We run our stereo / theater system - optimized for stereo. Yes, home theater is slightly compromised but not our stereo.
It took a bit of planning and quite a bit of experimenting to optimize our stereo set up.
Speakers not in use acting like passive radiators - makes a good case in theory and sounds reasonable but emperacle / actual use demonstrates otherwise.
System set up and room acoustics are critical to get the best performance from a quality components. |
Whitecamaross - regarding your in-wall speaker sound transmission to the adjacent room issue, you can remove the in-wall speaker and stuff rock wool soundproof insulation behind / below / above - and then re-install your in-wall speakers. Make sure to leave no air gaps.
Rock wool soundproof insulation should dramatically reduce the sound transmitted to the adjacent room. Not sure how it will affect the in-wall speaker's performance though (by reducing the volume the back of the in-wall speaker sees).
Home Depot sells Rock Wool insulation - cuts with a sharp smooth edge kitchen knife and doesn't itch. Much easier to work with then fiberglass.
Hope this helps :-) |
When I make a high end
audiophile
purchase, it's an investment - we keep our audiophile products / investments for a long time.
All the products I purchase are from well established companies whose products provide excellent performance at a reasonable price (at least reasonable to me), are reliable, has many established dealers and provide excellent customer service.
Sonic Frontiers, Melos, Threshold, California Audio Labs (last 2 both back in business I believe), B&K, etc are just a few companies that I can remember (without much thought) that went out of business. Regarding Merrill pricing - and I haven't been keeping up on current events - but if I'm not mistaken, Merrill is a 1 man company. At least it was when he invited himself to my house to demo his amplifiers (I politely declined).
Without trying to sound disrespectful in anyway - I'm not interested in Merrill because, if something happens to that individual - the value of Merrill products could change drastically. There's also product service to consider.
To be fair - this was earlier when Merrill products were newer, however I still believe the company is a 1 (or 2?) person company.
Also - whitecamaross - would you rate and describe the qualities of the top tier amplifiers you like? I'm interested in how you feel about them.
Thanks for sharing :-) |
So is whitecamaross under water?
No activity since Dorian hit - hope he's ok. |
Guys - whitecamaross is done with lesser amps - so if he's trying tubes, think of the best "big boys" from Audio Research, VTL or the like. |
I second the Pass XS-300's ! ! ! !
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Not sure if I missed something, but unless I'm mistaken - Wilson speakers only have 1 set of speaker wire posts - at least all of mine did / do.
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I try to assemble a system that recreates the illusion of a live performance. Earlier in this thread, I became aware this isn't everyone's goal. Whitecamaross and many contributors stated their own preferences - and that's fine, our systems allow us to enjoy our music the way we want.
Occasionally, I gain great value and insight from whitecamaross and others sharing their experiences. This just happened, which prompted me to contribute.
There are many variables involved when striving to recreate the illusion of a live performance - the listening room acoustics and the quality of the recording are 2 examples.
There are times though when equipment unquestionably presents things more realistically (like when applause is
imaged very clearly and distinctly as being in front of the performance instead of being background haze).
A system like this conveys music precisely as it was performed and recorded. Software (the recording) becomes critical. Most rock music is no longer engaging when replayed on our stereo, we prefer to listen to well recorded acoustic performances; contemporary jazz, solo artists with bands and orchestra music too - again, all recorded well that allows one to experience the venue in which the performance occurred.
While others may enjoy equipment that allows music that isn't recorded as well to be portrayed in a more enjoyable way (sweetness per whitecamaross), we prefer our system to have the highest fidelity possible - because when great performances (that are recorded very well) are listened to, they're an exceptional experience.
Recently, whitecamaross described what I experienced with Wilson speakers - they convey different acoustics of equipment / performance / recording / venue very well. And kstaken very well compared the Luxman and Benchmark equipment. I've always wondered what the Luxman sounded like and now, with this comparison - I have a good insight (minus the expense of the experience). And I have the insight with the Benchmark equipment as well so thank you kstaken!
Humbly, I would also like to share a few of my own requests and findings.
