My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by zprr

Great analyses. Will be fun as always to ultimately hear Jay’s synopsis. Looking forward to it. 

Catching up and enjoyed the Qkore review as well. Been enjoying its impact on my system for awhile now but it sounds like it may be worth trying 2 premium cables over the standards. I have heard some Nordost dealers say it isn't necessarily worth the price, but as you say, if it gives you more of what the Qkore does....

As you said Jay, these systems are on opposites of the spectrum, if not polar opposites.  Very cool u both had a chance to experience such incredible systems in their own right.

Great synopsis Jay.  Yes, on the comment above re: Tobian speakers.

That Borresen room sounded really impressive. Those stand mounted speakers appear to be pushing $50k in the silver supreme edition.  Very interesting.

Sounds like you didn't get to hear the floor standing speakers right next to them?  Curious how good their floor standers ramp up in comparison to the O1s.

hi tubeboob. if you search for gryphon diablo 300 w jay’s handle you’ll find a variety of posts w his thoughts

ha omg
catching up on the last ~20 pages of this thread.  looking forward to it and potentially thoughts on the essence as it compares to the 860a v2...
haha I will throw in I am a believer but, for me, it has been component specific. I loved jumping from stock fuse to orange in my Simaudio 860a v2 monos and Simaudio 850p preamp.

However, I did not find an improvement inserting one in the Taiko Extreme (difficult test as it takes 3-4 days for the Extreme to resettle after full power down). In fact, as I turned the volume up into the low 80 db-c avg, I felt the Orange added a bit of etchiness and tended to be a touch shouty at the mid-high to higher volumes. When I reinserted the stock fuse and listened over the next few days, all the liquidity, richness and tonal balance came back across the volume spectrum.

That said, others have found an improvement with the Orange in the Extreme. So perhaps system and component dependent as always.

Based on @willgolf comment above, sounds like I should try one in the Pacific...
Totally fair question. Have you read all 326 pages over the last 5 years? For those that have, we enjoy the ride and the incredible tidbits we have gleened from it. It has not always been at this higher end. Regardless, for many, ha, or at least for myself, has helped inform a few audio decisions.  That aside, Jay has done ALL the hard work. I am grateful that he does. And I can point out to my family that I am relatively sane ;)
Perfect. These are the kinds of videos that keep me engaged, now that the primary platform is youtube, and what brought many of us to this thread from the beginning. Looking forward to viewing this afternoon!

I do appreciate the hard work of the shootouts but, for me, Jay’s thoughts are always what I am most interested to hear.  
And of course others that have owned whatever gear Jay is evaluating to weigh in as well. 
Thanks again Jay for all the effort. Man I don’t know how you do it with all else you have going on. 
Trying to keep up here whew. Definitely a lot of back and forth from the shootouts here and that’s a good thing.
Re: the Taiko Extreme. Single best improvement in my system, in large part because it continues to get better and better. Yes, expensive and steep barrier to entry. As Jay has mentioned, since the initial model, they created their own software to replace Roon etc that is less noisy, improved their USB drivers and rolled out improved USB cards. I initially ran an expensive switch on its own LPS which boosted the SQ notably with the Extreme. Today that switch provides negligible if any improvement. Basic UTP copper ethernet is now the preferred connection directly to it. Further, the gap in SQ between streaming Qobuz and the same files saved on the Extreme local drive is slim at best. I think it is the cutting edge of streaming digital and they are not done yet. I’m not biased lol

I too agree on the tradeoff on DACs in my experience. I was running say a $13k DAC with the Extreme and went to $30k. Feels strange to disclose figures, but that’s what they were. I am happy with the improvement but that tradeoff I feel to be in the tapering part of the curve.

Great video WC. I liked the descriptions you provided for all 10 categories.
Heart out to all those affected by today’s tragedy in Miami
jay. now that rossini and msb are fresh in your mind, and I know it has been a long time w different speakers/equipment, how would u describe the Lampizator Pacific sound wise in comparison?. similar price pt to Rossini w clock. i understand if impossible to extrapolate at this point, tube dependent, etc
Will be curious how WC likes the Ultra 5s under the XLFs. I have enjoyed the results under my speakers (wood floor). I just wish the threads were a little longer so I could adjust back to front tilt a bit more. I know that could result in them not staying fully flat on the ground surface... perhaps that is why. I believe Critical Mass was trying to find a way to adapt their speaker footers for speakers (e.g. YG Sonja 2.2) that would benefit from a tilt forward as well. Tricky.

