WC, this will be harsh. Your post from yesterday, 7/9, at 7:34 pm, really turned me off. You showed me, again, that you do not respect anyone else, especially those who have experiences in this field, way before you were born. You feel, buying expensive gear, connecting it, giving opinions, is something mystical or magical. You require an audience, for whatever reasons, likely from your childhood. You recently discovered SRV's " Tin Pan Alley ", and Nils Lofgren's " Keith Don't Go ", as, these recordings have been around for years, and used extensively, at audio shows, worldwide. Racks, stands, fuses, cables, have all been around for years, as well. You are still learning, which you have admitted, but at the same time, you make yourself out, to be this " higher listener ", with this hobby. I do not learn a thing from you, but do find it all, entertaining, and I do not know why. I am wondering, if you know what it is, to follow a melody, which is pretty much, the essence, of a piece of music ? How many pairs of speakers will you have set up in your room ( with only one pair connected ), and realize, you are hearing the other speakers, as well ( via the room acoustics ). I will no longer be participating in the discussions, and I do, wish you luck. I also hope, your on line used audio store, becomes a reality, because you seem to be fine obtaining gear, from dealers, at a reduced price, and selling these, for a profit ( maybe not speakers, as you mentioned ). I am not in a wonderful mood, as I write this....someone I knew, has left us, to the virus, and I am upset, living in Florida, the idiocy, of people, our governor, and yes, our president. I apologize......If I were not emotional, I would have sent this via a private message. But like you, I suppose, at this time, I needed an audience. Be well, stay safe, love you daughter, as much as you can, and, Enjoy ! Always, MrD.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 50 responses by mrdecibel
WC, are you missing the Neo’s at all ? I would wonder how the Neo’s would present music in your new room, being driven by these Pass amps. As you are aware, I am a horn guy, so this question is more centered around you, but the Neo and Focal are very different, and you enjoyed your Neo’s immensely. The fact that you sold the Neo’s, creates a feeling for me, that there were things you were not happy about, with the Neo’s. The fact that " something is missing ", I needed to ask. Just a curiosity thing.... |
WC, I am sorry for bringing this up, but now that you are agreeing, the Neo’s were way too large for your 1st room ( as I stated from the start ), when you received them, I have a question. Sure, it was still possible to perceive differences between one piece, vs. another. However, I feel most of the equipment you reviewed, was hampered, due to the improper room / speaker interactions, especially anything having to do with " imaging and sound staging ", which was, and still is, an extremely important criteria to you. Basically, if the Neo’s were in a proper sized room, your results on ALL that you reviewed, might have been different. I needed to say this, because I learned years and years ago, how crucial the speaker / room interface was, to a successful and well put together system. I am actually surprised at how long you had them. Glad you figured it out. Yes, this is the past......Again, sorry, let’s move on. |
I thank viber6 for the kudos......Just to clear the air a bit....when I purchased the Rane, I was in the business, and researched many higher end eqs. I listened to several, in my system ( strictly as eqs ), and the Rane stomped the others, as " getting out of the way of the music ". This needs to be understood. The cleaner the interconnects, the cleaner the unit. My modifications brought it to another level. Until reading viber6's posts here, I never thought of using it as a line stage. Curiosity had me pull it out of my closet ( my mods were already applied ), connected it, listened to it, and realized 2 things. ( 1 ) As a line stage, it was " cleaner " ( all sliders set flat ) than my 2, $6K preamps I had owned; ( 2 ) The Rane, like my preamps, was not as clean as my Luminous passive unit. At one time, many moons ago, I needed eq, but currently, I do not. So, in talking with viber6, I sold it to him for less than what I paid when I purchased it ( accommodation price was 50 % off, as it retailed for $699 = $350 my price ). My modifications ( parts and labor ) were a gift, as I described to him what I had done. His new Rane, is something to be reckoned with......so stop the bs.....Another thing. Soundstaging, imaging, height, depth, width, of the stage, is all artificial ( once it is recorded ), but, even to me, is something I want, and have achieved. But, pitch, tone, dynamics, rhythm, attack, decay, coherence, noiseless background, clarity, detail, and most important, the MUSIC, are all more important to me......everyone is all bats over this soundstaging thing. Systems, ime, that lack any of the attributes I have mentioned ( and there have been many I have heard ), will not make up for the realism of a performance, throwing a good image......I am just sayin...Anyone is invited to visit me, and listen to what I am talking about. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Mark Levinson, makes so much sense, about how the recordings we listen to are made, and that people are on a merry go round, buying this and buying that, trying to get these recordings to sound correct. I have said, previously, the recordings are the limiting factor, and no matter what equipment you buy, it will not be " live ". WC, your post from 11/20, 10 :45 PM, you state how incredible the xs300 amps are. You can’t think of one thing that they can do better. You can listen, and find yourself not analyzing a thing about the sound.......Your weaknesses are your front end.....Baloney........Under the last paragraph, you state you have Krell and Boulder amps in mind.....I am sorry, wc.....You are not a music listener....You are an equipment listener, and a junkie. You have a neurotic problem, that simply, no longer interests me. Your thread, is not the only thread, btw, that I have lost interest in. You are in great company. So, for these reasons......I’m out.......take care, and continue to enjoy this journey of yours. I am sure, many here, will be happy with my self dismissal. Always, MrD. |
I thought I would interject here, again, stating I never would. First of all, Happy New Year to you, WC, and everyone else. I am up this early ( actually, have not been to sleep ) since I had my, every 5 year, Colonoscopy, so, I am awake ( any who have had one, might understand why, lol ). I still, always read this thread, but a few things brought me back, to post. Ist : was the mention by WC, that there might be the possibility of horns, for 2020. As you all might remember, horns are my thing. For my ears, none of the Wilsons, Focals, Magicos, Dynas ( etc.), and panels ( any that I have heard ), express, to me, what live, unamplifierd music, is all about, and, this, with any amplification. This is just me, as I have said all along, it is all individualistic. 2nd : I have repeatedly stated, that whatever systems we buy, the " recordings we listen to ", are the ultimate determining factor, as mentioned just recently on this exact page. 3rd : This is not a negative to WC, or anyone here, but, I have not learned anything, here, on this thread. Part of this, is the extreme and consistent changing, of the gear ( I have been there, and done that ). As WC has mentioned, again just recently on this page, he is still learning, which I admire. 4th : WC’s YouTube channel.....interesting. I wish you success, and, I will subscribe, for sure, even if I learn nothing. 5th : I worked at a high end dealer a long time ago, and the larger speakers, were kept on moving dollies, located outside of the listening room, wheeled in for demo, so that, only, the playing pair of speakers, were in the room. If 3 or 4 pairs of speakers are all in the same 20 by 22 ft room, when 1 pair is playing ( I am specifying 2 channel here ), they are all playing, as the pressurization in the room, creates this. Not what I want to hear, especially when auditioning and evaluating speakers that are 10 K, 20 K, 30 K or more, are being auditioned. This is VERY audible, and " messes " things up, for the connected speakers ( this is applied to any piece of gear being auditioned in the system ). This is a problem with most show rooms, and likely, IMO, and IME, the situation, in WCs room. 6th : Steve Guttenberg, recently, within the last day or 2, had an excellent YouTube video, all about, " when do you know your system is good ? ". Well, I know, " my " system is good. How do I know ? Because, every time I listen, which is at least an hour a day, I thoroughly enjoy it, being captivated, by the " performance " I have selected to listen to. This goes back to the recordings. An example : Tonally, the violin ( I am using this instrument, for the Vman, as I am not sure if he is familiar with, say, Charlie Haden ) might be better on one recording versus another, but, it is the violinist ( along with the other musicians ) and his/her " playing " ( musicianship ), that i am listening to. I feel, my system gets out of the way of this, with every genre of music, and with every recording label. I so wish, at some point, that you, WC, can get to this point. You are not there yet ( many are not ), nor, might you ever be. If I appear to be pompous, arrogant, or conceited, I am sorry, but, this is me. I am only this way, with sound systems, reproducing recorded music. BTW, I checked out fine, in case anyone was wondering. Again, my best to all of you. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Vman, when listening in the car, or out by the community pool, I find myself enjoying the music, but, it is a different kind of enjoyment. I would not say I " concentrate " on the sound quality, when evaluating a new set of interconnects, or a recent modification I made on a piece of equipment. I always listen the same way as I always do. I allow my system to " take me " to the performance, and it will " come to me ", whether it is an improvement or not ( always different ). I feel, listening, should be, like I am at the performance itself, not needing to concentrate, but, to enjoy my time. I concentrate ( mental pressure ), when I am cutting my toe nails, or, cooking pasta, on my stove top, or, driving on the road ( being safe ) and especially, more so at night time.....if you know what I mean. If I find myself needing to concentrate ( listening to someone's sound system, or mine ), something is not right, and I will likely figure out, what, to my ears, it is. It could possibly be, my mood, at the moment. If I am listening to Miles Davis, Sarah Vaughn, or Nirvana ( simply as examples ), I should not need to concentrate, but rather, be " involved ", with what is going on, in front of, and, around me, musically. Does this make any sense, as I hope you understand. Enjoy ! MrD. |
I felt the 1st video was a bit " show offy ". " Look what I spent my money on ". The 2nd video looked like a sales pitch for the Dyna's. Sorry, I am being honest. I do not believe, wc, you are a reviewer, but, an entertainer, as the fun you can have with new, expensive audio toys. I have always felt this, but the videos make it more apparent, to me. Do not take any of this as a negative, as this is only one person's ( mine ) interpretation. Enjoy !, and great success. MrD. |
Actually, WC, equipment stands and racks, do have an enormous effect on the sq of gear, and I can pretty much guarantee, anyone owning the level of amps you own, and are reviewing, will not have them on the floor. I also want to interject, that throughout the video ( well done, btw ), I heard some descriptive words of yours that were contradictory between both amplifiers. The bottom line, however, was, that you preferred the Pass. And, the most famous statement of yours, which you have said 100s of times......" I can easily live with this, and just allow the music to flow, and be happy ". Well, this has not been true, yet, nor will it ever be. It is part of the sickness you have ( lol ), and the fact, it is still not about the music, but the equipment, and the entertaining journey, you and your followers, are on. I also feel, music playing, will not matter, so, leave it as it is. Continue to enjoy, your journey. Always, MrD. |
FYI.... a pair of Pass XS 300 listed here, for 49K, if anyone is interested. The ad states, to be from a Pass dealer, purchased for his own use. Also, some claims in the ad, that tighter tolerance components were used, specifically, for this particular pair. Could be verified, I suppose, with obtaining the serial numbers on these, from the seller, and contacting Nelson, and his team. |
I may not be a strong admirer of WC, as I am about the " music ", and he is about the " playing with the equipment ". I went through this stage, as WC is still experiencing it, and, at a grande scale. BUT, Lying to us ? Transparency ? Are you all kidding yourselves ? WC has always been clear about buying at the lowest price possible, to avoid a monetary loss, and to sell, so he can bring in other gear. This is all part of his journey, and actually, pretty common in this hobby. It is of no one’s business what he pays for something, because many here who follow him, have been, and are, potential buyers. Most of this crap being said is childish, and like WC has stated so many times.....if you feel it is not to your liking, don’t be part of his thread. If I am missing something, please, enlighten me, but, not here. I do not see what all the BS is all about. Although I have not learned anything here ( except for the perception of what one man hears ), I find this journey entertaining. Just my thoughts. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Techno....get over yourself. What is the big deal ? As you may know, I am a retired audio consultant, with a background in psychology. Are you in love with WC ? Maybe, just a high school infatuation ? Why can’t you leave it alone ? This is a hobby, and an enjoyable pass time, for all of us. Listening to music, both recorded, and live, is extremely important to me, as I am sure, it is for you. What don’t you get ? WC is a young gun, and is enjoying this hobby, his way. Are you happy with your sound system ? Do you wish you can afford some of the gear WC has had ? How deep, are your feelings ? Really.....we are listening. |
