2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by mrdecibel

mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, I would think these monos you are expecting might give you some excitement. Certainly I am. Enjoy! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC...#1 had more detail, via my laptop. #2 seemed a bit muted, and made me feel distant,......justmetoo....yes....Nils Lofgren, this track, specifically from his 2006 Live album. WC has a young daughter....If he gets into vinyl, it will take up considerably more time of his, and his daughter will be without a father.....a little exaggerated. I think it would be a mistake for wc to get into vinyl....especially, at the level he is at, with digital. Just an opinion, from someone who was seriously heavy into vinyl, not to long ago.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, please give wc more time to listen to the block amps. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, you seem to be off the Rane wagon ( temporarily ) and now onto something else. Why do you insist that people should listen to you. You really are giving yourself much to much credit. You are being god - like again. Using your eq to make your Mytek amp sound like another amp, if I read that correctly, makes me feel your hearing is quite different than others ( I thought we covered that already ). I take back what I said. I have little respect for you as an audio consultant, which you certainly are not. How do I know ? I just do. Listen to ricred1...….Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, that is great. I am sure you will get some listening done this weekend. Exciting times. Techno, you are not adding anything positive here, as you are just proving ignorance. There are many people who like panel speakers, as we are discussing electrostatics. WC has owned several ML, as well as other types and brands. Viper owns electrostatics. Roger M. ( Ramtubes ) owns electrostatics. It doesn't matter what you or other people think. I personally know many people who own panels. To each his / her own. WC is getting 1st hand experience by purchasing this and that, while you are reading about it. Not quite the same. So, continue your rants. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Viber, my response to you, and I will keep it short and sweet ( this is not personal, but professional ). While I appreciate the fact that you want to work within someone's budget, I happen to know many individuals who have taken out loans to purchase equipment, and pay it off, pretty much like an auto purchase. This is part of being an audiophile, not having all of that money you seem to have. As a consultant, the most important thing I have always done, was to help the client figure out, and pretty quickly mind you, what sound does he / she want, with the music they listen to, and the room they are working with. What you seem to do, MrGod, is to suggest, no, push, and constantly, " your particular likes and desires " on others, which is truly a shame. Besides, you do it in such a way, that " your way " is the " right " way, and every other way is the wrong way. And you constantly do it with wc. You need to start your own thread, so the few followers you have ( and I believe it is only a few ) will join you there. It is not surprising that you like thin speaker wire, which at below 80 db listening levels through your Audios Statics, might be just fine. But when listening to speakers that have weight to them, deliver meat on the bones, and at levels approaching 100db peaks and above, thicker wire works better, for me, and many others. Again, do it vipers way, because it is the right way. I don't buy it, nor do I buy you. I am not alone is seeing this, so I know it is not me. You will have a defense team, because there might be some followers that think you are all that. Good for them, and good for you. I wish your book would come to and end. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, excellent that everything is working well together, especially the " highs that are dialed in so perfectly ", and without tone controls or an eq. I would not think the Neos would be rolled off in the highs ( I never though that was an issue with any ML I have owned or have heard ). They needed specific, dialed in room set up, break in, and the right electronics behind them. Hopefully, things will only get better. Just an opinion, if I may...…….rather than try and pick apart the sound ( which you tend to do ), just see, with this combo, if you can " get into the music ". If this requires tequila, or anything else that can help you to relax, that will be the real test. What I am saying is, do not listen to the gear. Looking forward to future reports and opinions of yours. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, you said " and yes I still miss a lot of its musicality and just that " can't get off my a$$ " feeling night after night of listening ". Spoken about the Luxman equipment, with different speakers. I would truly hope you can get to that point with your current set up. If you are not feeling " it " right now, additional break in will likely not get you there ( and I like breaking in equipment for weeks before critical, enjoyable listening ). Wish you the best. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
