2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by mrdecibel

mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, do you feel you need a high frequency boost ?, as viber suggested, especially after your last " positioning ". All of the MLs I have heard ( many models, many times ) never seemed to be lacking in the HF area ( after proper set up, system match and optimum seated position ( distance and centered ). I find it odd that an 80K set would not be able to provide it ( given the proper amplification and everything else preceding them ). Maybe the better amps will make the difference. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, other than easier on amplifiers ( both impedance and sensitivity ), and easier to place in my room, I feel the level of transparency I am experiencing is incredible. I easily hear changes when I swap out a fuse in a component ( a big controversy here on other threads ) Some systems I listen to that is not so easy. I hear plenty of detail from my system. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC....Awesome, and no tone controls. Glad you have the juice in your walls to power the Plinius. Take your time, listen, and keep us updated ! Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Viber, I will tell you the amp I am using in a moment ( although I have not been shy about in on other threads ). I gave up on tubes a long time ago, which was a shame, because with horns, there seems to be a " magic ". Factors such as mushy bass ( ill defined and slow ), microphonics, constant biasing, tube rolling ( getting and matching good quality tubes ), noise, long warm up times, and reliability issues were a big play in my decision. Keep in mind ( as this was pointed out to me by Roger Modjeski on his fabulous thread here RamTubes, asking an engineer questions ), I likely did not have the correct amps. From the very beginning, I jumped on board with solid state. Mcintosh, Ampzilla, Son and Grandson, Marantz 15, Citation 16 ( the A version, and even the little model 12 ), Dyna 416, Robertson, Bedini, PL, SAE, Sumo, and not to mention the Japanese units. Yamaha, Luxman, Kenwood LO7s, need I continue. I was a junkie, for sure. Being in the business, I was able to get my hands on absolutely anything. And I did.  My Threshold Stasis 2, was at the time, a revelation, as was my Krell KSA 50 ( my favorite ).....It was not until I got my Krell KSA 50, that I believed SS was the real deal. Moving along to today, most of that equipment is gone, as I no longer was in the " collection " business. March of ’17 ( I am retired in Fl. at this point ), I decided, for  giggles, to purchase the Nuforce STA 200, being sold for the price of $499., with free shipping, and a 30 day return. Amp was not satisfactory with my preamp collection ( again many, a few in the 5-6 K range ).Too much gain. Hum, hiss, and very little attenuation control on the volume. But, it sounded AWESOME. This amp, through my current pr. of Lascalas ( I have been through a number of pair), had attributes, positive mind you, of every other amplifier I have ever owned, and not a single negative, except for the too much gain issue. Early this year I tried passive, and have found my Nirvana, with the Luminous. There are many amp manufacturers whose products have been through my doors not mentioned here, because honestly, it no longer matters. Speakers, do not get me started. I had them all ( while always a pair of Lascala ). You did ask what amp I am using, right ? WC is on a larger " budget " scale than my own, but in my industry, I have heard much near what he is buying. To me, no biggie. There is only so much info on a recording. My weakness in likely my Dac ( heavily modified Adcom GDA 700 ), but, really does the job for me. Gave up my Lps and tt set up recently in ’15 as it was a pita for me to get a record to spin. I was anal with the cleaning, clamping, all else....My vinyl sounded superior to me than digital, but I adjusted. Enough for now. I am thinking of writing a book on my vast audio experiences, and believe me, there have been many. I have known many big and influential people in the industry, many have passed, some still around, and, other than better parts, not too excited about some of the new stuff. I apologize to you WC, as I did not mean to use your thread for my read. Your mission is still quite enjoyable to me, but as I’ve said, I have found a sound that suits me, my music, and my listening habits. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Viber, with a violin under your chin much of your life, you obviously are " used to " certain characteristics of sound many listeners do not have experience with. That can be true with the fact of just being " on the stage " or " in the pit ", again not experienced by many. I really do not see why you PUSH the eq so much. Granted, it works for you, but in reality, it is a band aid to better sound. I appreciate the fact that to your ears only 1 violin recording needs no eq, which I find very sad, but...