Here's to the possibility of opening a new door into your music.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 44 responses by bigddesign3
I would keep the Neoliths. And sell everything else you have to. It shouldn't cost more than $12k w/electric for what your'e asking for. Get a second estimate if they want over $20k to build the room. I have a soundproof room in my garage 20X16, and it cost just over $3k in materials. Contractors will charge whatever they think you will pay. The same job could be double of what the other contractor offers. I really liked your last setup of your system. Congrats on getting better sound. Sometimes that's not the case. |
Sounds good. Question? Are you still thinking of doing the Home Theater setup in your existing room? Would love to hear your thoughts on a 11.1 or 11.2 system that you had mentioned. Curious as to what brands of speakers you would choose. I just have to mention that Martin Logan has the Motion Speaker Systems with regular speakers and that nice sounding ribbon tweeter. The Motion XT series has quite a good total setup with Atmos and the side speakers. And of course, I would recommend REL subs as a great addition to no overdo the bass. More like an extension to existing speakers. This is just my recommendation. Love those ribbon tweeters. I have 2 of the Motion Vision Soundbars, and I love the sound. Never irritating. Just a suggestion. |
Sony has a nice 85" LCD TV. I, over the years have found a LCD brings so much more robust color than a projection TV. Most all my friends back in NJ have changed to the largest LCD screen possible. The clarity and brightness is just better at any distance. Computers can be run on the sofa. Sony XBR85X900F ($4,500.00). I just don't like OLED, for many reasons that I won't discuss here.
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That’s some serious horsepower you got going on there WCSS. The Constellation Virgo Preamp could make for some good sound with these amps (over just going direct with Lampizator). I’m betting the Rowland 925s will give the most powerful presentation. But that ARC 160....... who knows? It could be very lush sounding, and you can’t stop listening to it. The Constellation is still a great set of mono amps, and just as powerful. You are in for a treat testing with your Neoliths. |
Gryphon Mephisto monoblocks.... the beauty, build and they are probably going to give the foward powerful sound like the Krells of old. Neoliths could really like them. I'd bet that they will blow away just about anything you are comparing now. As an amplifier guy, I just love to see a "beast" of an amplifier setup. Wow is not strong enough. |
I'm not sure if my take on what you should do with the new room is worth anything to you. Sometimes I wonder if you think I'm a kook. Anyway, I would be more than happy to help. I did this stuff for 25 years (Home Theater and High End Audio). I can not overstress that you should have the length (22) front to back for the setup. Sound always sounds better with room behind you. Otherwise you will have a bass loading problem. Having a Double Curtain that pulls open from left to right to cover the TV and home theater speakers really does help to have a 2 channel listening session that will be so much better than having the TV reflections change the imaging. You should be able to put an 85" LCD on the wall. Then you shelves and stands will be 2 feet out from the Double Curtain. Put it all there. There will be plenty of room for all the equipment, except for the main 2 channel amplifiers. They will sit on floor stands right in front of your shelves. Home Theater I assume you will put 2 sets of side speakers, 2 rear speakers, front speakers with Atmos speakerson top that integrate with the fronts. 2 subs (REL is best) You don't want some slow sub that is not fast enough to keep up with the explosions. I recommend the REL S5, or the REL 212SE. You know what amps work best, and I find Marantz is the best Preamp to connect to the home theater amps. You could add 2 more REL subs behind you with the Longbow Wireless system. Speaker choice is up to you. I mentioned before that I like the Martin Logan Motion system. The front 60XTs have won awards with Absolute Sound. And they have such a nice Atmos add on.r In regards to the system power...... put it all on the TV wall. Of course there will be regular outlets all over the room. You may want to consider getting (2) 220 volt outlets installed. Some really good equipment (amps) use it to not starve the amp. OK That's it for now. Let me know if you care what I think. I just get this feeling that what I say doesn't matter, and I have no experience. NOT TRUE. |
MrD is right. The other speakers can act as passive radiators. But sometimes that is good in certain rooms. Makes kind of like a bass trap or it can rid of reflections. It's a mixed bag. It doesn't seem to hurt the imaging in my Martin Loogan Montis. I have a JBL Professional series system back about 12" in between the Montis. Pass thru systems with integration of HT and Stereo lose sound quality. You are kind of fine doing it. But that last little bit of resolution could be taken away. @ricred1, The 4K projector system you mentioned is something I haven't seen. I don't get out anymore, since moving, so places to see projection systems are not near me. I assume that you can't have the curtains drawn open when playing it. That's the deal breaker for me. For the love of God, put the Neoliths on the short wall, and have the length of 22ft for your listening. You do not want bounce back from the back wall. I have my system in a 19X30 space now. It took 25 years for me to get a proper room again. I had the type of rooms before that were too wide where I placed my speakers. Or I got married with 2 kids and 2 channel went bye bye. |