@techno....yes, I like expensive audio gear. I understand, at a certain level you pay big for small improvements ( assuming there are improvements ). But, whatever dude. just be happy...….@mikepaul...? Not sure what you are implying. It is always possible that multiple thousands invested in gear " will not do it, give it, get you there ", etc. So many megabuck systems I have heard ( and some that I assembled for clients ), never did it for me, in one way or the other ( so long as the client was happy ). I made the statement because wc really enjoyed the Luxman gear, as he made that comment about missing qualities he remembered, while listening to the Ref 10, Block combo, after 3 days. I know you are a ML fanboy and owner, so a bit of jealousy maybe on your part about wc and his equipment. Again, not sure what you were saying ? WC, I understand you wanting to wait to change the power cables. In fact, it is nice to see you taking your time, adjusting, and allowing break in time to occur. After 3 days, I would have changed the cables. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
@mikepaul, it’s all good, as I was hoping it was humor ( we actually can use more of it, that is for sure ). And yes, things do take quite a long time with this level of gear ( your system seems excellent btw ) to dial in and break in to reach maximum performance. That is, until the " bug " bites you in the a__, lol. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, if the supplied power cords that came with the Block amps are not at least 12 gauge ( which I do not believe they are ), that alone, when you change them out, could be attributable to any improvement you will hear. You are starving them. Uh OH, I am sounding like...….Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
I am not a car guy like wc, so maybe my analogy will not be good or understood. High speed cars do better with appropriate tires. Use ordinary tires, the car's performance goes down. For years I have been hot wiring heavier gauge power cords to some amps I owned ( non iec ) with unbelievable results ( even on a little gem of an amp such as a Rotel RB 850 ). Anyone reading this particular thread ( maybe with the exception of one or two of us ), have easily heard the improvements, superior, after market powers cord make. Snake oil ? Scientific data ? Who cares, if you hear it, you hear it. Zaks, I have built many cords, and yes the connectors make a difference as well.  This is why I recommended to wc to use his ww cords. Mikepaul, I am surprised ? I can only say, you are missing out on so much of everything. Try one with a money back guarantee ( or, the cable company ). Even some from China ( so many under $100. ) That's my story and I am sticking to it. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
techno, I was at a buddys home some months back during the summer time, and we did a power cord shoot out between several top power cords, including the Shunyata Alpha. We both preferred the Audioquest Hurricane. It was tighter, faster, more extended at the top and bottom and just seemed to be more open. The Shunyata seemed a bit bloated, and slower. This was on a Levinson power amp. I am not suggesting that it would be superior in every case, because system matching is very important, but in this case the Shunyata lost. Jafox, many years ago ( in another galaxy ) I attended a seminar with a cable company ( Fulton cable, speaking of their Gold series speaker cables), and they were speaking about gauge of wires, and showing us, and playing us a system with these huge, monstrous cables. In layman's terms, they compared it to a garden hose ( or even a sink faucet ). The more you open the valve, the greater the water pressure. It sounded sensible at the time, and still does. But again, I only go by what my ears tell me.  Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Look at the number of pcs at or under $200., all claiming excellent wire, connectors, build and engineering construction. I have listened to quite a number, and each and everyone is different, and some, better than others ( all in my system ) I have had 2 manufacturers of pcs send my cables for my evaluation, with a disclaimer, as I was not to talk about, them, unless I " loved " them. I would enjoy the honor  to evaluate grannyring's pc, but would require a 5 ft length. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, that is awesome.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