I guess that may not be needed with the XLFs given their module adjustment features, which would be a plus....
had to look up soy and rofl
I will say that I have found the right tubes in the Pacific DAC can be equally transparent with more dynamics, better imaging and soundstaging compared to my previous ss DAC. BUT, I can believe that a ss DAC at the Rossini level could result in a lower noise floor than a tube DAC at a similar price point/build quality. And potentially that additional detail Jay mentioned. I have heard this in comparisons of the TotalDAC D1-12 mk2 vs the Pacific w the tubes I use for instance.
Hi Jay, You may have already seen, but thought I’d share in case maybe you hadn’t given your past affinity for Nordost Odin cables. I did not realize YG’s Sonja 2.2 was being used as Nordost’s reference speaker... at least that’s the report from Matej as of this past November. YG also offers Nordost internal wiring for their speakers interestingly and use Nordost cables as their reference I guess not surprisingly.
https://www.facebook.com/100058296620036/videos/1187684624962129
or
https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/11/yg-acoustics-sonja-at-nordost.html
while i enjoy reading about everyone’s ailments and solutions (a daily journey of my own), critical to everyone’s lives no doubt, can we redefine and focus what this thread is about in the audio realm? Of course, WC can make it about whatever he wants, bodily or electronic, but just as one 4+ year reader I am about to throw in the towel. 
maybe the youtube thread is the primary focus now and this is just the chatter on the outside. this may just be TOTALLY my deal and I am happy to move on. 90% of this thread seems to be dominated by a very few folks which seems like a self reinforcing spiral without drawing in new informed contributions from audiophiles w hands on experience. many folks w incredible knowledge of the gear reviewed here that do not weigh in.  love all that input of course and I still learn from everyone. but i do think if there was a redefined purpose for this thread it might help focus input and review. just 2 cents from a long time follower. sounds like more medical advice
Fantastic, and on that note, hopefully with luck, Audionet and/or Pilium might enter the room as well at some point. easier said than done. (And don’t get me wrong, I care about your health and back). Take good care
Well said. At the end of the day, hearing your views on a specific component in the context of your prior views and systems gives great guidance. Your language/adjectives, and likely ours, have evolved over the past 4 years listening to folks here - naturally. Your reflections often have provided universal guidance as well. One of your observations (I am a week or two behind on videos) was I’ll call it the ’15 minute rule’. Things can sound great for those 15 but if it doesn’t keep you in your chair and make you want to listen more... that is a critical threshold/point. I am very much trying to be honest with myself on that point and retrace my steps if something leads to fatigue after that 15 or 30 minutes. Especially trying to not add on bandages on top of one another to try to get past that 15 minute threshold - costly rabbit hole.
Yes, that makes sense although it was you that articulated the observation.  For me, in my system, it was an upgrade in preamp that, for the first time, made me hear what lack of fatigue sounded like - or considerably less fatigue that got me past the 15/30 minute threshold. Before then, being honest with myself in hindsight, I became fatigued and either had to keep turning up the volume which is not a good sign or just turn off and step away.  Your comments on the 725 resonated.  
Hope everyone had a nice weekend. A friend and I were discussing amp traits and descriptors the past few days. Because everyone’s reference points may be different, it seems like adjectives can be used that mean different things to different folks. Especially tricky to characterize an individual component as everything up and downstream can influence the sound. He sent me a link to some useful definitions that could help serve as a basis. I imagine there are other good ones out there. Was informative me for me to read and think about and apply them to my own system.

Jay/others: which amps would you put into the following camps with the above caveats?

DARK: A warm, mellow, excessively rich quality in reproduced sound. The audible effect of a frequency response which is clockwise-tilted across the entire range, so that output diminishes with increasing frequency. (Compare "light" - Lean and tipped-up. The audible effect of a frequency response which is tilted counterclockwise)

WARM: The same as dark, but less tilted. A certain amount of warmth is a normal part of musical sound.

NEUTRAL: Free from coloration.

COOL: Moderately deficient in body and warmth, due to progressive attenuation of frequencies below about 150Hz.

COLD: Same as "cool," only more so. Having somewhat excessive upper-range output and weak lower-range output.

Definitions from: http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/bbs/stereophile_audio-glossary.html

Fun video wc. That may be the best time for you to record.

I was scoffed haha at the last time I posted this by WC but I think it would be helpful to understand how WC characterizes a few amps so we can adjust our reference points to his. For example, is the Essence warm, neutral or cool as our reference point? I have heard it described as all 3 at this point. Similarly i have heard dealers of the same amp describe it as dark and neutral. depends on dealer’s reference pt....

prior post...
Because everyone’s reference points may be different, it seems like adjectives can be used that mean different things to different folks. Especially tricky to characterize an individual component as everything up and downstream can influence the sound. A friend sent me a link to some useful definitions that could help serve as a basis. I imagine there are other good ones out there. Was informative me for me to read and think about and apply them to my own system.

Jay/others: which amps would you put into the following camps with the above caveats?

DARK: A warm, mellow, excessively rich quality in reproduced sound. The audible effect of a frequency response which is clockwise-tilted across the entire range, so that output diminishes with increasing frequency. (Compare "light" - Lean and tipped-up. The audible effect of a frequency response which is tilted counterclockwise)

WARM: The same as dark, but less tilted. A certain amount of warmth is a normal part of musical sound.

NEUTRAL: Free from coloration.

COOL: Moderately deficient in body and warmth, due to progressive attenuation of frequencies below about 150Hz.

COLD: Same as "cool," only more so. Having somewhat excessive upper-range output and weak lower-range output.

