If you do that you start mixing coupling & isolation. I don't know if the Rouge responds better to either system, but my preference is one or the other (coupling for me).
If you are getting serious microphonics, you may want to look to your tubes first. I used the KenRad VT231's in my Supratek, and they were my least favorite & noisiest tubes I've tried. I found this very strange since I love the KenRad VT229 in my Soro. |
Bradz:
My suggestion, and what has pleased me, is to move to air isolation; specifically Townshend Seismic Sink or K-Works IsoBaseK.
I have had wonderful success with the "Sinks" (I have two, one under my transport and the other under my DAC). In the thread: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1105310783&openflup&13&4#13
Rcprince talks in detail about his experience with the IsoBaseK.
In my experience, tube equipment seems to love good isolation. |
I'm useing Herbie HAL-O Damping rings on all my tubes in my Bat VK5i preamp.They're the best I've tried for tube microphonics and they're reasonably priced. The Cable Company carries them. My preamp rests on a set of Symposium Rollerblocks, which are great for digital or tubes. Decoupling is the way to go for a tube preamp. The rollerblocks sit on a sandfilled Bright Star Audio bigrock. This combination gave me greater dynamics, better low level detail, and better decay. Happy Listening! Stan |
I have used the Octal Tube dampers from Vintage tube services with great results. They have a website. not sure of address. |
Another vote for Herbies Audio Labs Halo-rings. I use them in my Rogue 99 with immediate positive results. Recommended . |
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Jphii-I'm using Ken Rad VT231'S with Halo rings which helped with the microphonics. Maybe I should try different tubes? Suggestions? Jeffcott-Where can I find info on the IsoBaseK and would a base with sand work better than a maple base? Are the Ceraballs considered a decoupling device? Finfinder- Which tubes are you using in your Rogue 99 and what does the rest of your system consist of? Thanks again in advance! |
I have a Rogue 99mag. and you cannot stop the microphonics of the tubes you are using, unless you remove them. I love Tung Sol round plates but I cannot use them because of the microphonics. I have gingo balls under it and tube coolers on them and still they will be noisy, sell them. Get some Slyvania 6SN7WGT's are your best bet unless you can find some non microphonic round plates (they are the best in it, I think). Randy |
Until recently I owned a Rogue 99 Magnum and the best sound it produced was with the following: 2" hard maple shelf on top of Vibrapods with 1"x3/4"x3/4" zebrawood blocks between the maple shelf and the bottom of the 99 chassis (that's the chassis, Not the 99s feet) plus Herbies tube dampers on all four tubes. The biggest changes came with the Maple shelf and zebrawood blocks. In this application the latter were significantly better than BDR cones (either #3s or #4s)or Vibrapods directly under the 99. My wife and I did several evenings of listening comparisons and found that Zebrawood or teak wood sound best - clearer, more vivid, deeper and tighter bass, more effortless presentation. I know it all sounds weird about the wood blocks and I was skeptical even after reading the article in StereoTomes.com regarding electromachanical convergence, but there was a clearly audible difference; not at all subtle. And it is inexpensive to experiment with wood scraps from a woodworking specialty source. |
Ezekial had a great sugestion, the Sylvania WGT's. They work pretty good. But, the metal base W's, and the Tungsol round plate black glass are the reigning champs in the Supratek camp. Also the short bottle brown base Sylvania W's. I'm sure you would get the same results in the Rouge. I imagine these should sound pretty good too, for what they cost. One other brand that I really like but can never find are Toshiba's. I haven't compared the plate structure to others, but they are a GTB with a chrome top. I was extremely surprised at how good they sound and also are as close to noiseless as you can get. I only use the tube dampers on my phono tubes, but I imagine they should help also. |
Thanks again for all of the suggestions! Has anyone tried Herbies feet or the vibration isolation pads from member rcreations? It sounds like Sylvania tubes are the way to go and I'll keep my eye out for them. Jphii- Wow...I couldn't believe how much the tubes went for in the link you provided. What are the sound differences between the Syl wgt's and the Syl w's metal base? The maple base I'm interested in is from www.timbernation.com, but there is also a picture of a sandbox that was made for a customer which looks really nice. Decisions...decisions. |
Try Andy @ vintage tube services--www.vintagetubeservices.com. He may have the tube your looking for. I know he did have quite a few 6sn7's at one time. His phone number is listed on the website. Good Listening! Stan |
Bradz:
Email me off-line, and I will forward you some further information on the IsoBaseK: white paper and such. Both Bigkidz and Rcprince have had success with these units.
Regarding the several suggestions of Herbie's dampers,I am in complete agreement. Just started using them recently myself. Nice product.
Regarding bases with sand; I have not tried this myself so I cannot comment. I do know that I have seen some very well done DIY racks that employed this approach with good success. If you are interested, email me with your address and I will forward info (I think I kept it).
Regading Hebie's feet, I know that Rx8man is getting ready to try some variations of this product. Hopefully he will chime in with his observations.
My recent experience with tubes has been to have seen the eye opening differences (in my system, etc) that good isolation can make. Yes, I believe in tube dampers, but dampers alone (for me) don't come close to what isolation can do for some (not all) tubes. This recent experience has been with the 12AU7 family, but my guess is that the same rules apply to most tube families and the variations in manufacturing. |
Just my two cents worth, but Jeffcott may be right concerning the townshend seismic sink and k-works osobase K. Sand works quite well for bleeding off vibration, but... alot of people use seismic sinks for turntables. If it works well for turntables, it shoud work well for tubes. Also, a symposium ultra platform with rollerblocks would be great, but the price on that combination would be $850 or more. A lot of choices. Best of luck! Stan |
One further comment I will make, particularly in response to Talon's remark about using Seismic Sinks under turntables. When I first got a "Sink" my perception was that the most logical position was under my transport. This was nice, no question. When I got my second, I figured I would just "try" it under my DAC. WOW! The sink under the DAC made much more of a change than the sink under the transport. I must say that I would not want to go back to the DAC without a sink. |
All the suggestions were very helpful and much appreciated! I'm going to try some different tubes and a isolation product such as Bright Star air platform under the pre and probably one under the cdp. Happy new year to everyone and thanks again! |