….Admittedly, not every recording I own is wonderful. However, they are balanced. I do not wish to change it. On the same cd ( as an example my recent listen to the Rolling Stones " Sticky Fingers ", a few songs are a bit harsh, lean, bright, etc. But on others, smoother, rounder, warmer, etc. But what I listen for, is the ability of all the RS members playing together, tightly, if you know what I mean. And this is due to the studio folks, taking the individual tracks and putting them all together. I have no need or desire to change a thing, as I easily accept the recording for what it is. The Luminous unit has made this SO MUCH CLEARER for me to hear more into the recording. Tape hiss is more abundant, when there, being to close to the mike is there. Not to mention the attack and decay of each and every movement of the musicians, and their instruments. The bass line of " Can’t You Hear Me Knock'in ", was before, a little out of place with the mix ( my subs were not quite jelling with the Lascala’s ), not quite. The elimination of any gain stage has made it tight, uniform, coherent, fast, immediate, you get my point. I though my system was excellent before. Now, unbelievable. And, as I said, my speaker / room / listening seat, although not perfect, reveals to me to hear every and all of the most minute little details in my vast library, in an unadulterated, uncolored, and honest way. WC is not ready for eq or tone controls, as he is still trying to find the best combination for his Neos, even if they have a HF roll off. Leave him alone about the EQ, at least for now, that is my professional recommendation. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
bigdesign3, I though WC listened through the Gryphon as well, making it 3 ? Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
He would love to meet BJ.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
RIAA, my best friend lives in Jersey. What would you want $ wise, to allow my friend come pick them up for me off the curb ? Believe me, they will get great use. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Although I have not heard the AR REF 10 ( I have listened to the Plinius 103, when it was introduced to the market ( unfortunately not in my system, but still sounded nice ) the Rane will likely sound " dirtier " than the REF 10, in flat mode. Why for heavens sake would you want this piece of equipment in the chain preceding 80 K Neos. The Rane is dirtier than my Luminous. Tone for detail ? You do not buy Neos for tone. You buy them for detail. A completely " open window " experience. The tone will come from the recordings. Viper, remember, you are a different type of listener than most, and that is what you are not understanding. You are listening to older recordings, recordings you say " need eq ". WC does not. Let him " hear " and experience what the Plinius is like, not to change it into something it is not. He is already familiar with the REF 10, but somehow hears things, differently, with each amp change ( in other words, it is a clear window ). I value you and appreciate you, but I totally disagree with you, and this is how it will be. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, reading your response, it is all in defense of the fact that I stated the Rane ( remember I have one, is dirtier ). Yes, ime, it is the equivalent of the line stage of a Classe 6, based on my memory, but with a little less warmth of the 6. You just feel " what viber wants, everybody should want ". Difference between you and me. You want people to duplicate you and your ideas, because let’s face, you have a god complex. Shall we take a poll ? You are forgetting the individuality of this hobby. You are still wrong, completely. Can we be done with this. BTW, I never used the words " cheap electronics ". I specifically pointed to the Rane eq. We both know how bad the input gain controls are on the Rane. Do you think WC would not hear that, and that is a reason the Rane is dirty, as we have discussed ?. If you want to continue your argument, come on over to the fuse thread. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, apology accepted. Just let the man be.....This entire thread was based on amplifier comparisons, at all price levels. To throw an eq in there, at this stage in the game, is secondary when wc is still " listening to amps ". That was my biggest point in all of this. It was not his priority or necessity. The Ref 5 se is the last AR preamp I can honestly say I have some experience with. My remembrance, which is much more recent than with the Classe 6 ( I borrowed the AR, I owned the Classe ), is that the AR is quite a few notches above the Rane, which, I assumed, not be as good as the REF 10. Anyway, we are all friends here, and I am sorry if I offended you or made you feel you are just like the rest of us here. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
RIAA.....LMAO
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
ron17....LMAO    x    2.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
RIAA.....LMAO......viber, I know it was not an apology, just some more sarcasm.....