mikepaul, I am 20 minutes south of Daytona and a 4 hr. drive north of wc. My lights have started to dim, and my system has lost all of its bass, as I am assuming his Block monos, with the Shunyata cables, are sucking up all of the juice throughout Florida. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
I know cars a while back needed to be driven slower for the 1st 1000-1500 miles, as recommended from the manufacturer. My 2018 CRV had no stipulations of such, although I drive the speed limit, and rarely above. I have found, in my 50 years of audio, that each piece of gear, and this includes cables, requires some time to break in, and I know it is not my ears making this crap up. Besides tone smoothing out, the flow of the music seems to be more organic, " free flowing ", if you will. Bass, in particular, has better movement, momentum, articulation, rhythm and pace ( prat ). Yes, I said it. Anyway, enough about me and what I hear.....WC, as always, enjoy the ride. Still my favorite thread ! Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Guido, thank you for understanding me. WC knows I mean no harm. This is my number 1 thread. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, thank you. Always my best to you, and for you. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
bill_k and almarg, things about class A I never knew. Thank you, Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Interesting, that we are dealing with recordings, which, go through a mic, or a mixing console, of some sorts, so that sense of real tone, which seems to be what everyone here is commenting about, is recording dependent. If we would listen to PRAT, dynamics, fortissimo, and pianissimo, which are the " givens " in music, maybe, things will change. A recorded violin ( and I am using this instrument for viber6 ), loses some of it’s proper tone ( viber has told me, he only owns a handful of well recorded, true to the tone, of a violin, recordings ), once it hits the mic. If the tone of a violin, sounds bright, wouldn’t some one, want a smoother, rounder, softer ( tube like ) piece of equipment, to accommodate this particular piece of music. This is why, I will never ( and I suppose I could ), spend, outrageous amounts of money on gear, again. And, as I stated at my beginning of THIS post, and other posts, I listen to those musical attributes, although still recorded, are existent, in live, unamplified music, and I want to hear my performers, play for me. My expectations of tone, and soundstaging, are actually, a bit, make believe, because, it has gone through the " recording " process. I would not trade, even up, what I have, for the Wilson speakers, because I am happy, with what really matters to me, most. I would trade up, however, to a pair of Volti Vittora, with the Bass Module. Enough of my rant....Enjoy !, and be well.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
And this is 1 of the many reasons I stopped posting here. Happy New Year to all......and always......Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
I preferred the Dag, based on this particular comparison....but things like cables, were not the same, which makes it an improper comparison, ime.........btw, I had a VSP Labs Gold Edition amp, pass through my listening room, back in the day. It would need a COMPLETE overhaul today ( input boards, output caps, possibly the output mosfets, IEC inlet, etc.), with newer parts throughout ), to be competitive with what is available today. An expensive proposition, imo. Worth it ? I would not think so, on a resale basis. SQ ?......was a good amp back then, but maybe, you would think so. Enjoy !, and be well.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
I started my rant, based on the comment WC made " I sit near the rear wall, which enhances the ooomph factor ", or something like that. I said my piece....enjoy on !
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, by sitting near the rear wall, you are, and seems happily, adding room coloration to your system. I have " never " enjoyed having my listening seat close to the rear wall, and in fact, it helps in eliminating " the room ", as part of the sound system. I find it interesting, actually, with the money you have spent, on the gear, and the room, you enjoy the rear wall " enhancement ". Not my thinking, but you know what you like, I think. Always, Enjoy !, and be well. MrD. 