First - whenever we're evaluating something, our system must be at a performance level that will easily and clearly allow the change to heard / noticed / observed. Yes, whitecamaross's system is that and more, but it's amazing how many people state cables make no difference. Everyone who listened to our system easily identified the different sound (when cables were switched blindly) and which way sounded more realistic.
Second - when we make a change, it should be only with a single component in a system, and with music we're intimately familiar with (and again with well recorded music). This way, we can specifically identify what difference that change made. Sometimes whitecamaross makes multiple changes that makes acutely identifying a components' sound more difficult (and I realize this is done to obtain a desired result).
Finally - I compared Pass XA-200.5 with the Momentum monos in a system I was familiar with, with my own music - and I recognized the differences. The Momentum amp's had better bass but were dryer. By this I mean the didn't convey the acoustic performance as naturally. While I'm an engineer by profession - I won't begin to pretend to quantify what was occuring (or wasn't occuring) that made the presentation slightly less real but it was easily noticed.
Thank you once again whitecamaross and all those who contribute. I hope this thread provides each other with shared experiences we all gain from - I know it does for me :-).
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. It's the best time of the year!
Safe, healthy and Happy Holidays to all :-) |
maplegrove - did you ever consider the consequences if what you stated was true?
If what you're inferring is that the experiences whitecamaross shares on this forum are done to exploit sales, eventually someone who made a purchase of a reviewed piece would identify the actual performance of the gear to be different from what was written in this forum and post about it.
At just over 3 years, has this ever happened? It has not. whitecamaross is pretty fair and accurate with his evaluations. He has repeatedly stated he is not bias. Because of his honesty, products are identified ethically - independent of whatever dealer relationships may or may not exist. These relationships only dictate what gear will be available - not the integrity of his evaluations.
Now that doesn't mean we all have the same goals. Conversely - we have our own goals with our gear to enjoy music. The insight we gain is valuable - retailers with brick and mortar stores are scarese and (my) time is limited.
And just for the record - I have no affiliation with whitecamaross other than this forum.
riaa award collectors on facebook - I admire your encouragement and the fact that you were able to retire at 40! Thanks for sharing, you've given me more motivation to continue to work my plan and chase my dreams!
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Gentlemen - I have a few things to say.
1 - whitecamaross stated repeatedly that he buys at reasonable prices so when he sells, he's not losing money in the buying / selling process. This is just being financially prudent.
2 - many times he explains that he can or cannot try something because he doesn't have the opportunity to purchase it at a very reasonable price.
3 - I commend him for doing this, don't we all try and get the best deal / value when investing in our equipment? Independent if it's new or used - I do.
I remember when I was a new audiophile, I purchased a new Audio Research preamp and went to trade it in for an upgrade less than 6 months later and being offered 50% of what I paid for it (from the same dealer). I politely told my personal sales associate you've either made me pay too much for the purchase or your not offering me what the equipment is worth if I'm losing 50% of the value in less than 6 months. Either way, I won't continue to invest in this commodity. I left the store quite upset and professionally made sure the store knew it. The store owner later contacted me and offered to work things out with me.
4 - if a person buys and sells equipment regularly, they establish relationships and network themselves within the audio community. These relationships allow them opportunities an infrequent purchaser wouldn't be offered. I personally experienced this with the same dealer I just referenced when I was more active and it's how I purchased our first pair of Wilson speakers.
5 - whitecamaross himself explained to me that he gets deals (when we spoke on the phone) when he wanted to purchase my Pass XA-200.5's in trade plus money for his Pass XS-150's. He made me a VERY fair offer and the only reason I didn't do the deal is because I want a pair of XS-300's. This was before I knew of this thread. And, btw - I'm now vindicated about the XS-300's!
6 - I could NEVER afford to evaluate all this equipment if I was experiencing significant loss on each piece. Long ago, I recognize, accept and actually hope he makes a profit on moving this much equipment. If he doesn't - the thread won't continue. And if it did continue, it will be limited.
