My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 16 responses by deludedaudiophile

@pokey77 ,

 

You have someone on here, holding themselves out as an expert, making misleading and erroneous statements. I am not okay with that and that does not add to this conversation. The poster, who is out to establish credibility and make money (he is an audio products dealer by his own admission) should be held to account and to a higher account based on his activity. His statements, so obviously wrong, call into question  everything he says. Why do you feel a need to defend that? How does making misleading statements benefit the community here? They don't.

Digital and vinyl versions are mastered differently. They can't be compared.

Everything i do with these units can be heard. I even tried an aftermarket powercord to charge the battery and proceeded to listen to the Stromtank in battery mode and it sounded different.

I thought I was going nuts but nope. The battery itself can be charged with a different flavor if you use different powercords.

 

Checks watch, nope it is not 4:20.

No point in making a condescending, snarky comment about this. This on its own is just lunacy. Think about what was written. Think real hard. Then ask yourself, is this possible, or just another audiophile day dream.

 

Nobody has answer on here with regards to the stromtank because I'm almost 100% sure that most regulars of this thread don't own one. If they give an opinion, it's an unqualified one based on pure speculation. 

 

You don't seem to have an answer either.

Would you believe me if I told you that if you were to wipe down all of your cables and electronics with a damp cloth that the system would sound better? You would be removing static by doing so... Yep, I’ve done this and it is true but then again, if i say this, i become the "crazy guy"...

Audio industry is something we don’t fully understand and this is why WE ALL will continue to keep feeding it millions of dollars. 

 

It would be more accurate to say that there are aspects of audio equipment that you do not understand. For instance. All my electronics are in metal cases, and those metal cases are connected to earth-ground. All my cables are connected to my equipment, XLRs having a dedicated earth ground (and shield)  There is no static to wipe of an earth grounded metal case. The grounding on the XLR would continuously bleed charge even on an insulator since none are perfect, however, even if it didn't, the shield would provide a 0 equipotential for the interior conductors.

I am curious. Has anyone measured the power factor and THD of these inverter solutions under a variety of loading schemes. I have to expect the low cost ones I see linked on Amazon are not very good. Is the Stromtank better? "Trust me" is not a suitable answer.

Oh it’s possible...it’s possible... But then again...how would you know unless you live with this stuff...I’ve tried different powercords on battery operated preamps and they also changed the presentation on these preamps...i then confirmed my findings with some folks who owned the same preamps and we all arrived at the same conclusion...

 

How would I know?  .... could have something to do with the PhD in solid state physics .... and that I design batteries and processes for battery MFG for a living.  My colleagues will have a good laugh about this one.

That you would make this claim, without any second thought that you may have been mistaken, calls into question every single claim of audibility you have ever made.

 

 

Oh Jay, I am not the one with the Youtube channel, with the minimal and poorly laid out acoustics, claiming to be an expert in audio, meanwhile claiming that changing the charging power cord impacts the sound when running on battery alone. That is you. That is all you.  I am not the one that has created a major deficit in credibility with their statements, again that is you talking about wiping the static electricity off grounded metal parts. All you.

Instead of being a bully, perhaps consider that you are both wrong and mistaken.

Measurements mean nothing? Good thing it is not you designing the battery for your next car or cell phone. You would need strong shoulders. YOU literally claimed that charging the battery with different power cords made a change in the sound operating without a cord. Think long and hard about that one and how patently foolish that claim is.

If you can convince yourself of that claim, that changing the cord for charging changes the sound when running on batteries, then you can convince yourself of almost anything that is not true. Get into it with me or not. It is not me who made a ludicrous statement that makes everything your have said or will say suspect.

Then you talk about wiping static off a grounded metal case. I have no words, and I suspect almost all here will understand that that is not possible. A basic understanding of electricity goes a long way.

If confrontational is to point out so things that are written that are so obviously not only wrong, but impossible, then I am good with being confrontational it seems more of that is needed.

Dave,

So, you're saying it's a ridiculous claim, but until you experience it and hear what WC hears, your claim is actually the ridiculous one.

 

He claimed that changing the cable used during charging of the battery made a difference in the sound when he runs on batteries alone. This is equivalent to not needing to jump out of a tall building without a parachute to know it is going to hurt.

If he or anyone else does not pause and go, that is obviously not possible, therefore, I really need to do better listening tests, then I don't know what to tell you. Common sense should normally come into play.