2 separate systems (HT and 2 Channel) is the way to go. You want to be able to have the Center Channel up on the wall also. You can have something like Martin Logan XT35s on wall mounts angling down in the front also. Marantz is the go to for home theater for preamp. Leave the systems separate. Real high end 2 channel sound should sit just the way it's supposed to. And you can change out the equipment with ease. All Home Theater speakers should be on wall mounts angled down above the Neoliths. Have you seen the difference of a Sony 85" LCD over a a projector screen? It's a no brainer to have the LCDs brightness and clarity. Mixing the 2 systems is a big mistake in my book. You want your high end stuff to just play 2 channel, all by itself. Have that system set up first and dialed. Then you can get your front L/R and center channel speakers for HT dialed. With 2 rows of recliners, this setup will work wonders. If you want floor standing L/R speakers for HT, put them outside of the Neoliths. I have setup so many systems like you want. Doing it the other way is not going to give you the HT results. JL subs are also good for HT. |
Speaking of AC Units. Ductless Systems from Fujitsu are 28" wide. You can find a spot for one on the long wall. It has a SEER of 21 or better. These are used in the Homes in the Caribbean. Easy to setup, and twice as efficient as regular AC. I still standby the Double Curtain Design of hiding the TV and the front speakers with a design that opens up like they do at a Play that you would go and see in NY. It will make a large difference with rear reflections from a dipole speaker. |
Marantz AV8805
Ebay brand new $3,189.00. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-Marantz-AV8805-13-2-channel-home-theater-preamp-processor/1534718... This is a great processor 13.2 and does the 4K the proper way. I think if you are building a HT, you need amps. This is the only way to make the movies real. Especialy with JL subs in the mix. There is a Marantz AV7705 for $2,200 new or $1,699 refurbished. Also with 4K capability. YOU NEED REAL AMPS. |
DCS.... no stone unturned here. Just wanted to mention about the Neoliths. Absolute Sound gave an excellent take on how good the Neoliths are, and it shows why they are so worth it for the money. http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/munich-high-end-2019-loudspeakers/ |
The JL subs have way more punch, and many prefer them for HT. The Fathom is insane. For 2 channel, I like the RELs better because they blend so well with full range speakers, and are super fast. Some of us crossover the RELs at 100-120hz. I haven't heard the REL no.25, but I read a glowing review of them from an English website (Home Cinema Choice). Of course, you would need 2 of them. And they are beasts in size. The review explains why I like the REL brand better. https://2y2ro62wfbas3svllg2i0s1t-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/HCC_271_Rel_sub_... |
Or the Shunyata alpha NR PC is more on the side of non-filtered. I'm not listening to these things, but it seems that the Odin 1 filters out quite a bit of lower end meat to engage you with more in the mids to highs. This is not a bad thing for some components, but it is filtering per se. Cords are the gateway to system synergy, but be careful of low end foundation loss. It can change the face of the whole recording. I don't know how much Shunyata alpha NR power cords you have, but it would make sense to use some more of them, and stick with Nordost speaker cables? While I'm at it...... some Shunyata Denalis would be nice to check out. |
Glad you're keeping the Constellations. Sometimes, especially in your case with the Neolith, it is the full balance from top to bottom that will bring out the best in the Neoliths. Then there is the extra current, when needed to have the music produced as the artist intended it. Other than the Progression Monos, or the Momemtum Monos, the bottom end punch with the musicality of the mids and highs will be hard to beat. The preamplifier will be the place where the goods may still be found. Just wondering what your take on Robert Harley's article on his new sound room? I was amazed at the construction, myself. And the mention he made of the power outlets making a difference, was something that I really didn't think mattered that much. To him, the difference was quite large. |
I thnk if you're going to spend serious cash like WCSS is..... that the system should have a capability to throw some massive 3D sound when asked for. Some don't have the ability to do that due to their surroundings. Others like me have been in a brochure for playing the stereo loud, and the cops knew me by name at that time. Now I'm much more restrained, and don't play Peter Frampton at 4am with the windows open. But I live in an area that has a concert hall 1/2 mile away from me, and my home is insulated so well that you can't hear a hurricane when you in one. To each his own. My car stereo business designs were always audiophile and ear splitting, and not bass heavy in a way that would be "all about the bass". It is wonderful to have some "slam" when it's time to blast it. I could not imagine life without some "slam" to it. |
I really like your home theater design choices. I have 2 of the Martin Logan Vision soundbars, and the folded motion tweeters are never fatiguing. ML in-wall solutions have been around for years, and are one of the best ones out there. The REL Predator subs are closed box, which I prefer over ported subs. They should be fast and accurate. Epson projector, the best. Looks like a winner. |
