properties of air.

It has never been done before. That’s why it is a breakthrough. That’s why when you hear it in operation it is not recognizable as electrically delivered sound.

All it takes is for people to be open minded enough to learn something new that directly impacts the world of entertainment.

Judge for yourself [after] you hear what it does

The worst skeptic is converted within seconds of exposure to this process.

They may have no idea how it was done - but now know it obviously works.

Roger

I have moved the above comment over to "Has anyone heard..." thread.

Mapman
If you dont mind my asking who makes the class D amp?

Roger

I guess you can compare the difference between a photo taken with a 3 MP camera, a 5 MP camera etc.

What if you take a picture now with a 100 mega pixel camera?
They are all stable and focused but now you can see detail that only could have be seen in person.

My auto-focus uses quantum physics and is accurate to parts per trillion.
Semiconductor manufacturers do not make a device that can do this.
That's why I had to make my own devices.

Roger

geoffkait,

Things are just not that simple. There are distortions associated with speakers, with room acoustics anomalies such as slap echo, standing waves, reflected waves, with the effects of seismic vibration, the effects of mechanical vibration of motors, transforrmers, etc., the effects of static electric fields on the CD or LP and cables, the effects of induced magnetic fields in the wires and cables, the very large induced magnetic fields in large honking transformers, distortions resulting from wire and cable and fuses being installed in the wrong direction, distortions due to local environmental influences (Morphic fields), improper speaker set up, not to mention weather effects, sun spots effects, time of day effects. In other words in order to achieve "live" the audiophile who is attempting to get into audio nirvana must pay attention to everything, not just the speed of acoustic waves in air. 

All of this is true except if the last reference - "not just the speed of waves in air" is not dealt with your system will never produce live no matter how much control you have over the vibrations. The velocity has to be right or you are wasting your time.

atmasphere

What velocity?

The speed of acoustic waves in air is the most important aspect of sound reproduction to get right. It alone is responsible for the most destructive damage done to sound reproduction. There is no alternative way to create the illusion of live.

Assuming you have almost everything to do with vibrations under control - what is left represents at least 70% of your systems remaining distortion.

Knowing where to look is half the battle. You can talk about amplifiers all day long but if you expect to use it for audio you must address the delivery speed otherwise it falls short every time.

wolf_garcia

To get anything like the live mojo out of yer tweets and woofs is doable, but still…it's nothing like live..

.Why is that?

geoffkait,
 

The connection of course is that Roger claims that the speed of sound in air should be preserved by the amplifier. With inverted polarity, with the trumpet being sucked instead of blown it’s almost like the Acoustic Waves of the musician’s breath and coming from the trumpet are traveling backwards. So forget about keeping the velocity of sound in air consistent (Roger’s term is Mach 1) between the recording venue and the listening room. Obviously there are other potential issues but if 80 or 90 percent of audiophile type recordings are in fact R then that would be big news. And bad news for Rogers claim that his amp, the way it preserves the speed of sound, is the key to getting "live" sound, since statistically on 20% or so of recordings are in correct polarity.

How does the inverted polarity dismiss my claim about a stable velocity?
I know this is a hard concept because it is giving most audiophiles a tough time wrapping their heads around it.

I can assure you that even if you play the "venue" in the reverse absolute phase - you can still tell that the location of objects is secure. Obviously switching to the [plus] phase will make it sound much better as it could be perceived as live. As far as the sucking of air [into] the sax, at least with a stable velocity its "sucking point" in space would remain still. Not the case when velocity is left unchecked. In fact you will have a much harder time telling the correct phase with a system that allows velocity deviation.

There is no bad news here - just a bad understanding.

Roger

geoffkait,

And bad news for Rogers claim that his amp, the way it preserves the speed of sound, is the key to getting "live" sound, since statistically on 20% or so of recordings are in correct polarity.

Are you saying that your own system is not right 80% of the time but you still enjoy it - yes?

Food for thought...
If you can't tell the difference when you switch the phase then it [the system] is not clean enough to expose it.

almarg,

I agree with Ralph’s comments in that thread to the effect that the claim of "velocity countermeasures" ("countermeasures" meaning "corrections," as I understand it) in the area of 700 or 800 db seems nonsensical.

What do you suppose is the percentage of errors in an actual living ear-brain connection? Parts per million, billion, trillion?

Every single time I added another 100 db to the velocity detectors what do you think happened?

A) didn’t notice any difference.
B) far superior projection.

Most designers can’t even contain that much raw gain in one place without it going up in smoke.

It is used exclusively for the detection and preservation of velocity.

I use custom devices (built at my factory) that you won’t find on the shelves at Digi-key or Mouser because nobody makes them. I had to design a special circuit board to handle the auto-focus system housed in a Faraday cage and buried in pure copper.