Techno, again, I am not sure what your hang ups are. There have been many products, mentioned by WC, that he was working on getting, that have not come to fruition, whatever the reasons. These are not " secrets to be discovered ". Fishy things ? Take a deep breadth, relax, and understand, as it is crystal clear what he is about. He is an audio-gear-aholic, and hurts no one. |
WC, I am sorry for getting off track here, but I need to address Techno......Techno, I do not disagree about the things you said, in response to me. However, it is all part of whatever WC has been doing. He has stated, from a long time ago, he is a very impatient person, and as long as the equipment is out there, he wants to try it, and, as long as it is a piece ( s ) he can, again, buy low, and sell, at least, for a break even point. WC needs an audience, as he wants to share his findings ( and yes, buyers ), but again, this is all part of his " disease ". I read on another thread, that you have boosted your treble control on your Mc preamp to +8, and this sounds better to you. You also stated the preamp passed the straight wire bypass test. I did not come on that thread and put you down, or question your findings. However, I am here to say, your Mc preamp is faulted in many areas of SQ, and if you need to +8 on your treble control, something is significantly wrong with your system, or, your ears. I honestly do not know what all of the anger is that you show here, but, it likely tells me, you are a very unhappy listener, as well as, unhappy, in general, with something, in your life. I am offering my services to you, if you would like to PM me about improving your system, or, just need someone to talk to, as I have a background in psychology. You need help. Enjoy ! MrD. |
WC....I would have to disagree with you on the personality change, due to the equipment ( unless defective, or very poorly designed ). Our systems are susceptible to many things. Humidity, temperature, and some other incidentals, can effect the speaker drivers linearity in operation, and I have read articles on this ( they are on line ). Even though you might have a dedicated, isolated and very stupendous electrical system powering your gear, you are still dealing with drop outs, noise and other inconsistencies, from the grid, that can also effect the equipment, demonstrated by keoliphant and his Hegel. Computers in another room, power supplies for phones, florescent and led bulbs, RF contamination, microwaves, appliance motors, etc., can all effect the sq ( from a neighboring house, as well ). Tube gear ( all gear can, but especially tube gear, and tubes themselves ) can be effected by airborne microphonics ( I have experienced this many times ), as well as isolation, or lack of, of the gear. But once a product has truly broken in, I have found consistency in sq. Because I listen daily, I leave my gear on 24 / 7. We all know, some gear can be effected more than others; an example would be, more or less of a change, with one amplifier vs. another, when going through a conditioner ( the Hegel above ). Not to neglect our ears / brain mechanism’s, the pressurization that goes on, and, our moods, which can be triggered by a meal, fluids in our bodies, extreme thoughts, and of course, exhaustion, either mental, or physical. I hope this all makes some sense, as, I am tired...........later........ |
ron17, Correct, I did say that. I attempted to " rest his case ", and to move on. My apologies. I should have been more specific, by saying, I will no longer post a response, " directly ", to techno, as my words were not very nice, and a waste of my time. I thought my explanation, might have made some sense. I will no longer speak of him. WC, is this tweak, " the new item " you recently added to your system ? Enjoy the cable shoot out...... |
I believe the term " financed ", is being misunderstood by, you know who. If you read back, wc states, the Boulder is gone, needed to finance the Magico M3. The way WC used the term " finance ", was to mean " pay for ", meaning, Boulder money used to buy Magico. Financing, usually refers to using " credit " to make a purchase, but likely, not in this case. I hope someone can tell, well, you know who, to read this post, for the explanation. And simply, the Magico purchase, was never completed, for any number of reasons. Considering the dramatic improvement the better power cords have made in sq, I would use them, instead of taking a step backwards, imo. Thank you. |
