I'd be looking at a Teres 265 or equivalent turntable with a Scroder II arm, a ZYX cartridge and a solid state phono stage. I'd guess somewhere in the $7-9K range. Doubtful you will easily pick up a used Teres. You have a very nice digital source that I respect a great deal but be warned. The above combination will dust it. Part of my recommendation is based on your existing equipment. I'm certain you like a black background so do yourself a favor, buy the ZYX and the Scroder even if you get a lesser table. |
Opalchip and Swampwalker have a point, up to a point. Most of the turntables that are of higher cost as well as higher cost cartridges drastically reduce low level noise versus the well respected Sota, Rega et. al., tables. The question becomes one of at what point do each of us (in our own minds) begin to see the point of dimenishing returns. That changes with time, exposure to better components and our personal incomes. My own table gets bashed a lot in these forums primarily by people that have no experinence with them. Since 1984 I've had no compelling reason to buy a different table and have spent money to upgrade it along the way. I really respect my LP12. The thing is I've been exposed to other tables and know in my heart that if I lost mine somehow I would buy another brand because of the very small benefits. I've evolved. We have a guy starting this thread that has one of the finest digital front ends on the planet. His other equipment is complimentary to his source. I know where you guys are coming from and agree with you but I really believe that a lesser table would only reside temporarily amongst the other great gear. It's cheaper to do it right once. My sense is that Springbok10 is a man of means and appreciates things of a higher caliber. I am in no way criticizing your opinions because it's correct for most of us. |
Springbok10,
All of my suggestions are based on personal experience. Regarding a ZYX, I have recently purchased a R100H Yatra MK II. It has most of the qualities of the more expensive versions. It is dead silent in the grooves at high volume. Amazing. The Fuji and Universe are better but not by much to my ears. I own an LP12 with an Ittok arm running into a Supratek Syrah. I'm sure this would float your boat inserted into your system. Still, if you have the change I stick by my suggestion of a Teres 265. Incredibly well built and not fussy to set up. Once set up they stay that way but do need a mass loaded stand. I'm intimately familiar with the Schroder II. You could hang a $10K cartrdige on it and it would do it justice. This arm is, IMO the best tonearm value in analog, bar none. I've heard it directly against the Scroder Reference, the latest Triplanar and the Graham 2.2. Of these four arms the Reference is incredible but the Triplanar and Schroder II are very close. There is just something about the ZYX line of cartridges that is very real. The designer has something like fifteen patents implemented in the lineup and most of them are for eliminating time smear. I'm not technically oriented but my ears tell me he has it right. I've never heard detail and smoothness blended together so well once broken in. Did I mention how spooky quiet they are? Also, there is no need to go out of country to buy one. Mehran is a class act. Truly one of the best vendors I've ever dealt with. The lineup is confusing unless you discuss the possibilities with Mehran of Sorasound. Getting one is like finding religion. |
Doug,
I don't disagree with you. If you read my post I said my cartridge enjoys "most" of the performance aspects of the better ZYX cartridges and I stand behind that opinion. I didn't say it equals them. Pick any two very highly regarded interconnects that work well with this system and there will be much more audible differences with them than within the ZYX cartridge line IMO. Also, let's note that you listen almost exclusively to orchestral music whereas I listen to all music genre's. You have been invited to drop by and listen for yourself to determine if my system is resolving enough. What I was trying to recommend are components that wouldn't be replaced because of disappointment but would endure through their useful life at a price point that didn't exceed the Meitner gear. |
You've got a great sense of humor Sprinbok10. Okay, having said what you said, forget the above advice from me. Also, forget all the criticisms leveled against Ivor and Co. regarding an LP12. Buy one just like mine. If you find it appeals to you, move it to your main system and weep as it shames the Meitner. I've a sense of humor too. He he. Anyway, I'm really anxious to read about what you do and where you end up. Fun thread. |
Patience you must have grasshopper. Worthwhile is never easy. |
$2800 - Teres 255, unfinished rosewood
$2150 - Schroder II, carbon fiber armwand
$1500 - ZYX cartridge
_____
$6450 Total turntable excluding shipping. Remaining funds hopefully will pay for the installation of your phono stage.
Okay, here's the beauty of this setup. You will be required to finish sand the plinth on the turntable/armboard and apply lacquer or polyurethane (whatever) for a lasting finish. Then you will need to assemble the bearing, mount the arm and cartridge. At this point you will be an expert on your table and fully understand its needs. There is an upgrade path which you can do in steps and if you wish to get a better Teres at a later date you place your order for the new one, and then sell the 255 for close to what you have paid for it.