So before anyone has a problem with anything, take an overview of what's happening. This is a win / win scienero with no one is getting hurt. Everything should be so. We the readers are getting insight to equipment most of use wouldn't get the insight of and we get to share / exchange our experiences. We all benefit.
maplegrovemusic - I've admired your contributions in other posts, you obviously have experience and knowledge that you've shared. To people who didn't understand things audio, you've explained the few things (that I read) well. I'm sure your experiences would help others, so if future posts are possible - keep it constructive.
I may be taking things too series, so like the Budweiser commercial - Dilly Dilly! |
Merry Christmas everyone :-)
THE BEST TIME OF THE YEAR ! ! ! !
Safe, healthy, prosperous and Happy New Year to all . . .
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Any thoughts on the
Lampizator vs Boulder preamplifiers?
We realize both weren't present at the same time but any comparisons you can make would be insightful. |
whitecamaross - would a pair of Pass XA-200.5's be enough for the Alexia I's?
It seems like I continue to sabotage myself by getting other components first. Most recent acquisitions include 2 power conditioners and a pair of interconnects - before that it was upgrading our Meridian 800 series digital front end components. I find myself with opportunities too good to pass up - and I don't!
But I've been wanting to get a pair of Alexia I's.
I'm just not able at this time to upgrade our amp's if they don't have enough juice.
PS - I would really appreciate your feedback on the best pre-amp's you've had, specifically the Boulder, the Lampizator and the Audio Research Ref 10. |
Use a credit card to pay for merchandise - ESPECIALLY if using PayPal.
If you use your bank account to fund PayPal for a purchase, you are relying on PayPal to support you. My personal experience was not good. Thankfully nothing close to the figures whitecamaross stated.
The next unpleasant experiences I had (eBay) - my credit card refunded the purchase price for none delivery and for an item not properly functioning once it was tested (after delivery).
NOTHING provides buyer protection like your major credit card.
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I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest - but are we really trying to evaluate the differences of + $50k amplifiers using our computers over the internet?
I recently listened to Momentum amplifiers on Alexia II's (at Entertainment Technologies in Mount Kisco, NY), and just previously listened to Alexia II's with Naim amplifiers (at Innovative Audio / Video in NYC). Couldn't begin to tell you the experience listening on a computer, especially over the internet.
Similar to viewing Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel using dirty glasses in poor light - and I'm not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to use the comparisons so often used by whitecamaross and others. |
I have to agree with minorl. And I’d like to add a few things.
When I began investing in equipment, I spent a LOT of time at my audio retailer. I mean I spent a LOT of time.
I listened in their room, I brought home equipment to try and I purchased based on my own direct experience and my retailer’s guidance after listening to a LOT of equipment playing a lot of music.
My audio dealer introduced me to and educated me in high end audio, and they also introduced me to a lot of very cool, great music. Later, they also introduced me to home theater. It’s unlikely I’d be an audiophile today if not for the assistance, care and education I received from my high end audio retailer - I will forever be indebted to them for some of the best music and culture - thanks guys!
Their high end room was the BEST room I’ve ever heard - and sadly, nothing I’ve ever heard (including my own room) doesn’t come close - by a wide margin. Part of that has to do with the current owner, who has the ability to set up equipment better than I heard anyone else do, again by a wide margin.
I purchased a piece once without first hearing it (not from my audio high end retailer) - and I will NEVER do that again. While the piece was very good, I wanted better and I immediately stepped up to the top grade. Had I listened to it prior to buying, I would have saved myself the time and expense.
Now that I’m very experienced, I know many things from my experience and I also know what I want. Ironically - not everyone wants the same things from their system. I want a system that has the highest fidelity possible to recreate as close to the live performance as possible. Software (the recording) is critical at this level of equipment performance - yet, when everything "clicks" - it’s an unmatched experience.
