2. amps-preamps
  3. 1158525202

Need balanced pre with HT bypass/remote/

I recently bought some great used ATC SCM 150ASL active loudspeakers on this site. They are wonderful replacements for my VMPS RM/X's, but they have put my great-sounding Modwright SWL 9.0 SE into a tizzy. Due to the SWL being single-ended there are numerous ground and buzz/hum issues that have arisen because of rca-to-XLR, etc.. Some grounding straps have helped quiet it up in 2 channel but the HT bypass continues to have noise now. Jensen isolators may help, too, but it's getting crazy. Anyway, I'm also susceptible to phase inversion and I use to be able to swap speaker leads when i thought things would sound better that way; I can no longer do that with the ATC's (no speaker leads). The Modwright inverts phase, period.

So, I am in the market for not simply a replacement for the Modwright, but I want a significant upgrade if I'm gonna do this. The table stakes include true balanced outs, remote control, HT bypass (or unity gain-fixed gain), and an invert phase switch if possible. The following are a list of contenders based on my internet surfing over the past couple of days. Any opinions on these would be very helfpul. I've read quite a few user opinions, and most list the Ref 3 as tops, but a couple folks claim they like the new LS26 better, and it's almost half the price (neither are likely available used). The other top contenders would be possiblly available used or new:
* ARC Ref 3
* ARC LS26
* ARC Ref 2 Mk 2
* BAT VK-51SE
* Aesthetix Calypso
* Pass Labs x0.2 (no invert function)

My 2 channel equipment is mainly:
* a wonderful sounding Modwright tubed-modded Denon 3910 for redbook and hirez
* a SOTA Saphire tt into a Dynavector P-75 stage (will soon upgrade SOTA, and possibly Dyna down the line)
* ATC SCM150ASl active speakers with triamps internal

Note: Although I also have a 5.1 and 7.1 setup in this room, driven by the modded 3910 hirez surround and DVD into a Denon 4806 acting as a surround pre (soon to Anthem D2 for balanced needs into ATC surrounds, as well) it's mainly my 2 channel sound I'm focused on now.

Feel free to add a pre of your choice, but it needs to include the basics. Thx much,
Ted
tedmbrady

Showing 12 responses by tedmbrady

tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
Update: Need to add VTL TL-7.5 to that list. The investments are getting pretty big now, though.
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
Thanks. The VAC has no invert phase function, though, but neither does the Pass Labs. What is the price of the MKII?
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
Thanks for the responses so far. I want to go active, and do NOT want to do cheaters everywhere. I cheater'd the ATC's and my great UK contacts at ATC went ballistic, saying that it's quite dangerous and unstable. It was quiet as hell, but dangerous. I believed 'em. Not sure Dan will mod the SWL to go balanced. It's more architectural to that than a simple mod, I think. I'll ask, but doubt it. Dan and i talk regularly so if he'd do it at all, he'd do it for me.

My ATC's are quite revealing and fairly agrressive. My listening preferences range from Cassandra Wilson and Miles Davis to Radiohead to Rickie lee Jones. A lot of jazz, alternative and female vocals, but then again Peter Gabriel and some quieter EMI stuff too (Pat Metheny, etc.) I love redbook, SACD and when I upgrade my vinyl, I'm looking forward to rediscovering my huge vinyl collection.
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
Getheleadout,
I respect the reviews that Placette is getting. However, I don't have them on my list cuz I don't think they have an HT bypass or invert phase capability, let alone their balanced out versions are more than a Ref 3. Not to say they aren't good; just aren't compatible with my needs. Th website has little info.
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
Getheleadout,
No, keep it coming. it's refrshing to see someone so enamored with a company and its founder. Good stuff.

OB,
I've been reading your posts here and at AVS. Have you heard or know anyone who has heard bot the LS26 and the Ref3? A poster on Stereophile's forum claimed he liked it better than the Ref3!? I realize many say it's slightly favored over the Ref2Mk2, so it seems to be a bargain...but the age old, is it 90% of the Ref3 and I'll forever be kicking myself for the other 10%? I realize this hobby leads us into the diminishinbg returns area fairly quickly, and then the slope becomes quite steep.