Mahgister, instead of rushing to your keyboard in a need to be heard, how about taking a step back and reading the exact claim made. That the cable used for charging, made a sound difference in the playback when running on batteries only .... then again I see you have rocks strapped to your AC house feed conduit, so I am not sure you are the best person to discuss this with.  I don't think we have a common language to discuss this. I will leave it at that.

"A lot of it has to get lost before it gets to us" .. referring to streaming ... said by someone, posting videos, and posting on a forum, on a website, over the Internet.

 

The basic disadvantage of all digital systems is the tandem A/D and D/A conversions. As you have learned, especially with the 3010, is that all other preamps have electronic colorations. The same applies to tandem A/D and D/A electronics. Sure, digital has the elegance of storing numbers instead of complicated analog waveforms. Does the storage advantage outweigh the lack of purity from the tandem electronic stages? You’ll find out.

 

As opposed to the tandem process of scratching an analog waveform for two channels into a single scratch on a metal disk, then stamping than metal disk with scratches representing stereo waveforms onto plastic and the trying to subsequently read that single scratch with a piece of shaped rock so that you get two channels out ... Oh while the scratching is bumping up and down a bit and while you have variable lateral forces, etc.

Analog tape has many issues mechanical, and due to the non-linear nature of the magnetic material, wear, tape head non-linearity, etc. which is just what I could scrape together in a few minutes of research.  In the big scheme of things, digital has far far less issues, and jitter is simply not an issue today. Not at all. Analog enthusiasts often have no idea how their system is truly performing because they think their ears are measurement devices. They have bright rooms, bright speakers, dark analog setups, etc.  When they start using digital, it simply reveals the flaws in their system that they have covered up with band-aids over the years.
 

People who "find flaws" in digital, are not people who understand digital, who don't understand the basic premise of measurement techniques and why while not perfect, they perfectly refute so many of their claims. However, it is easier to blame digital, than to accept that their perfect systems are far from perfect. Then what do they do? Fix the system? Nope, lets add more band-aids like tubes to our digital equipment.

 

As an MD, you of all people should know that an observation is just not, it is not a conclusion. Causation does not equal correlation. When someone says they need antibiotics, you don't blindly prescribe them (I hope). You do specific test, observational, culture, etc. to verify the claim and to rule out other potential causes for the discomfort.  And yet here you are, in audio, accepting single point anecdotal evidence without insisting on the detailed analysis and evaluation as to the underlying cause.  This is not a "camp" issue.  Current measurement techniques are quite obviously more than adequate to reveal the transparency or more than adequate transparency of current digital solutions, they certainly far far exceed any analog format in terms of transparency whether any of the ballywick of claims by others such as frequency response, signal to noise ratio, distortion, etc. as well as all the other poorly understood excuses about things like settling, ringing, etc. that stems from a lack of understanding of the underlying fundamental math.   Presented with a litany of convenient, but incorrect excuses, backed by people such as yourself, who while educated, clearly don't accept the veracity of the measurements or understand them, they reach for and grip those excuses rather than accept the real issues, the recording is not very good, and their system is not as good as they think, a hard pill given the spend often involved.

 

Subjective truths are only truths if obtained by objective methods. Again, as an MD, surely you appreciate the absolute insistence on double blind testing in the medical field or do you think that is just an inconvenience when the reporting on the effectiveness of these drugs under test may often be subjective, just like audio?  It Why would you set a much lower bar in audio when all the same potentials for influenced reporting (likely more) exist? 

@thezaks

 

You at least make a valid argument though most "good" DACs don’t have a sound except what’s in the media source. The same is rarely true for vinyl.

 

With my young, pristine Denon 305 cartridge, and even on friends’ modest TT systems with receivers, the CD was markedly rolled off in high freq. This was consistently true.

 

Three options here:

  1. The mastering is different.
  2. Your CD player is broke or poorly design (or something else broke in your system)
  3. Your phono systems are not set up properly.

If this is consistent record to record, then likely it is 3. Don't assume your vinyl system(s) are flat unless you have tested it to be flat. Before I learned how to do that, my vinyl systems were often far from flat. Not low end either.

I suspect that classical recordings from the digital era are flatter in expectation of typically flatter playback equipment / speakers. That is just a guess.   I am like you, I don't have any qualms about applying equalization to make something more to my tastes, not to mention whoever made it is not listening to the same system as me.