Whitecamaross describes that he like sweetness in a system - and stated sweetness is (if I understand him correctly) for a system to replay music that was not recorded critically well and still enjoy it - as opposed to another system that exposes the weaknesses of that recording. With the absolute utmost respect, I desire the system that exploits everything - because again, when everything clicks - it’s an unmatched experience. And while I don’t have the equipment whitecamaross has, I’m not that far from it (stating equipment level to clarify things)
Reviews are a person’s opinion. The reviewer’s objective needs to be identified. The types of music the reviewer likes / is intimate with and the quality of the performance and the recording needs to be revealed. The level of the equipment and room acoustics should be included - this is critical! (many people state power cords don’t make a difference because their system can’t identify the difference).
Another issue I have (which may not be common) is the reviewer’s audio system (actually - I feel all audio systems) should be extremely neutral and the item to be reviewed inserted into that system that the reviewer is intimate with and only that one item switched. The performance of the item then needs to be described very well with references and examples to clearly describe aspects of desirable / undesirable performance - to minimize the potential for misunderstanding.
Everyone agrees switching around components for synergy needs to be done - for good system matching. But say - inserting a "warm" cable to compensate for another component’s, say - "hardness" will never result in the highest fidelity system that brings the absolute best out of recordings.
Just my 2 cents - didn’t post this to incite controversy, but to contribute what I like.
Thank you whitecamaross for all your postings - they’re always a good read. I’m also starting with your videos too. Now that I no longer get the time to check out the latest and greatest equipment at my retailer - this allows me to keep up on some things. And the level of equipment you’re evaluating is exactly what interests me. |
whitecamaross - could you make any comparisons between the Pass XS-300 and the Constellation Taurus amplifiers?
I'm curious to get your feedback on how these 2 mega amplifiers are similar and how they are different. |
Guys - even if NOTHING ever came back to you (from helping someone), wouldn't you want to leave a person / people better off for having met you? Or - would you rather watch them struggle or worse, experience hardship?
Our world is what we make it. . . .
I'm not saying you have to be "Mother Teresa" and devote your life to helping others - but I am saying it's a better life when you help others. And it's not always easy to do - that's life. Shouldn't that be the example we set for our children?
And who cares what relationships whitecamaross has? Didn't we go through this before?
He stated he'd evaluate equipment - take that in the context it's given and use that information accordingly. There's no downside for anyone.
I was disappointed to see the XS-300 and Alexia's go (both what I want to get) but now he's moved on and will make other comparisons. Where's the downside of that for us?
Do you expect anyone to do this without profit? That's a bit naive and foolish - how could anyone afford to continue to change equipment without making a profit? Ultimately, it would be way too expensive to continue (at least for any sane individual).
Has anyone considered the amount of time and work involved? I don't have enough time in my day to listen to music as I'd like. Changing / configuring / repairing my own equipment is a difficult for me because of my schedule. The convenience of listening to music on our system is a major positive for having and enjoying it - it fits my limited time lifestyle - it decompresses me after a long day.
I'd like to see this continue. What would happen if whitecamaross gets upset with negative responses and stops sharing on this thread?
Whitecamaross - when making comparisons to the XS-300 and the
Constellation Taurus amplifiers, would you also include the Block Audio amplifiers? We're looking for you to evaluate and compare the best amplifiers you've owned up to this point.
Everyone - have a GREAT DAY :-) |
whitecamaross - when you get time, would you compare the best amplifiers you owned?
The Pass XS-300, The Constellation Taurus and The Block Audio - maybe others?
I realize you're heading to a show - maybe when you return?
I'm really interested in this comparison and would be very grateful to gain any insight you'd share.
Hope you have a safe, enjoyable trip :-) |
Thanks for that summary - much appreciated :-)
When you get back, and if I'm not pushing my luck, could you do that with the top speakers you've owned?
We've invested in Wilson and I'd like to get your review of the Focals and the Martin Logans. I heard both a long time ago and was VERY impressed with the ML's.
Hope you have a safe, enjoyable trip. Best to you - TJF
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witecamaross - I realize this is a change in direction, but I'd like your thoughts on how the Alexia I compares to the Alexia II. |
Jay - I asked before but you didn't answer, and since speakers are the topic again I'll ask you to share your experience:
How does the Alexia I's compare to the Alexia II's? |
Jay - that was exactly the experience / feedback I was looking for. Kudos to you and keep up the good journey my friend :-) |
Now - that's what I'm talking about!