Definitions from: http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/bbs/stereophile_audio-glossary.html
Thanks WC. I don’t think you described Essence as warm but it has been said by someone here. Folks also seem to refer to Gryphon generally as warm which seems misplaced.
Would you also place Boulder and Constellation (those most recent in your room) in the neutral camp?
wonderful. and, again, WC has gone on record saying the Essence is neutral. not warm. no dollop of cream, and he loved it
sounds fantastic wc. eager for the reveal.
valhalla 2 usb. very nice. enjoying mine bw server/streamer and dac but am looking forward to trying others that perhaps surpass based on direct comparisons that have been done by others.  how do u measure amp temps or built in gauge? interesting they would run differently 

Hey Jay, Hope all is well.

As you know, I have loved this thread for over 4 years, checking it pretty much daily, if not hourly. Have met friends through it even. I enjoy the participation, the discourse and the community. As you have transitioned to youtube, I must say, I enjoy the youtube content when you give your opinions/review of your gear.

Fwiw, I don’t try to discern SQ differences over utube. And fwiw it’s worth again, I have never read a comment on your utube videos, in part, as I really have no idea who the posters may be or their histories/audio backgrounds, in the discourse that has been ongoing here, even if in fits and starts.

Curious your thoughts on how this thread merges/diverges with your growing youtube presence (congrats btw) and the members only subscription you have proposed. You have provided a very personal presence and response overall to the huge variation of followers you have amassed here or over youtube. Will you continue to try to do both? Is there one venue you envision will be most fruitful for participants at this new stage (and with easy real time posting and responding)? Have you outgrown the initial purpose of your thread here? Mainly curious about your vision these next couple years, your business ventures and if/where we can support. Thanks again

As always, wish you success pushing the envelope. take care

 

 

Hope everyone has a nice holiday with some music as well.

Really enjoying the latest content Jay. I am a sealed box devotee.

Thanks for all the work and thank you for your service.

Hi Wc,
Thank you for all the work and the highly anticipated Tier videos. Curious if you can expand on your source’s (multiple sources?) opinions of the n30 vs the extreme. “kills it” seems a bit “extreme” or at least a bit bold but what is it that they prefer about the sound? Did they use the Extreme with the latest USB driver and the TAS music player? Streaming vs local playback? I assume not dealers of only one brand. and of course i assume they heard them side by side in the same system.

Regardless that I am an owner of the Extreme, I’d like to hear the unvarnished opinions of someone that has heard them both w all the same gear. Frankly, it would be the first opinion I have read in the forums along that vein and I think more than a few will be curious to hear. Will definitely make me want to hear it and would help inform future decisions. Anyway as you know I greatly appreciate your work and this community. Take good care as always
Good stuff. Maybe Jay does live on camera virtual interview w Viber before the reveal after sound a/b videos released?...  i sense viber’s star is rising.  
Confused but I may have missed it...  so WC no longer banned from WBF?  What was the rationale for the initial ban?
@jmeyers. thanks for policing but if you recall it was Jay that raised the issue in the first place and requested an explanation. These are public forums and transparency is vital to ensure their integrity. Thanks
Really looking forward to your full debrief WC.  Including on the potential ‘bottleneck’ of the speaker cable you mentioned during the early demo and your findings on the qbase.  Thanks again for all the work. 
awesome @petland. sounds like u have a lot of experience w class d and have been active on agon for over 20 years. hats off and interested to hear more of your perspective

just saw @psnyder’s post after posting. so great to hear the reviews of long time followers/listeners
Hi WC,
Almost caught up on the videos. Your commentary is most informative and what I look fwd to.

Quick aside, one of my test tracks for resolution is below. Curious if you are interested, how many times can you hear the guitarists fingers glide back to the next chord between seconds 12 and 33 on your exceptional system? Ideally stream through qobuz or tidal at 24/96.

I find this track so revealing as I listen to new components or swap cables etc.

I think it speaks to one’s system and also perhaps one’s hearing as the details are really subtle.

song: Honey Sun
artist: Elbow
album: The Take Off and Landing of Everything



i regret having posted in between what seems like an ad or at best a private conversation. 
Very interesting WC. I switched from a 20amp O1 to a 20amp O2 pc between the wall and qbase and have not looked back on bass - articulation, layering, punch, pace. But maybe I am still missing some musicality and engagement in the mids and highs? not sure. Maybe related, an area where I do not question are vocals, wonderful to my ears in my system w current system/power cord arrangement. Did your test recommended from your recent live chat re: memories.  worked. so that’s good 
Caught up on the videos.
Good summary on the 725. It must have really impressed to take the crown over the Boulder preamp! I need to do my homework to better understand how the capacitance of a preamp could be equally/more/less responsible for bass control versus an amp(s).

Ah, looks like my Simaudio 850p uses no capacitors as a 'traditional analog preamp'.  Interestingly the 850p was reviewed favorably by Jeff Fritz in conjunction with the Soulution 711 and Magico Q7 mk II.

Hi WC, I may have missed it... are you by chance heading to Capital Audiofest? Good to see the number of brands to be in attendance.
A number of us I imagine will be very interested in your results with the QKore.