.....I have heard a few Gryphon products, and was always impressed by a " detailed purity, smoothness and control ", to the reproduction ( and, never through horns ). As an FYI, Flemming Rasmussen, the Founder and now ex CEO of Gryphon (although still involved with the company ), has been responsible for the visual and aesthetic designs of the products, and of course, uses his ears as to the final product introduction. The electrical circuits and designs, have been by some unnamed world class designers. I always found this weird, but it has worked for the Danish company. The Colosseum design, reminds me of some Halcro amplifiers, being tower designs, but taken to another level. Beautiful. I would love to own a pair of D'Agostino Relentless Monos. Wondering how they would do, driving my Lascala's, lol. I am typing this during the commercials of the Daytona 500, and am finding it fascinating, the information and the camera work, being displayed and provided, as we, the home audience, can get a greater understanding of it all. I hope there are no mishaps, and all of the drivers come out of it safely. I would imagine, you, WC, have a great understanding of the race, specifically the vehicles. Enjoy ! |
Have not watched the cable shootout video, as I am not interested. I am posting here, because something very interesting just happened. I received a PM, through A'gon, from Mr. Flemming Rasmussen, asking me to make a correction in my above post, as it went like this. " Just to let you know, that ALL Gryphon electronics the last 25 years are done in-house by Gryphons own R/D department and headed with the same head engineer for 20 years, Mr. Tom Mueller-Only exception has been of the passive speakers ". So, I was vague about these facts. I apologize to Mr, Rasmussen, as I was unaware of these facts. What is more amazing. Look at the people who are reading these threads here. Saying things bad about a product, or in my case, vague, can easily get back to a manufacturer, importer, or others. This is why, imo, I do not see bad reviews, anywhere.......Enjoy ! MrD. |
This post has nothing to do with wc ( I did tell wc I would continue following his thread and YouTube stuff for entertainment purposes ). I needed to post this for some clarity ( no pun intended ), in defense of viber. To whomever doubted the SQ of viber’s Rane EQ, this specific piece, would have to be heard, to be believed. In short, because of viber’s prior talk’s here about using the Rane as a preamp, I decided to look through my closets, and pull out my exact Rane eq model, to try as a preamp. After 50 plus years into this hobby, of owning, selling and trading audio gear; the great musical enjoyment I appreciated every day of it, and still do ; of being a " professional audio consultant ", when I lived in the NY area, and catered to wealthy individuals, who wanted my system building services, as well as being a serious singer in my youth ( which might not matter for this post, but I wanted to mention it ), I never considered using an eq as a preamp. Let me 1st say, I am a modifier, tweaker and tinkerer, and the Rane EQ unit I had, which now belongs to viber, has had some extensive modifications done to it, by me, and believe me when I say, it was night and day, superior, in sq, to a non modified, stock unit. Anyway, using my unit ( again, prior to it being viber’s unit ) as a preamp, really surprised me, in every which way, to Sunday. As good as a few 6K preamps I owned at the time ( but not as good as my passive unit, and neither were my preamps ). Good in this case = CLEAN. So, when someone speaks of viber’s enjoyment of his Rane EQ, I would hope, that a little more respect, admiration, and attention, be given, to what he speaks here. Because of his educated, acute and experienced listening ability, as both a professional musician, and an astute audiophile / music listener, he has some of, if not the best, and most informative posts, on this thread, at least, to me. Viber and I, are more alike, than different, as listeners, even though, our systems are very different, and, we strive for different things, in a sound system. If viber cares to elaborate on what he heard from his unit to my unit ( and keep in mind, he was enjoying his stock unit ), this will be up to him. This does not matter to me. I also want to point out, that viber and I, butt heads, at the beginning, but are now, internet audio comrades. Anyway......Enjoy, be well, and stay safe....to all ! MrD. |