I simply put in a figure where you can buy one of many ZYX cartridges depending upon how robust your phono stage will be. With the wait you will have to receive your Teres you can contact Mehran and discuss the phono section of the MP-1. A demo or very low mile nicer ZYX with warranty may become available to you. Make the wait work in your favor.
The remainder of the funds hopefully will cover the cost of installing the phono stage in your MP-1. This combination will far exceed the performance of your Meitner front end, DEPENDING ON THE SOFTWARE. I'd like to emphasize that with this combination of analog and digital you can now concentrate on buying the best software regardless of format. Again, I love the EMM Labs stuff.
This is essentially what I was trying to do for you in my first post. It makes little sense to buy less because of the quality components you have become acustomed to. This combination will enhance your already wonderful system and you will have no compelling reason to upgrade, except for perhaps a battery power supply. |
Nsgarch brings up a topic I've wondered about. Certainly with true balanced operation a phono stage would enjoy a lower noise floor; at least theoretically. In practice, and only because I've been lucky enough to listen locally to a variety of great phono stages in a world class system, I doubt that the benefits will matter. Of course, I've been wrong before. It's just that having listened as extensively as I have it's getting difficult to believe things will get significantly better. Silent is silent and that's what I'm hearing from almost every great phono stage I've heard. It's like asking how black can black get. Thanks for bringing this up Nsgarch as it's interesting. |
Nsgarch,
The extent of what you say has not been lost on me. And, I do find this to be very interesting. I am not questioning that things can get better because repeatedly through my life in this hobby the performance bar has been raised in regard to state of the art. What really amazes me about this is the amount of information held within the grooves of old recordings. I can only afford to be a "trailing edge" kind of audiophile, buying gear later than the "cutting edge" audiophiles. With each improvement in my own gear I rediscover Louis, Ella, Duke and The Count. Just as I've experienced the positive effect of using a supertweeter (which makes little sense to me since I cannot actually hear what it's doing) and accept it in spite of my minds reluctance to do so, similar benefits of which you write are the only area I can imagine progress being made. I cannot hear any hum or noise in the single ended designs being used in SOTA analog today. Like I said "how black can black get?" My sense, based on high frequencies beyond what we can hear increasing the presentation in the supertweeter example, is similar gains may be had by employing true balanced design as you've described. I find it very interesting and hope that someday I'll be able to experience it. Good point, indeed. |
I have experience with both the Illustrious and the 901 on another table. The 901 is sensitive to temperatures. I think you'll find that it requires more VTF in the winter than in the summer. If the table rotates correctly and is quiet at the bearing then you will have something to challenge the Meitner front end right out of the box. One of the most knowledgable members here regarding the 901 is Doug Deacon. Don't hesitate to contact him for his thoughts on the 901. I'm not anal enough to bother with VTA differences between records but I can tell you that correct VTA will reap huge rewards with the 901. You'll know it when it's right. |
Neil certainly covered a lot of the positive aspects of owning vinyl plus there are others. It is a lot of fun discovering older recordings which, in my opinion, are some of the best sonically and many of them are great performances by artists who have withstood the test of time. At least you can read the liner notes on an album where reading a CD requires me to nearly get a magnifying glass.
Playing vinyl is ritualistic but not necessarily anal. Set up surely is and cleaning LP's is mandatory. But playing them is another story. One gets very good at handling them and a quick wipe with a carbon fiber brush is all you need once they are placed on the table. Sure, you can make it much more than this but that's all it really takes. Developing good habits comes easily enough too. Don't forget a good light source.
Let us all know your first impressions and keep us advised of the upgrades that will surely happen. Most of all have fun. |
Not amazing at all. Just been there and done that. Amazing is putting people in a suspended, near death state for surgery and bringing them back alive. |
Denis,
This seems like a perfect opportunity to jump inside your table and do the repair yourself. Even though I have no experience with a SOTA I would venture a guess that the pulley and motor are an integral combination and that proper alignment is done by a simple adjustment to tilt the motor, thereby aligning the pulley. Certainly any number of us could walk you through cartridge installation by phone and I'd venture a guess that aligning the motor/pulley is a no-brainer in comparison. This would not only allow you to gain experience and get it up and running sooner, but also eliminate the risk of other damage through shipping. |
Denis,
I'm so thrilled. Keep in mind that everything will just get better as the bits and pieces break in. During this period you will grow accustomed to whatever cleaning and handling procedures you settle on and they will become second nature. Yeah, you have to get up and flip the darn things every 15 to 20 minutes but you won't mind. The greatest gift of all is that you now can concentrate on the best recordings of whatever fomat it is found on. The best of both worlds, indeed. Again, I'm very happy for you. Just watch out for the upgrade path. He he. |
