Need suggestions on preamp

@jkf011 - I ended up getting an original Classic 1. The manual recommends inverting the phase so I swapped negative and positive on my speakers. This results in a more detailed sound. Did you have to do that with yours at all? Very happy with the results so far. 

Has anyone heard any of the Audio Research stuff? I think I need something with a really nice black background that will let the little micro details shine through. Looking into the Van Alstine stuff currently. Looks nice, simple, and clean! Right up my alley.

Everyone makes good points here. Perhaps comparing headphone resolution to speaker resolution for the same amount of input cost is silly. I had some custom designed Single Driver speakers based on Lii Audio paper cone drivers. They were almost just as picky but I could get the detail I wanted out of them for around the same price ($1000 tube amp and $1500 for the speakers). I should probably just accept what the Maggie’s are good at and that’s midrange and get something like a Conrad Johnson or something. 

@sameyers1 - what speakers and amp are you running with that preamp? Ayre stuffs looks to be a good value and fast, resolving, and clean which is what I would thought I’d be getting even with the entry level Maggie’s. 

@soix - yes people who have heard the Hifiman headphones (really any variant) Arya, Susvara, SE or HE1000 will know what I’m talking about. Wide soundstage with lots of resolving micro detail. Monitor Audio is supposed to be brighter so would make sense that they would resolve better. I probably got the wrong speakers so have to decide if I just want these for their great midrange. I love the LS3/A variants like the Graham Chartwells as well as Falcon Gold Badges, Harbeths, etc. so maybe that’s where I’ll settle and realize the limitations (or looked at different the strengths) of my current setup. 

@classicrockfan - I don’t know if spending my money on trying to get these speakers to resolve with a more expensive preamp is going to fix the issue. It sounds like to me like I should have gotten brighter gear. My single driver Lii Audio Silver 6 speaker with custom enclosure was bright at times and temperamental but gave me good detail. I think I might need to settle with these speakers and find matching gear to play to their strengths or just end up going with something else all together.

@ghdprentice - what do you recommend for my budget? Are their SS offering pretty good compared to tubes? I’m leaning towards a LS9 or LS3.

@sameyers1 - that's my fear but ATC stuff (which I really like) is around the $2-$3k and I just sold my Wharfdale Linton stands. What I really like about the Maggies is their soundstage and the ability for attributes like vocals to just bring you to another place. They definitely sound bigger than the speakers and these are the only speakers I've been able to really get me to understand soundstage. They might be the same tonality wise as Wharfdale as I believe their higher end offerings 10.2, Linton, etc. aren't particular detailed as well unless perhaps you're talking about the Evo 4.2s or something.

@g2the2nd - I plan on getting a Sublime 531. I plan on setting a -24db slope for 50hz. I want to pair it with dual Rel T Zeroes. I know also upgrading the crossover with better components should improve clarity.

@saboros - I’m kind of the same point. I think the Mark II has more power but the 545 was so good. Detailed and only when driven hard does it sound harsh and Maggie’s are meant to be driven hard. I guess stuff like Monitor Audio would have been more detailed but I would have had to spend 2 or 3x more to get the naturalness and soundstage these guys have.

@skiznfliz - I’ve heard Martin Logan Tweeters and those are exceptionally detailed but I find they get fatiguing after a while even with a McIntosh front end but maybe if I paired it with some like a Conrad Johnson it would be worth looking at again. I’ve heard the Philharmonics are a great value. What amp do you have paired with them? I feel like you need something more lush to counteract the tweeter. 

@lanx0003 - I don’t like NOS or R2R DACS or Preamps especially for detail. I’ve tried adjusting the filters on my DAC as well as I’ve had the Sonnet Morpheus DAC before and didn’t really care for it. You exchange all micro detail for tonality. When I switched from that DAC to a Schiit Yggdrasil I couldn’t believe how much detail I was leaving on the table. It really felt like a veil was over the music. I think at this point I have to accept the limitations of these speakers and go ahead with their strengths. I’m thinking of getting a Conrad Johnson preamp and calling it a day. At least that preamp should grow with me if I decide to go with some other posters suggestions of going with the brighter Monitor Audio. 