I appreciate evryone's coments so far. Here in N. Ohio we have little if any hi-end dealer network, much worse than 15 yrs ago. Luckily I travel the East Coast and will do my best to hear these pre's in varied (yuck) environments. It'll be like comparing apples to ash trays, though. Goodwin's has a few that they might be able to set up in a fairly consistent environment; I'll try there very soon.

I haven't seen anything on the BAT42 yet. And I'll look into the others, too. I realize that I can't drive all the cars in the world, but I'll try to pick a few and go with it.

Cured the noise on the HT bypass for the time being (cheater'd the surround processor) but this needs to end soon. Keep 'em coming, though.
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
I believe that Nick will do HT bypass, and he'll definitely do transformer balanced outputs (as well as inputs). The remote volume is nothing he'll touch, though, so something likethe Palcette volume control would have to be a mate.

I'm not worried about full balanced throughout, just that the ground is done right so as to eliminate any hum issues by way of XLR.
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
Ije,
I meant that I removed the ground loop from the Modwright's HT bypass by ungrounding the surround processor (in my case a Denon 4806 used purely as a pre/pro, amps are all external) by using a two prong cheater plug, and also by running the HT bypass input (front l/r's from Denon) through a Xitel ground loop isolator. I'm less concerned about my 5.1 sound right now, although this is purely a band-aid until I get a balanced pre (subject of this thread) and a balanced pre/pro (like an Anthem D2). I still need to get the remaining active ATC surround speakers so my 5.1 setup (let alone my 7.1 setup) is not well-matched right now anyway.
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
OB,
Thanks. Damn, was hoping the newer tech in the LS26 helped it move past the Ref 3, or at least catch it...but at half the price I wasn't ready to bet on it. :>)
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
Swampkiller,
Is that the Renaissance or the Ren Signature? The Signature version seems awfully expensive, even compared to the Ref 3. I can't swing >$10k.

The recent Sonic Flare has a couple of interesting takes on ATC actives. They love 'em but warn that synergy with a preamp is quite counterintuitive. They are surprised by the great marriage with, of all things, the YBA Passion 400, but even YBA doesn't have that piece on their damn website. Anyway, their warning is that ATC eats preamps for lunch and it's system synergy is quirky.....great :>(
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
SW,
LOL...I am so sorry for calling you swampkiller. LOL. It makes me laugh, though. Anyway, I will try and give a listen to the VAC. The closest dealer is in Michigan, and he has ATC's too, so should know something. He loves the Doshi preamp, as do many on the 'gon but Nick won't implement remote control; says it's too much of a sonic compromise, based on his design.
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
Man I wish I could find some ATC active owners! Here are four more that have been recommended, and a repeat idea from Bob Reynolds (the lowly pre section of the Bryston SP2 ssp).
Herron VTSP2
Cary SLP05
Ayre K-1Xe (from ATC review)
Sim Audio P-08 (from ATC dealer)
tedmbrady OP
208 posts
 
Thanks Roberts4152.

Update: I'm currently trying a Bryston SP2, and although it's day job is a pre/pro, the analog 2 channel bypass portion of it is the well-regarded BP26 pre. Although I've lost a little bit of air from the Modwright, it's sound is much much quieter (balanced) and the soundstage is much wider. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs, tradeoffs. My cables for this setup are the measly Mogami/Neutrik balanced cables that I've burnt in for about 200 hrs and so far it sounds very good. I don't think this will be my final setup (I miss the air around instruments) but so far haven't figured out how to match my Modwright to the ATC's without all the hum. Even tried a set of ground lift adapters on the XLR's and while at first they were fine, they began humming later in the session!!?

A second huge variable is that I take delivery of the new Ridge Street Audio Sason speakers next weekend. Long story but the ATC's were simply a great find while I waited for the Sasons to be built. Steve @ Ridge had offered a 45 day trial as he begins to introduce these speakers to the larger market, and I took him up on it. He is driving over from Indiana next Saturday and we'll set em up and compare to ATC's. The comparison is whacked, of course, cuz ATC's are active and use their own amps. Everything past the preamp changes. But it's all about the system, so I'll be using the Modwright, then maybe the SP2, to drive a Krell KSA-100 for now. Will update l8r.

Back to the preamp search, two new and completely pardoxical preamps joined my list. The MBL 5011, and the Bent TAP TVC preamp. One uses incredibly sophisticated (and expensive) topology, the other is a passive pre with active switching (including HT bypass, invert polarity, etc).
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