Jay, you know the majority of your followers will never spend $1K on cords. I built my own powers cords and assembled my own speaker cables, but I use Morrow Audio IC Cables, and find them quite transparent. Look, I agree that the greater the gear, we are introduced to the information on our recordings, better than before. However, listening to sound, vs. music, is a different thing, and something I do not get here on this thread. No offense Jay, but you know it is true. You use the music, to get you to the sound, you are looking for ( whatever that might be ). There is something to be said about the classical music viber and a few others here listen to and enjoy ( besides the playing, performing and arranging ). Classical music generally does not employ over dubbing, which is a major elimination of garbage in recordings. A favorite " listen to of mine ", which brings me total enjoyment and engagement, is " A Tribute to Jack Johnson ", by the genius Miles Davis ( 1992 edition ). Of course, everyone knows " Kind of Blue ", and if they do not, they are missing out on an outstanding and historical piece of recorded history. But, as an aside, it is " ATTJJ ", that is, imo, his most standout " arrangement ", recorded in 1 take ( actually 2, as there are 2 compositions ), without over dubbing ( of course, eq, compression, etc., are used, but adds to the fact, that ime, this recording will tell you what your system is capable of. If I had hair on my back, it would be standing up, every time I play it. And when you listen to it, you do not think, bass, treble, nor other audiophile terms. If your system is good / great, it should let you forget about all of that, and listen, TO THE MUSIC, the musicians " PLAYING ", not the sounds. If I have this all wrong, I apologize. But, this is how I see things. I wish everyone a better 2022, than the past year or 2 we all have experienced, and admittedly, not everyone was impacted in the same way / ways. I believe my point was just made on this last video of yours. Listening to cables, instead of the music playing. Regards, MrD.
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Jay yes, I know it was never about the music for you. Part of me feels badly for you, as connecting with the musicians, as I do, is what it is all about, and I feel you are missing a lot ( maybe not ). As a reminder to you and others, I do not use tubes anywhere in my system ( this with horns ). For me, the use of tubes make too many compromises on " what I want " my system to do for me. As I have said before, I do respect your mission and congratulate what you have done. I suppose cars could be a good analogy ( one you have made ). For me, the car would be an experience for the drive ( ride ). For you, it would be for the car itself; the build, the technology, etc. ( I am thinking so ). Please, check out Tribute to Jack Johnson ( friends and colleagues of mine have streamed it, so I know it is available to you ). Enjoy ! |
@grey9hound Yes, for me, it is always, and has always been, about the music......the " playing ". Every component, wire, tube etc., has a sound. However, so do our recordings, as they all go through some form of electronic manipulation, starting with the mic / mixing console ( as I have stated ad nauseam ). I will check out the Deathwish soundtrack ( TY ), however, Headhunter is a standout for me. You mention John M on JJ, as I agree of his guitar work.....but Miles and the others, inclusive of Herbie ( when he enters at a later point ) are all 1st rate. I honestly do not understand how the music would not be the passion for everyone in our hobby, but, to each his / her own. Enjoy ! |
I can enjoy music while driving my CRV. I can enjoy music when sitting by the pool listening to the Polks hanging from their brackets. I can enjoy music from my phone. But what the " system " brings to the table, are all of the musical " cues ", the additional " details ", that are not present elsewhere. I am not speaking of tone or imaging, although yes, they are enhanced. Musical, to me, is what the musicians are doing. As stated by not just me, it is the music that matters. Some of us are listening to the sound of a guitar ( face it, the majority of us do ).....but, that guitar is sounding, because a " person " is playing it. Not being a guitar player ( as my best friend ), I can pick up his guitar and make sounds and create tone....but, imo, this is not music....but it is his playing, that is music. It is all about the music......not sound ( I know Jay, with you, it is the sound ). I believe, growing up around, and being involved with, live music, has helped give me the ability to listen the way I do. I feel blessed, while many feel cursed, lol. |