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
ron17, again, LMAO. WC has more money than I, so I am out. Besides, I think viber should buy one and have it sent out to him ( I think I remember reading somewhere, viber stating he makes a ---- load of money ). Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
I hope viber, at some point, gets it, that he is a different kind of listener than many of us. I also would like him to understand he is no better than any of us listeners ( he has stated his isn't, but I still believe his god complex is very strong ). If I had the money, I would buy him a Luminous unit, have it sent to him, and maybe put the Rane thing to rest. Mind you, I understand it is great for him, he just pushes and pushes and pushes. I know he will respond to everybody, as he will think we are picking on him. He just needs to realize that he, as all of us, are INDIVIDUALS. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Techno_dude, I am with you on the fuses as to them making a difference, but the fact that wc has not been on the " fuse " journey yet, let him continue and find " his amp ( s ) first. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
And yes, you have " that " complex. I am sorry......
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, good to see you back again. Still with the eq ? A power cord can capture and introduce greater detail from the amp. The eq can only " change " ( your word ) the given detail that is already there. Again, we disagree, but that is ok, because hopefully, he will not show interest in the Rane, or any eq at this time. Just a few posts ago of yours yopu suggested to leave things alone and get to experience the Plinius for what it does. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, that is awesome. Under your imaging notes, you state that  " nothing gets blended between both speakers ". Can you explain this a bit more ?, because it does not sound right to me, and before I interpret it my way or the wrong way, I just need more clarification.....Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
First, I never mean anyone harm. Viber needed to understand a few things, that is all. I appreciate and enjoy everything he posts, even with the fact I disagree with some of what he says......Hope he stays around and not allow our bullying to get in his way. Concerning WC. The Plinius 103 is a current product in their line up, and has been around for several years. I feel this says something about the design. I know you, wc, will be getting those mono block amps, but if given the opportunity to cancel the order, or postpone it, would you be able to live with the Plinius, at least for a while ?..The Plinius is awesome for the money. It has so many musical characteristics, a combination of tube rounded smoothness, and the gut wrenching, detailed, fast, bandwidth extention of Class A ss. Enjoy MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, all your gibberish, although clear and understandable, says one thing that I have been saying all along. You are a unique individual, I am a unique individual, grey9hound is a unique individual, and that we all are unique individuals ( wc is learning to be a unique individual ), and that you need to STOP suggesting that everyone do as you do. We all want to help wc. Believe me when I tell you, when it comes to me, you have met your match ! It is immature, and it is godly, what you are doing. As a professional consultant for years, I never " pushed " anything on a listener or a buyer the way you do. I admire your experience both as a musician and an enthusiast, but I have to tell you that what spurs from your mouth is just too much. Let some of it go, take a deep breath, and ENJOY...…..Your passion is understood. Keep some of it to yourself. MrD. 
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, I am not alone. And when I said you have met your match, I was talking about the abilities in assembling a high end audio system. Over and out. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
@gtaphile…..LMAO
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Ron17, + 1  Thank you !  Enjoy ! MrD. 