You are welcome to your own opinions but don’t tell me it can’t be done.
Its already been done.
The results are self evident.

The answer is B.

Roger

mapman

You'd think such a high precision device like that if truly possible  that would cost more than a few grand. 

Because of the "basic" look of H-CAT (chassis, etc.) it might not win any beauty contests but you quickly realize that most of my resources were put into the circuitry and function. 

Roger

almarg,

Roger, I of course don’t question the innovative nature of your design, or the quality of the results. But to provide some perspective on the numbers that have been cited:

A million is of course a 1 followed by 6 zeros.
A billion is a 1 followed by 9 zeros.
A trillion is a 1 followed by 12 zeros.

The human brain contains approximately 100 billion cells (a 1 followed by 11 zeros), according to various references on the web.

800 db, as used to represent the ratio between two quantities of voltage or current or sound pressure level or various other variables, corresponds to 1 part in (1 followed by 40 zeros)

Yes I know if you do the math - that's what I have too.
Its a very large number. (very high voltage gain)
This is why I had to resort to quantum physics.
You cannot use standard components.
It might seen like overkill to some but quite necessary and obvious when applied.

BTW 100 billion cells in the brain relates to brain mass as does not translate into thought capacity or discernment. The ear-brain system does real time "calculations" to recreate an image in the "mind" (which has no mass).

Roger

I think the age old saying that "you can't argue with success" rings true.

I will be the first to admit that you guys are way over my head.
You guys have more degrees than a thermometer.
You would think with the vast amount of collective knowledge just in this forum that somebody could figure out some of the hard problems.
Gosh - you even know how many atoms there are in the world !
Wow. What did that get you? Well lets see - you could score big time at trivial pursuit. Unfortunately it can't be applied practically to solve real world problems. At least in audio.

You don't know my background. I was a consultant to the DEA, the FBI and wrote code for the DOD to facilitate the deployment of the top weapons systems around the world. They use to have armed guards outside my office.

But wait - how could I do this without a degree?
The government came to me based on my reputation and "waived" the legal requirement that you must have a degree for that position. They did not care - they knew I was capable of fixing problems that the "college boys" couldn't figure out.

Gee sound familiar?

I have tried to be polite and share something remarkable with you.
I am no genius but there is one thing I'm sure of and that is analog amplification and distortion.

I own it.

Roger.

geoffkait,

With all due respect - I don't owe anyone an explanation for anything I do.
You can't get passed the basics of my concept of constant velocity amplification even after trying 6 different ways to explain it. It obviously will never compute. 700 db doesn't have to be scary.

Here is another fact - you can't win this argument.

You have a very rigid mindset.
Maybe the tin foil hat is blocking it.

I sincerely wish you luck.

Roger

geoffkait,

You are really an ok guy and I would love to tell you what i'm doing that involves (you know what) but nah....

If I did tell you - you would actually agree with me and we would be on the same page.

I think I have said too much already.
I have too much legal stuff going on right now.
I hope you understand.


Roger

geoffkait,

..although to be fair it appears you worked on logistics (deployment) or some such thing. You were a scheduler, I take it.

Is that your final guess?

More to the topic - The FBI came to me, again based on my experience in the field of amplification, to develop a custom amplifier they could use to extract a very low level conversation recorded in an extremely loud night club environment. With all their resources, their lab gear could not dig out the conversation which was all but drowned out by the night club. My custom amp revealed someone hiring a "hit" man to take out a mob boss. I was able to provide them with clear evidence to allow the successful prosecution of the case.

You’re not the only one who ever worked in Government

I never applied for jobs at any of those agencies - The DEA, the FBI and the DOD all used "head hunters" to find me and asked for my help based in my spotless reputation for troubleshooting and finding answers where their own people failed.

Sound familiar? (again)

Everyone who knows me in the audio business knows I am a relentless troubleshooter - in this case I tackled sound reproduction and succeeded.

Now its your turn to have a nice day.

I’m done.

Roger

Wolf_garcia,

Secret pseudo science claims for items producing audio nirvana waste everybody's time…

I could not agree more.

There were a plethora of attempts by various designers (and big corporations) to generate “lifelike 3D sound”  from the Carver Sonic Hologram Generator to the “signal completion” gadget.

Here is an interest fact:

All of those efforts (100%) were/are basically “parlor tricks” aimed at making the listener think that somehow a sound [object] has magically appeared to render itself in your listening room and sometimes coming from a side wall or even behind you. Those can be lots of fun.

Here is another fact:

My work is the exact opposite. A total of (0%) manipulation takes place in the amplifying process. By default it produces sound [objects] that appear to be in mid-air and are located (placed) back into their relative locations using the embedded information captured in the original venue. It does this effortlessly and with massive precision and focus.

Roger

Everything is relative.

geoffkait

Maybe we need a new lexicon.

How about real or not real?
Believable or not believable?