Everyone enjoys music with their system - we all have different system aspects that attract and irritate us.
But - we all enjoy music.
How about we overlook each other's faults (I have MANY) and work together to help keep Jay's journey going strong?
Not too much to ask I would think?
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Jay - respectfully, the efficiency of speakers hasn't impacted the performance of our DAC straight to our amplifiers. We've run high efficiency Wilson and much lower efficiency EgglestonWorks and our DAC (Meridian 861v8, Pass XA-200.5's) just plain works.
While the room certainly plays it's part, I think in this case - the components have a much greater influence on the necessity of a great pre-amp.
Just my experience. I'm confident I speak for many when I say "we're enjoying all you do." |
speedbump6 - I teach motorcycle track riding and enjoy target shooting, though I haven’t done either in quite a while (due to a crazy, excessive - stupid work schedule).
Very true about purpose built machines and / or equipment.
Those 2 hobbies require much more preparation and time to enjoy (not to detract from them) - one of the things I enjoy about music is there's hardly any preparation (I leave our system completely - though it's not operating now). |
I for one don't have the time to read and post on most of the audiogon threads. Do I post on others occasionally - yes, but it's an exception and not the norm.
I follow this thread because of the insights shared. Long ago, many brick and mortar stores closed (at least the ones I shopped at) - now we need to share experiences to gain understanding and insights of equipment.
I don't agree with everything Jay does, but I respect him for all he does. We all have different values, we can all respect each other for their own values while still gaining the experience we otherwise would never be exposed to.
Could anyone of us imagine doing what Jay does? Let's be honest. I certainly can't - I have way too much going on and not enough hours in a day.
Even if we could do what Jay does - why attack him? Will anything positive come of it? How about taking a step back and viewing things from a long term perspective? No one will agree with everything. But does that mean we won't benefit from Jay and others sharing?
Even though I don't always agree with the analogies - can't we choose what we like and leave the rest (what we don't like) - kind of like ordering at a restaurant? We can "order a - la - carte" and select what we like.
Or - we can attack each other and pick each other apart, or (as I've stated before) urinate on each other. Result - we'll all have urine on us.
How about benefiting when we can and respectfully disagree when we don't.
And - lets realize, all this costs none of us anything!
It really shouldn't be that hard, so let's stop the attacks and, if you really feel strongly - then constructively / nicely say that's not what you experienced.
There are many things I question, but instead of attacking Jay - I would like to experience Jay's system with music I'm intimate with and see for myself. For the record, I respect ALL THAT JAY DOES even though I don't agree with it all. Remember all the work involved in what Jay does - I DON'T SEE ANYONE OFFERING TO HELP HIM WITH THE WORK.
If we try really hard, maybe - just maybe we won't cause the thread to be closed / shut down again. Last time, I wrote the moderators and requested the thread be re-instated based on the merits - the value, insight and experience it provides and shares. More than any other thread on Audiogon!
Enough with the attacks. It degrades this discussion and limits our ability to exchange experiences.
And - I'm really eager to see what the heck this guy is going to do next! I just don't see how the heck he'll top what he's done! But - I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he will! |
I will say the next big thing is a pair of Alexx speakers!
I said it first, you heard it from me and I'm sticking with my story!
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Well stated sppedbump6 - the point of the Focals being much more expensive than the Wilsons didn’t seem to be taken into consideration. I would expect the much more expensive Focals to outclass the significantly less Wilsons. If that wasn’t the case - that’s a significant exception.
And why are we bickering about what’s better. Let Jay spend time with these Focals and he’ll summarize his experiences, that’s what he’s always done in the past.
Also - addressing what Jay stated earlier about being honest when evaluating products. Being brutally honest doesn’t mean you have to disparage another company and / or product. Doing so isn’t professional and no one would want work with you. Also, realize there are people working hard on that project.