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC.....all well and good....but, getting our ears, away from the room boundaries, as we do with speakers, has been a philosophy I have followed, for the 50 plus years, in the industry, as a consultant, and as a listener. Look at the thread " I can prove your room is bad ", by eric_squires, under the speaker threads. You are in the minority on this subject.....People usually do not have the luxury of sitting away from a rear wall, based on the room size / decor, etc.. You, I believe, have this luxury. This is no different, than going to Carnegie Hall ( just as an example ) and looking for that sweet spot, that perfect seat. No one will " want " to be in the back row. I guarantee it. again, ymmv.....Please, no offense, but...you are still learning, and, cannot take criticism, or accept opinions, that might actually be, correct. I will leave you alone know.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Listen, I have been on your side, since the beginning, and I am a subscriber to your youtube channel. What I am saying to you, has nothing to do, really, with the equipment, but, with room acoustics. You can experiment, with a desk chair, which is a way to change " your " location in the room, relative to the speakers. You can leave them positioned the same distance from the rear wall behind them, but maybe, you will need to move them a bit closer together, and change the toe in. It is all experimental. You will be listening " closer ", but I promise you, they will still disappear. What you will notice, with a nearer field listening situation, is a sharpness, a quickness, a tightness, a cleanliness, that you think you are hearing, now, but, you are not. That rear wall, being close to your ears, is coloring the sound, as you admit. Isn’t that the reason, people buy the gear, to get the neutrality that they want, the accuracy they want ( yes, color, as well ). Get the room, out of the equation. Simply try experimenting. If you look at many of the top sound rooms of listeners here, on their photo pages, most have their seat away from the back wall. Every recording studio I have ever been in ( admittedly, it has been a while ), the engineer is sitting close up ( near field ) to the monitors, and far away from any and all room boundaries. Buying expensive, better gear, should be more of a reason, to take this approach. What do you have to lose, except some time, muscle ( which I know you have ), and truly finding out, how stellar, your system is. You can always go back to the way it is. Why not, ask others here, for their opinions, although, unless they have experienced what I am suggesting to you, it will mean little. I do not have a degree or a doctorate, in room acoustics ( never claimed that I did ), but I do, have many years, of actual experience. I wish you well, always. This, will be an education, for your ears....I promise.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
" A private audition " might mean it is not an amp he has purchased ( on loan )...so yeah, I am thinking it is the new Coda 16, which is getting some say so, as how wonderful it is, and it is priced similarly to the Lux, with or without the meters. " Soulution like grip " ? WC, have you had one to listen to, to make that comment, as you never repeat quotes, or adjectives, of others ?
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Techno, you are proving your ignorance and lack of knowledge when it comes to electrostatic design, which go pretty far back in time when they became available on the market. Electrostats are some of the most transparent of all speakers ( even though I am not a fanboy ). Just sayin....An addendum to my previous post.....Most Mcintosh ss amps use output transformers in the signal path, and many folks like them. Enjoy, MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Faxer ( Steve ), you are the dealer you speak of. It would benefit you to stay off a thread like this. You are being negative of electrostatics, and in this case, of an 80K pair of speakers and promoting your own carried product. You have done this on other threads and I have called you out on it. I will report you if you do not state you are a dealer. Another thing......Many tube amplifiers, passive preamps and phono stages use transformers in their output stages, and people enjoy them. So, what is your point about transformers. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
I believe those are the Neos keithr referred to. I'm confused ?
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, I get no credit ?, as I brought it up 1st. I should has specified the version of TPA on " Couldn’t Stand the Weather ", as this version of Tin Pan Alley, since it’s release in mid 1984, has been a standard of every audiophile, even many with a greater interest with classical music. And yes, it shows up on SRV  greatest hits releases.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
I have been known to be " repetitive ".....guilty.  lol
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
The 30.8 is an incredible sounding amplifier. 
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
" Buyer Beware "and " Caveat Emptor " are 2 principals ( kind of the same, actually ) I learned a long time ago. Still, there are bad people out there...….we need to do our homework, and exercise due diligence, before any transaction.   