I did actually build my own risers out of Oak and had a guy weld me up my design out of 1/4” steel. I have noticed a bit of an improvement by putting in a new power cord for my amp (PS Audio AC-12). I plan on upgrading fuses next. The imaging has gotten a lot sharper. 

Stands

@skiznfliz - thanks for your honest impressions. Unfortunately if I went with speakers that catered to my favorite genre it would be some cheap Elacs or something because I like a lot of poorly recorded Rap haha. I have a lot of musical tastes though from old country to instrumental music and most speakers aren’t great with everything.

Ideally, my V1 Headphones are unique in that they are warm (no weird peaks like the Aryas or HEK SE) but spacious and detailed so instrument separation, soundstage, and micro detail are all preserved. I haven’t been able to find speakers at my price point (of about $1500) that have all 3 (wide disappearing soundstage, micro detail and organic warmth). That’s why I have a specific set of albums like you do that caters to the Maggie’s strengths which has 2 out of the 3 things I like (midrange tonality and/or warmth and soundstage).

Adding the CJ preamp would accentuate those traits at the expense of even more detail. Maybe I’m being unrealistic with my expectations attempting to put together a system with those price points in mind (especially compared to headphones). Ideally, I would like to spend about $1k on each component including cables.

@jfk011 - have you used any of CJs SS offerings like the PFR or the PF2? Wondering if those would be worth it otherwise I’m thinking of going with the Classic as it doesn’t really have many tube rolling options and they’re relatively cheap. 

@bassdude - I was thinking of that exact same thing. I started looking at Wyred4Sound amps and they seem to be up my alley. A good Class D should give me the detail I want and I was thinking of pairing that with a good tube preamplifier to round out the tonality and keep the soundstage. JC2 preamp is too rich for my blood. 
 

I’ve tried to get Mikes kit but it’s sold out. Do you recommend any replacements? I could just bypass the fuse holder but it doesn’t look like you can physically get rid of the jumper so I would need a replacement. I do plan on getting an active crossover in the future to clean up the mids so they don’t have to work so hard. 

@bassdude - I'm currently running a Schiit Saga+ that I can switch over into passive mode. I feel like a Bryston preamp might accentuate any brightness from a Class D amp hence why I was looking for tubes. I could try the Kara from Schiit but I heard it's not much more different than my Saga, just balanced. 

If I were going to go passive I would try some of Khozmo's stuff or Luminos Audio Axiom II. 

Re to Mike: By 'removing' the jumper I'm referring to taking off the back panel and disconnecting the leads but then the tweeter wouldn't function. The jumper is relatively easily to make, just a solid core piece of silver and bend it to shape. It's the fuse replacements he's making (solid copper rod that he fills with something, not sure what material he's using for that.) 

I did already replace the stands with my own - I made some Oak stands that raises the speakers above 11" I linked the photo earlier in the thread. 

Do you know if the Class D website still sells the SDS-470C or if GAN amps are his new iteration? Ideally like to buy used (not so much for cost savings but because someone else burned the amp in for me lol). 

I think next steps are trying out a new amp, trying the Saga in passive mode. Upgrading the preamp to something else if I'm trending in the right direction and then doing the jumper/fuse upgrade. I was able to get in reach with someone from 11Stereo via email (the phone number doesn't seem to work anymore, not sure if they changed it). I think the +s are probably worth the extra money (not sure how long you've had your pair) but I've heard they lose their amazing detail at first when they mellow out with burn-in. Magnepan never goes into detail with what changes were made (including from the LRS to the plus) so hard to say if they're using a  different driver material or foil. I do know the panels are slightly skinnier so that does affect the bass slightly but perhaps with a more focused imaging as a result?

@bassdude - it looks like Tom will be releasing a new model called the 'Silk' soon that will be an upgrade from the Mini GAN amp. I'm probably going to wait on that and see how those tweaks help the clarity and resolution department. 

@moto_man I believe I made a note in the first OP for about a $1-$2k range preamp. A friend's LS15 had a bit better soundstage and perhaps a somewhat better level of detail than my CJ Classic but it seemed like a lateral move.