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, I appreciate your explanation. Many recordings I listen to are not just instrumental, or electronic. Most vocalists within the recordings are dead center between the 2 speakers, imo, simulating the center stage location of the singer, whether it be Sinatra, Ella, Joan Osborne, Jagger, etc. Your post had me think there was a hole in the middle, which would have been quite profound, and making me think the phase of the speakers / amp was wrong. Anyway, it sounds like all is well, and I am still attracted to your thread as my number one read daily. I have not offered before, but I am in central Fl., and if you felt you could use my help, I am not very expensive. In fact, I can spend an entire day by you tweaking, and I will gladly accept the Plinius as the pay for my services ( this of course when you are ready to replace it, lol ). All kidding aside, we are all here to help you, and more important, enjoy with you, your journey. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
The amp selected out of the ten, get the fuse.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
Yes David Ten, Thank you for making it clear to all, but especially myself, that I suppose I am sounding a bit like viber. Someone had to do it, as you are saying it to me. I will easily back off the attitude, but I will continue my share my own knowledge. Would that be ok ? Zaks. Here is an example. I have ten amplifiers I am rotating, keeping them in my system, active, for as short term or long term, to determine if I like it. If I find an amp so so, I have no interst in a fuse. The fuse will not impact that amp "enough " to allow me to like it ( not as much as a power cord ). All I am saying. Thinking of WC here. Hell, why stop at the amplifier, and change every fuse through out his system. All I am saying. I believe in, and use upgraded fuses. Out of the winner of the Ten (amps, not David ), this the It is a final tweak in a system. Important, but comes later in a system set up. This is imo, and ime. Thank you, Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
@david_ten Wow, I certainly thought it could be. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, Awesome commentary, is what I have to say. 6 shots of tequila, and I would likely not make it to the keyboard ( unlike 30 years ago ). Just so you know, I feel like I know many of you through posting and communicating here. I have no ill feelings towards anyone ( yes viber, even you ). And the reason : This is a journey, for all of us, about achieving great sound from our systems, so we can enjoy our passionate hobby of listening to music. The diversity amongst all of us is far and wide, while at the same time, similar and near. viber,,,,nice post...….WC, I would love to hear your system. To everyone, Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, if all 4 connections on the Neo have the same wire and length going to them, I would think, both the subs and the panels, will perform better. Substantially. I obviously believe in bi wiring. A step up from that would be to passively biamp the Neos. Vertical or Horizontal. Vertical, in my experience, is superior in all sq parameters. And, works best if the amps are identical stereo or 4 identical monos. Horizontal, both amps can be different, but gain and sensitivity issues would need to be worked out. Some folks I know prefer horizontal bi amping ( you would need to listen to it both ways to determine your preference ). I know I am getting carried away, but if you like the bi wiring alot, you can get a duplicate Plinius. Looking forward to your findings with the bi wiring. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
ron17. I agree, from the flat position, attenuate, not boost. A good buddy of mine, who is a fine musician with a recording set up, does just that with his eq. I believe it keeps the noise down as well. I did try this with my Rane, and although I found it to better attenuating, I still decided on not using the eq ( as mentioned prior ). Enjoy MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
bigdesign 3, to properly execute, and get whatever benefits biwiring shows, the straps would need to be removed. Most straps are crap, anyway, at least those that come with speakers. For every one person who says biwiring is superior, there is one person who says it does nothing. Providing all four speaker cables are the same make, model and length going from the amp to the speaker, I have always heard an increase in sq. Doesn't matter if it was subtle or dramatic, because in some cases it was one or the other, but, it was apparent in listening. As I've said, I am not sure of the science, but I go with what my ears tell me. WC, I would love to hear your Neos, as they might make me a believer in electrostatic hybrids. All in due time. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, as many of us here, awaiting your reports on biwiring the Neos ( it might take more listening ), if you had a chance to reconfigure ? Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
@minorl The questions you have about biwiring is something I cannot answer, but there are many articles available on the web about the subject. You spoke about passive biamping, horizontally. I, too have been a proponent of biamping, passive biamping, both horizontal and vertical passive biamping. Vertical passive biamping does reqiure 4 of the same amp channels. I have listened and I have determined, V is better, " for me ". I am also very critical of the match between a dynamic woofer and an electrostatic panel, and how they blend. I would hope at the 80K price, this " coherence " or blend between the two in the Neo is much better. I would need to listen. Also, because of this coherence issue, using different amps for the woofs and panels ( horizontal biamping ), imo and ime, makes this coherence ( blending ) issue even greater, as you hear the differences between the amplifiers.. This is just me. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, I understand you are not directing any comments towards me, which is fine. In your last post, it seems to be, and, I am happy to see, that you have finally established yourself as a very different listener than most, and I thank you. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