Same for cryogenetically "altered " products ( don't know of a more appropriate word ). Materials go through change, as does our ac source. Jay, is the ultimate audiophile ( a complement ). We are all audiophiles, as we spend money and make changes / additions, to further our listening goals and enjoyment, of our recorded music.. |
Hey all, happy holidays to everyone. A fair comparison between 2 products can only be, when the cables are the stock cables, or, all of the cables are the same. Cables ALL add their own sound (personalities ) into the system, just as an amplifier topology being used. Cables have not been addons for the longest time, but are COMPONENTS. So are amp stands. They significantly change, generally for the better, the characteristics of the sound of the amp sitting on it. Unless these parameters are met ( for the same reason a single recording would need to be played between the two ), a conclusive analysis cannot be determined. Just the way it is, ime. Anyway, I am looking forward to the Ulfs finding their way into the system. A highlighted recording I recommend for everyone, is one that will truly be " the one " to use, for evaluating anything in your system, as it goes with what I have always said : we have always been limited by the recordings we listen to. Anyway, the cd or digital download I speak of is : " Drums and Bells " (comparing sticks ), by the extraordinarily talented Tony Minasian. His other recordings are excellent as well, and 2 more releases are expected shortly. You can all thank me later, and I do not collect a commission off the sale of this. Be well, all. Always, MrD. |
Boulder has more detail, showing up negatives and weaknesses of the recordings, imo. Gryphon rounds it all out a bit, similar to adding a clean and not too tubey tube stage. Why I recommended the recording I did above. This recording will tell you what you want to know. Not much else, recorded, will do this. |
Hey folks, I crank music all of the time, and I never experience a problem with amplifiers clipping or woofers bottoming out. Nor, do I have a problem with my ears, as peaks are not constant. I own / put together a system, that caters to my wants, needs and desires, and, that did not cost me an arm and a leg ( been there, done that ). My 50 plus years of experience, as a hobbyist, an audio journeyman, and growing up around live, unamplified music, has given me the ability to know what systems are for what people ( particularly, for me ). It does not matter how much you spend, but how and where you spend it. The Ulf’s system will likely breath easy during the " death row " song, as this is my prediction, and a reason I like products like that. Enjoy ! |
I personally do not feel 82 db is loud. Coffee grinders, food processors / mixers / blenders, garbage disposals, are all kitchen appliances that are in the 80 + db range, when in use. Look up " Common environmental noise levels ". Many sites available. I also have to say.............Using $20K AQ power cords on 1 amp and stock cords on the other is a deal breaker for me, if I wanted to do a serious A/B amp demo. Jay, we all know ( and this was to be a teaching video ) of how power cords / speaker cables / interconnect cables, change dramatically, the characteristics of what we are hearing. For years, this has been the reality ( before you got involved with this hobby ). Using a Hafler DH 220 vs an Adcom GFA 545 ( of course with IEC inlets, and probably too low end for you ) would showcase differences in power cables. Always, and Enjoy ! |
" I could take my Rane and probably make the ULF surpass the Alexx without EQ. " Viber, can you explain this statement ? I use the 3 Tonian cds as tools, to compare any audio related items, as well as room / system set up. Music is good ( I would say mild jazz ); the musicians he uses for his recordings are all world class. Two more recordings by him will be released shortly. |
Other than the ULF’s sounding BIG, I thought they lacked the details of the Alexx. Actually, disappointed, as I wanted to like the Ulfs. The bass seemed boomy, lacked tightness. Knopfler’s guitar sounded distant, which is not at all as it sounds on my system. Again, maybe it is YT, but for their size, the Ulfs did nothing for me, as I like pro drivers, in well constructed boxes. Maybe cabinet resonance was the culprit. Could be the SR speaker cables. Not impressive at all. Again, just a BIG presentation. The truth is, I am never able to make a truly valued judgement, unless I was " in the room ", but this is me. Paul McGowan and others, including me, set the system up, not for imaging, but for bass weight and tightness, 1st. The speaker location and Jay's listening seat might not have been optimized for the Tektons, as they were for the Alexx. |
