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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
viber6
2,442 posts
 
kren,
Yes, this thread is primarily about Jay’s journey, but it was fascinating that the twists and turns of this dac shootout and commentary led to so much help to everyone in search of their own nirvana. For example, although Jay didn’t answer my question about the Chord DAVE, poster opm came out of the blue and was very helpful. Chazzzy also was informative in being the first here to describe the essential tonality of the Bartok, which was confirmed later by opm. So even if Jay is not going to purchase cheaper items to consider for himself, these discussions led to useful input from anyone who seeks lower cost high value items. It is even funny that Jay considers the Rossini as a lower cost high value dac. If 4425 is right, then the Bartok is an even greater outstanding value.

So feel free to indicate the details of your system, so we can help with our advice. Nothing personal--you won't undress in front of us, lol.  It is difficult to A/B items at dealers, so home trials are mandatory to really be comfortable about making major purchases. This thread can help with the options. For now, I’ll say that Audio Research (if yours is tubes, and even solid state ARC) is on the warm side, although for tubes it is more neutral than the classic tube sound of Conrad Johnson and others. I was impressed with ARC sound at home years ago as having compelling musical qualities that I like, but then realized that great solid state offered more clarity, now confirmed by Jay. I am not familiar with Spendor speakers, but my guess is that they are warmer than Wilson in general. You might do nicely with the Bartok, but there is a chance that you might prefer Chord if you stick with Spendor and ARC. But if you go Wilson, then Bartok might be better for you.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
I’m happy to help you out Viber, if I have specific experience with something you need help with. You asked about Spendor, and not knowing about it. I own four of them so I know the sound well. There’s "classic Spendor" (which includes historical, current classic line, and I’d say the A line to a degree, for purposes here) and "Spendor D series." Others would say A line is just a lower cost D line, but I don’t think so - in looks, sure, but not in sound characteristics.

D series, which is what 3 of the 4 Spendors I have are (the other classic), is very different sounding from classic, and very different from most people think of when they hear "Spendor." The reason is Spendor designed 100% in-house the LPZ tweeter of the D series (research how many speaker companies make every single driver, cabinet, component at large for their speakers COMPLETELY in house, hint - not many (not even Wilson Audio), which is what Spendor does with D series; for A and classic I think they buy the tweeters or buy and modify, so not 100% in house for those).

The D series LPZ tweeter is a soft dome with a diffraction grating but which many classic Spendor fanboys find to be too bright, because they like the old pipe and slippers Spendor sound that most are familiar with. To me that sound is rather boring. The D series hits the sweet spot for me in terms of fantastic BBC era wonderful mids yet with the modern neutral and crisp tweeter. Not beryllium or diamond - I typically find those too forward (Paradigm, Focal, Magico, Bowers&Wilkins - just my preferences, others will disagree), but definitely not classic Spendor or Harbeth either. Very neutral to my ears.

So there ya go. Now you know a little about Spendor, a famous BBC era "British Sound" speaker brand, along with Harbeth and Kef and others back in the day.

I once suggested WC try it and he said he never heard of it, ha. It’s not a super popular speaker (D series) but definitely has its fans. That doesn’t matter to me. I know it’s the right one for me because I listened carefully to everything else I could before jumping in. Below $15k I haven’t heard better for my preferences
opm
40 posts
 
You might do nicely with the Bartok, but there is a chance that you might prefer Chord if you stick with Spendor and ARC
When I had the Chord TT2 I wanted a dedicated streamer and I tried a Lumin U1 mini and a Lumin U1. The U1 was superior and sounded amazing with the TT2. This pair costs the same as the Bartok and that's when I tried the Bartok and decided to sell the TT2.

Just to clarify: The Bartok is far superior to the Chord TT2 and I would venture to say that he is better than Dave. Ultimately, dCS is better than Chord.

With the Bartok you forget about more boxes, network cables, usb cables ... you have it all and with a software update policy for 7 years by dCS. It is very difficult to beat.

I need help: why do not I receive notifications to the email of this or another Audiogon thread?
golfnutz
231 posts
 
Summary of Jay's thoughts on DAC Shootout:

  1. Soundstage (width/depth) - MSB
  2. Detail - MSB (close between both)
  3. Clarity - dCS (close between both)
  4. High Frequency - MSB
  5. Bass - Tie (very difficult to decide - song dependent)
  6. Midrange - dCS
  7. Imaging - MSB
  8. Articulation - MSB
  9. Dynamics - dCS (on another level)
10. Decay - MSB

Looks like chazzy007 guessed the right DAC.

I'd say he got Articulation right.
He was totally wrong on Dynamics, and Clarity.
He said Bass and Detail were clearly strong winners for MSB, but Jay said they were close with slight edge to MSB.
Don't know how you can interpret his comments about dCS forward sounding and MSB laid back. Jay said soundstage goes to MSB, so I would interpret MSB as being more forward in this case.

So what does all this mean - absolutely nothing, other than chazzy007 turning everything into a competition. Hey everybody, what's your headphone system, mines better than yours!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
@kren:
 The msb is still in my room. i just dont have the shelve space. 
i have been listening to the DCS  Rossini lately because i used the MSB for over a month. I plan to go back to the MSB to better understand what it does after i listen to the DCS for a few weeks. 
I do not believe dcs would work with Magico speakers - too forward sounding or too much bite. I also plan to eventually venture into other speakers in the future and having both dacs in my hands allows me to have more flexibility. 
Lastly, i don't really have an itch to buy anything else right now that would force me to sell one of the DACs. I am somewhat "bored" because i have been stuck at home and i have not been at shows. I have pretty much brought some kick-ass speakers and electronics over the last 18 months so i am momentarily unmotivated to chase things that i don't care about. 
I also don't or better said "WILL NOT" beg any manufacturer or store to sell me or let me me audition a product. I've pretty much been through approximately 80-90% of the best gear out there and the remaining 10-20% might be unreachable for my budget. 

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