Stated another way - if world class runners ran a race, would coarsely criticizing the losers be constructive? It wouldn’t, rather it would demonstrate the unprofessionalism of the commentator.
Why do we repeatedly have to revert to such tactics?
How about enjoying the experiences Jay shares with everyone and if we disagree, you can state that constructively (or not) and move on.
Scary - how self-destructive human nature is. |
keithr1 - would REALLY like your opinion on what you heard. What did you like best and why? Were you surprised? Disappointed? Amazed?
You can't just make statements like that and leave us hanging!!!!!
Please do share your experience, thoughts and perspective.
Thanks in advance :-) |
Wow - now that was something special!
I have to admit, I was never one for the analogies. They just didn't compare well (for me). But kren0006 just brought the house down!
Still true that point for point the analogy doesn't directly mesh directly with performance - but man do you get the vibe and character of what's being communicated / conveyed!
I re-read it twice because it was so good and I'm still impressed!
Well done kren0006 - well done! |
A Safe, Healthy and Happy Thanksgiving to all.
George Washington initiated this holiday - to give thanks to God for all our blessings - but it officially became a holiday when Abe Lincoln made it so. Ironically, when President Lincoln made T-day official - it was in a period of the civil war which was a very bleak time in our country's history. |
I believe another consideration was listening volume when considering using a preamplifier |
Years ago, I volunteered my time (wrenching) and cash to help a fledging top fuel funny car driver make his dream come true.
Unless you’ve experienced a top fuel (nitro-methane burning) funny car / dragster at a national race (not an exhibition) you have NO IDEA what this is about.
The ground shakes when these cars leave the line / start their quarter mile race. No ear plugs means you’d damage your hearing over the weekend. The exhaust can be lethal from as far as 50 feet from the car! (Meaning it could blow you off your feet with force to kill you)
When I was involved, these engines made 6,000 + HP ! ! ! !
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Actually - I prayed (literally) for the driver to be safe every time the car ran down the quarter mile.
It’s a controlled explosion and many times it’s not controlled. With so much power in such a short period of time, bad things happen quickly when not in total control.
Without graduated experience, I "regular" driver could not drive / steer a top fuel quarter mile car. The driver experiences positive 3 G’s when leaving the start line and negative 4 G’s at the end of the quarter mile when the brakes and parachute are used. Some drivers had to retire due to a detached retina from the negative 4 G’s.
The driver I helped had blurred vision for a week because of tire shake - he couldn’t get out of it (stop it) soon enough.
In a Funny Car, the driver sits and is strapped in immediately behind the engine with their feet on each side of the clutch (called a scatter shield because this housing is so thick to stop the clutch from exploding and killing the driver), literally on top of the rear end and in between the 2 wide rear tires. Anything bad happens and and there’s no where to go to avoid it.
Fire suits and full fire suppression systems are used and are critical for safety.
I teach motorcycle paved track riding - some people think what I do it crazy (full leather suit & knee on the pavement). I would NEVER want to drive a nitro methane car - NEVER, EVER, NEVER, NEVER!
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I have to admit, I didn't think I'd be interested in lesser speakers - but the Tekton is a speaker I was curious about.
I wouldn't buy them to try them but I would like to hear them to learn / understand how they sound. Whitecamaross is the next best thing :-) |
I thought that was a joke - because you change equipment so much.
No offense intended, just stating what I thought the author meant. |
Gentlemen - we all contribute to Jay’s thread. That doesn’t mean we all agree.
But what we should all agree to do is respect each other. There’s a lot of things I can elaborate on - but I haven’t because I didn’t want to seam disrespectful. The attacks on each other? I’ve said before we’ll all have urine on us if we keep urinating on each other.
All during Christmas?
I mean - how awesome is Jay’s system? Can’t we pick what we like and respectfully put aside what we don’t? It doesn’t mean we can’t say we disagree - but how about whatever is said, that it’s said nicely?
Am I really saying this? Jay has what I would refer to as a top 1% system and we attack each other? Really?