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
A few factual comments, and a thought or two......Acoustic Live, by Nils Lofgren, was released, on cd, in 1997. The track, Keith Don’t Go, has been used for years, for audio system demonstrations. My Luminous passive, at a retail of $1200, might be considered cheap ( at least on this thread ), but using recordings such as this, I do feel, an active preamp, only hinders, the recorded information. This has been my experience, and in truth, the levels of preamps, in my own listening room, have only reached retails, of 6K. As stated by wc recently, and, which I have stated, many times before, on these pages, and elsewhere, we are at the mercy of the recordings, and with each recording we listen to, one piece of gear, might be appreciated more, than another. So, with many of you ( me included ), if not, all of you, the merry go round, will continue........enjoy, be well and be safe.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, with communications such as RIAA and Greyhound, Viber, and my embarrassing hostility towards him, are some of the reasons I have not been active here. Be that as it may, you must have liked the Rockports at this local home to you, enough so, that you are considering them, even though you said the room was not appropriate. Same thoughts of mine with your Neos and your room, although you seem to have made them work. After 50 years in high end audio sales and consulting, I wrote a post on another thread that I wanted to share with you, and your readers. HERE IT IS : " I believe an audio system, as a whole, should be able to " show forth " the recordings, in such a way, that when you are in your listening seat ( the sweet spot ), you are hearing your favorite artists and musicians, performing at their  " finest ", in their chosen acoustic space, and you, are completely engulfed, and entertained, in the experience ". I hope, one day, you get there. I have, with very little money. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
RIAA, I so apologize to you, if you thought my intentions were negative in any way towards you. Contrarily, the only person on this thread I ever had a problem with, was viber, and my handlings of it were rude and unnecessary. My example was given, only as a recent example, of all of the bantering and nastiness between posters, not just on this thread, but on many others as well. I admit to all of my own nastiness, but I am finding myself losing patience with so much of the verbiage and attitude showing up everywhere. If I have become weak at the age of 65, well, maybe. I do not remember, 20 plus years ago, this going on. So many know it all’s ( including myself ), and the butting of heads. Just too much. I would love to take WCs advice, and just ignore it. Again, I do apologize to you. BTW, the attitudes between posters are not the only reasons I stayed away from this thread, as I believe I indicated (  " are some " of the reasons ). Always, MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Ever listen to an orchestra, band or group, and they played horribly together, during that particular performance. Timing was just off. Systems can be " off " in this way, and this is more important, to me, than ultimate detail and definition. And no question, dynamics, as I have stated before. But, it is possible to have it all, if you know what you are doing in setting up a system. Regards, and Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
wc, viber…..Perfect ? Does it all ? Never said that. I used the word " finest ", as an artist or musician will generally, never have a mediocre performance put down on a final pressing = the recordings we buy. My system plays "everything " and " all kinds of music " very well, and sometimes, scarily real. Please read my quote again. My system does for me, " what I want it to ". If I was given a set of Neo’s, I would sell them and pocket the money. Maybe get a pair of JBL 67000, or Volti Vittoras with matching subs. I do not have the room for the AG Trio XD system. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, once again, I disagree. In fact, it seems to me that you are not as educated in audio system set up as you are as being on or near the stage. More power to both of us. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Those definitions are taken from several dictionaries, so it is good you agree with them. 
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, make a trip to florida, visit me, visit wc. You will get an education in system set up, at least at my place.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
a great point made by ihasaguy, 1st paragraph in his post. viber, as I find myself in disagreement with some of your statements, again, I present a question. Given your system as it is now, how many people would feel your system as accurate ? and would it be accurate with any and all kinds of music ? Would this accuracy be realistic ? Once a system is properly set up, it is the recording that should give you that " distance " or " outdoors " perspective you speak of, otherwise we would all be adjusting our speakers on wheels for every specific recording we play. I have had audiophiles, music lovers, musicians, and just regular folk, listen to my system, with their own recordings, and most peoples jaws were agape. It did not matter what the recording was that was playing. And interestingly, and this surprised even me, people asked me to raise the volume, never lower it. But this does not matter in the scheme of things. Unless I am away, I get in at least an hour a day of listening, and my system plays " Midori Live at Carnegie Hall "as well as " Rage Against The Machine ". As you also say in response to the zaks,, " My sonic priorities are different than post people here and elsewhere ". Hmm. Are you right in the way you listen, and everybody else is wrong ? Because throughout your entire posting here, this is what I hear from you, and it can be annoying. Maybe a trip to Florida for vacation, and to hear my system will open your mind, and ears up a bit. You could also visit wc, as he is 4-5 hours south of me. BTW, I am not looking to fight, but you are a reason I am not here much. But, I have been invited by wc, and I might stick around. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Can a pair of Audiostatics, such as those owned by you, viber, and I will be gentle here, reach musical peaks of 95 db, cleanly, without break up, compression or distortion ? Any system that has a hard time of this, and I have heard many, fail. Is this " audio fantasy " ? I do not think so in the least. You want to talk about live, unamplified music....anytime...…..