@techno_dude.....What ? Do you feel biwiring is not real ? It is spoken about in the Neo's owners set up manual. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
WC, so here you have it. I believe in biwiring and techno doesn’t. Waiting for your listening experience. Either way, if you hear differences or not, it is all good with me. Some people know what to listen for, as I feel it is not about having better ears, but more experienced ears. I suppose we can include this topic to all of the voodoo snake oil that I seem to be involved in, such as power cords and fuses. WC, I will not bring it up again, unless you start talking about it, and want my input. Happy listening. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
@dasign , +1....the point of all of this is still skepticism on the part of techno_dude, or, he has not tried it, or, he tried it and could not hear it. I have read that other factors have a play in why bi wiring makes a difference. Again, all I know, since speakers have become available with multiple pairs of posts, I have heard improvements when bi wiring. If an argument of techno is  : a single, better quality speaker cable is better than an inferior set of bi wire speaker cables, I can see that argument. But you and I are talking the same language, that the 4 runs of the higher quality speaker cable, bi wiring, is superior. As you, my ears tell me the truth. Thank you, Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
The Block Audio monos might be THE AMPS. We shall see. They are en route to wc. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
bigdesign3, did you ask the Morrow designer why they went from silver coated copper to all copper ?. What I have read recently, since Morrow's beginning is, they have been wrong all of these years. I own many of their older and discontinued cables. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
bigdesign3....leaving the jumpers in defeats all concepts and benefits of bi wiring. I am sure your way has a particular sound, 4 wires and the jumpers. In fact, leaving the jumpers in, connecting a pair of cables to the panel connection ( top ),or that same pair to the woofer connection ( bottom ), the sound will change. I appreciate your deswire ( desire, did you like that ? ) to have the thickest speaker cable available.WC, did you change the 2 pairs of wires between the panels and the woofers ? Try it, as it will sound different. Between which of these 2 configurations you prefer, I feel you will continue to hear improvements in the bi wiring, because with the experience of listening, it will just become more obvious those little details. And on the level of the Neos, very obvious. With the mono’s, bi wiring will be more dramatic. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
BTW, same reason many amplifiers, such as the Plinius in use here, have double sets of speaker connections.  Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
techno, why would an 80K set of speakers by a very well established, successful and popularly liked company, make their speakers  ( and yes, we are speaking of the flagship model ) with double pairs of speaker connectors, and talk about both biamping, and " bi wiring ", in the owner's user and set up manual ? That's right. It's just you ! Have anything else to contribute on the subject ? No, so let's move on. You are being a bit troll - like. Calling it as I see it. Enjoy ! MrD. 
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
klh, I am not dissing the Mapleshade cables. I know Pierre and I use some of his blocks. Pierre has an excellent reputation, ears and is a very experienced listener. I tried his cables and although very detailed, I felt they were a bit light in weight ( less meat on the bones ), again, imo, and in my system. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
It is interesting that Mapleshade lists their speaker cable for a maximum of 16 ft runs. I will never debate why someone likes something over another ( in audio ), if in fact they have tried it every which way. It easily shows how different we all are as listeners. But for me, I prefer 12 gauge or equivalent. Enjoy ! MrD.

mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
I have never spent much on speaker cables,  as I have on ics and pcs. After trying many higher end speaker cables in my system, I never felt it was worth the additional monies to what I could buy, by the foot / meter and make myself. viber, the term zip has a specific meaning ( look it up on Wikipedia ), and it does come in heavier gauge such as 14, 12 and 10 gauge. My table and floor lamps are wired with zip cord, although, what if I changed to a 12 gauge size, do you think the lamp bulbs will become brighter ? Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
viber, I am currently running 4 x 14 gauge in wall / direct burial CL2 rated cable per speaker run, at 20 ft each side. I bought it from a supplier years back. Pure copper, many strands, nice jacket, and lowers my gauge, as I am doubling up. Sounds wonderful to me. Techno, imo, buyers / users of the Neos will likely bi wire, and then, ultimately, biamp. Those straps are coming out. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
techno, obviously WC does, and most of us are 100 % behind him. What is your problem ? My system reacts to every major and minor tweak. Maybe, you do not understand very high end audio, is my guess. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,104 posts
 
techno, although I do not agree with everything viber speaks, I do not see him and you on the same side of things at all. You are all by yourself, as I see it, and personally, do not understand your criticisms and attitudes about anything you have said. Spending big money on equipment does not make one an expert, as you have proven. I have little respect for you when it comes to high end audio, after your last several posts. I have respect for viber. Wake up buddy ! Enjoy! MrD.
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