The Neoliths are a great reference point for testing. A preamp is NEEDED for the full sound that we all love that gives the instruments body, and allows for the volume to be raised properly. No matter how you bake it, go with a preamp. The only speaker that might unseat the Neoliths in the new room is the MBL X-Treme at over 3 times the price. |
Very nice projector screen. Looks to be a very good sound and video room design. Have you thought about the front wall speaker issue, and have a conclusion as to not bothering the family with sound when watching movies? Most of the impact from watching Movies comes from the front 3 speakers. It would make sense to be able to blast them when necessary. I still think the best reward for home theater sound (now that we know that in-wall is bothering family) would be real boxed speakers with brackets that angle the sound from high up on the wall for the f/l, f/r, and the center could be high up or below screen. Either center location would work. In the end, you want a touchdown. This front offending family wall makes for IMO, a re-look at what will bring the best home theater sound across the goal line. |
In reference to the Door issue...... Acoustic Foam works to a certain extent, for sure. A solid wood door will kill a ton of sound leakage, compared to a regular inside door. I have solid doors in certain areas of my home, and it works quite well with door seals. I’m not sure if your door is solid or not, but they would be a great choice with acoustic foam. I have seen this done at indoor shooting ranges also. If you want higher quality speakers than the Martin Logan 35XTs, and 50XT centers, there is some great Dynaudio or many others from European designers. Across the pond, the homes can’t support larger speakers, and they have some killer bookshelf choices with centers. The Martin Logans can handle quite a bit of power, and I love the sound of their ribbon tweeters. |
You would have to spend more to get better sound than the Neoliths. I'm sure that some of these quarter million dollar speakers may give something else, but I would rather be driving the latest Ferrari to check the waves. For us regular humans, you are giving us such a treat going down this road. The amplifier means everything with good speakers. The Neolith shows sound in a way that you can determine the quality of the amplifier in ways most speakers cannot. I still look foward to you getting some more powerful D'ag amps or the Gryphon amps hooked up to the Neoliths. Here's to hoping your new room brings you much joy and excitement. |
WCSS, Sorry for the Marantz recommendation. Didn't know how much it would affect things. Nice to see that you got the projector working good now. There is a time for both (HT and 2 channel Stereo). Working out the kinks already for the HT. Nice. Looking forward to you getting those Neoliths in the room. |
Nice Room. I always thought Focal had a bright presentation. If that has changed, great, but excess tweeter can get digital music painful. I noticed that the Martin Logan 15 is going for nice prices lately. They would be a great tool to work with the sound of other speakers to compare the difference of electrostatic vs standard speaker drivers. Anyway, your room looks like a winner. 10ft away from seating area (what you have now) to the speakers is a different experience than 7ft to 9 ft. Maybe the Focals need the space. Don't know, I'm not there to listen. Good luck in your fun new room. Just love the Home Theater design. |
@mrdecibel I find that WCSS is in a transition. This new room with these speakers he is using has sent in the boredom. I'm personally mad as hell that he got rid of the Martin Logans. The speed of those speakers are just faster. @faxer has those other speakers GT Audioworks, and they look like winners as well. My only worry would be that 8 to 10 years from now... can you get them repaired? There are boxed speakers that do sound great, but the Neolith is really hard to beat. You would have to spend much more to get another notch above them. So I feel you pain, MrD. Things were going so good. Then the new room kind of messed things up. I think WCSS will come back with something that blows our mind. In time, my friend. |
@whitecamaross , Yes, I hear you about your projection screen being in the way of large speakers. I remember tying to nudge you towards a 75" LED TV when you were building your room. It's a tough choice between Home Theater and SOTA Stereo Sound. I myself was in business with this Home dilemma. It was about 1990 when I went to Epcot Center in Orlando and experienced the Sony Home Theater system with 75" TV and a great sound system. They just sat us way closer to the TV screen. Since that day, I never recommended a projection screen system to my clients. It was mind blowing how well the sound and visuals were compared to any projection system. I know today things are much better with projection, so it amounts to what you want more in your new room. Really, good luck starting over with your new room. |
@faxer , Thanks for the impressive response of your repair-ability of the GT Audio speaker. I do concur, that there is not much to to wrong with these type of drivers. And the strength that you are building into them is far greater than I have ever imagined. I personally like planar di-poles for the fact that you can throw a massive amount of good amplifier power into them (me Krells) and not worry that you are going to blow the drivers. I'm glad you're getting such a good response on the sound. Kudos. |