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
wc, I know Volti Audio will be at the show, and I am hoping Greg Roberts has his Vittori full range horns and matching subs there, playing in there full glory. A full range horn, with bass augmentation from say 60hz down. Fabuloso !
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
A few definitions of high fidelity : the reproduction of sound with little distortion, giving a result very similar to the original.....the electronic reproduction of sound, especially from broadcast or recorded sources, with minimal distortion.....sound reproduction over the full range of audible frequencies with very little distortion of the original signal.....the reproduction of sound using electronic equipment that gives faithful reproduction with little or no distortion.....I would have to say that there are MANY characteristics in sound and music reproduction that fall into this definition, and what one feels are his / her " priorities ", are just that. Very specific to each and every one of us. And it seems to me, most of us understand this, our individualities, our uniqueness, our priorities, and maybe, one or two of us, do not. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, I owe you an apology. So, I am sorry. Continue with your great knowledge, and I will simply not respond....WC, Try and listen to as many horn systems at the show, because it is my sincere, professional and non professional opinion, you get closer to the real thing, than anything else. And although nothing is perfect, they do more right, than wrong. I believe the Volti Vittora, with an ELF, will enlighten you, astound you, capture your ears, and your heart. And, they will work in your room. Nothing like a full range horn. As always, Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, back at you, my friend. But, here is the thing. You are still making your listening beliefs known here, and this is imo, as a performer, and not an audience patron. If I am 35 ft from a stage, in say the 1st few rows, and I am listening to a solo cellist, which I have, the sound from the cello does not sound small. Now, if I were up on the stage, just a few feet from the musician, the size of the instrument will be more specific and smaller in size. More abundant in the power and clarity, as you say. This is how acoustics works, as I took a few courses back in the day. BTW, I owned Advents, and double Advents, and they did do some things very well. In reality, there are several reasons my Lascalas work so very well, and when wc hears the Vittora, he will enjoy them, believe me ( and yes, I believe PWK was a genius ). The bass horn is amazing, not just on it’s own, but it blends so well with the mid horn. A major reason I could never like the Neo’s, as my ear is very cognizant of the lack of coherence in that region. A major reason I feel many horn hybrids are not as truthful as a simple pair of Lascalas. EL hybrids are the same for me. I owned the original CLS, as again, back then, they did some things very well. But matching them to my Janis subs was just ok. I used a Bryston active crossover, with similar amplification for both, but I still preferred a pair of Lascalas I had in another room. People who I know own the venerable Altec 19s. A fun speaker, but the discontinuity of the 15 inch bass driver with the horn, ( which I do feel the horn is wonderful, with modifications ), is not a realistic combo. I hear it on every instrument and voice, but yet they are popular and sell for what a pair of Lascala’s go for ( on the 2nd hand market ). Another aspect of the Lascala is that the horns are close together. This makes the speaker work in an almost near field situation, and it does produce recordings showing the natural size and space, unlike what you are saying. You likely never heard a pair. A reason they are still being manufactured after all of these years ( along with the Khorn ), and many of them going overseas. Anyway, my point is, and has always been, you are a unique and different listener than most. Your ear is very fine, and I understand your desire for detail. If I can hear a difference in changing out a regular fuse to a better fuse in a piece of equipment, I think my system is pretty much detailed ( not going into that subject here ). Are they perfect ? At the selling prices, for me, pretty close. And I know how to eliminate all of the nasties that people have complained about for years. And the Vitorras, they are quite incredible, and thinking about it, knowing everything that is available out there, for my current listening room, they are what I would get. They, imo, DO IT ALL. But, I am happy. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
wc, just wait for the show. I believe you are searching for that " jump factor " that real, live music has. Just a matter of time.....lol
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