@ricevs, you and I go way back with mods ( you more as a business ), and I have done much of what you are / have been doing, with many products ( an example is viber’s Rane EQ ). Damping heatsinks, isolating crossovers, better parts, yadayada. These ULFs are borrowed, and are used. They likely are broken in. The purpose of Jay getting them in was because his followers showed a lot of interest. No one is denying what you speak of, and you are on every thread talking about these things. I believe, you need to give it a rest. Jay has already stated he is not interested in tweaking, anything, for that matter, not even fuses. The reality is, a STOCK pair of Ulfs ( with the one beryllium tweeter in each ) are far behind a STOCK pair of Alexx ( although I can understand why people will like the Ulfs, especially at 1/10th the price ). My best to you, always, MrD. |
@ricevs I did not mean to insult you, or make you feel defensive. People know of you, here, and elsewhere, as you keep repeating yourself. " I " do understand what these tweaks do, as I have been involved with them for over 50 years. So again, my apologies to you....and, my apologies to Jay, and everyone else on this thread, because I was an Ahole at times. But, no more. I fixed myself. Enjoy ! |
I cannot encourage enough, to Jay and all of the respondents of this thread, to acquire the recordings of Tony Minasian ( Tonian Labs ), as these recordings are some of the TOP recordings to evaluate equipment. I mentioned it before....These recordings, have been reviewed.......you will wonder why everything can't be recorded in this fashion, and this will be my final announcement on the matter. Enjoy ! MrD. |
I know the benefits of EQ, but also the harm. I used it for many years, on and off, and I know why folks use it, which is fine for them. Once a recording is produced to it's final properties, I choose to leave them alone. Eq, ime, should be for room set up optimization, if the listener finds it necessary, not to eq every song. What I find most interesting is viber's zip cord. Not that it is small gauge, because if the length is short to moderate, it can still do the current / voltage thing. Litz configurations have been used ( great article from Dick Olsher in the Absolute Sound, August 2019 ) for decades ( I was around and very active back then, and showing my age ), and I heard tremendous differences during seminars given by many of the wire leaders back then. Litz cleans things up, and there are engineering papers on why, as opposed to using zip cord. Every good cable today uses a Litz geometry, and for good reason. Of course, material, winding, insulation and so much more go into the manufacture of cables. But having strands jumbled together and touching each other at dissimilar points throughout the length of the cable ( what Litz corrects ) is what the low end and less expensive manufacturers are doing. This non Litz configuration is generally bright sounding....so there you have it, as to why viber likes it so much. At least he knows what he likes, because many people are searching for what they like. Anyway, sorry for my rant. Enjoy ! |
Jay, it is all part of the passion, and, the insanity...at least we are all on point here, to making the listening experience better. I think your thread is popular for many reasons, and people are free to express themselves ( and yes, up to a point, lol ), and share not only opinions about your journey, but theirs as well. |
I think what comes out of this recent discussion, is nothing new. Viber, you simply want to extract more information out of your recordings, and taper them, to your liking. This is no different than someone buying a new power cord, amp stand, whatever, to enhance listening pleasure. And I know 1st hand, what is capable from the Rane, for anyone who does not believe ( I should buy all of them available, do my things to them, and sell them, for a profit, but, they will be a bargain in today’s marketplace, lol ) All about music enjoyment. No different than ricevs, as what he does, is to extract more detail and information, from the recordings. The equipment, gear, room set up, etc. is all for this purpose. This is audiophilia, the high end, the craziness, we have all grown into, with the same ultimate goal. Many different pathways, to our individual tastes. My biggest disappointment, is how poorly most recordings really are, compared to the real thing ( my reference, as is viber's ). |