How about, WE TREAT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT and one day we can try and do a Zoom meeting together? Or better yet, start our own organization - we could call it "The Jay Club"! I mean, we’re unlimited in the things we can do if we give this a positive, healthy perspective.
HOW ABOUT STOP URINATING ON EACH OTHER?
Now - for something I was going to say earlier but didn’t. I’m bringing it up because I want everyone to know I speak / type the truth and because I hope Jay (and everyone else) is aware of this aspect of the dealer / client relationship.
I represent cables - if you remember, I said I hope one day to visit and share with Jay the best cables I found and see how they compare to the best cables he’s found (and at the rate I’m working - I’ll be dead before I get a moment to myself).
I said this because 1 - Jay sometimes has different objectives / goals then I do (maybe that has changed since he’s obtained some of the best equipment available). I strive for the highest fidelity, which makes bad recordings sound terrible. But - it also makes great recording unmatched in the listening experience. In the past, Jay referenced sweetness as a desirable trait, and 2 - because when dealers hand out equipment to clients to try, they usually have no control over the system it’s installed in and how it’s evaluated. In only a few instances I’ve found a system that had very high quality equipment and was optimally set up with proper room acoustics and well recorded music was played to clearly evaluate and demonstrate differences between components. Also, only changing a single component at a time is necessary to determine differences. There’s other things I’m leaving out here (to be brief) but I hope everyone is getting what I’m trying to communicate.
Even in a 1% system like Jay’s, and with the upmost respect, humility and admiration for both Jay, his equipment and his system - I wouldn’t just hand over something and say have at it. Experience has burned me 98% of the time I’ve done this in the past. Literally (unfortunately).
And Jay, please don’t take this in any way as negative - you really are a top 1 percent audiophile, I know myself and most of us (with a few exceptions) can only dream about the equipment you rotate!
We all appreciate what you do and I’ve supported you many times in the past and will continue to do so. Your forum is EXCELLENT and thank you for all your contributions :-)
Just my "little fish in a very big pond / ocean" input :-)
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Everyone's efforts to be nicer are obvious and it makes this thread much more enjoyable.
I'm no expert on music, viber has a lot of experience playing and listening to music - so when I read his comments I try to understand his experiences.
I'll never forget listening to a live natural acoustic band in a large, hard surfaced area (a commercial atrium with hard granite / reflective walls and floors, windows all over with a ceiling that was 4 stories high) about 15 feet away. Super detailed but what I would describe as hard. It was an awesome experience right up until the drummer hit the cymbals really hard. It hurt my ears - a LOT! It didn't make them ring but it was very uncomfortable. I cringed from the pain.
Who would have thought? Not me - that's for sure.
I'm not justifying saying a $20k or $30k system could compete with a half a million dollar plus system. But I am saying there's something he's experienced with live music that he likes and recognizes. It may even be something(s) that many of the rest of us haven't.
Please don't criticize me, I'm not trying to defend or support anyone or anything. All I'm trying to say is he's got a lot of experience playing orchestra music and / or close proximity listening to orchestra music and he's trying to share his experiences. I try to respect and understand his perspective. |
Jay - it doesn't matter what commodity you're in, some people have unreasonable expectations.
One of our companies offers comprehensive property management services for waterfront estates. One point I learned to establish with new clients is all services are billed. People would attempt to request additional services and request they be included without additional cost for a multitude of reasons.
I've since referred and transferred such clients to other property managers siting they're a better match - frankly because I don't want to work with such individuals. It's a principle of respect.
This one company we have provides "turn key service" with clients who have been with us for more than 20 years, with whom we've built very strong relationships.
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Jay - curious, where does the Pass XS-300 fit in this ranking order? |
Is a consideration of the Transparent the cost of termination? Are their power cords "configured" for each component and if so, will re-terminating them be significant? Are their power cords are similar to their interconnects and speaker cables in this regard? |
First time I'm going to comment on what I heard (because I listen through a TV used as a monitor on my computer). I was told by a respected individual that a difference could be heard. There are certain aspects that cannot be considered - imagining is a critical one.
That said, the first presentation seemed to have much more air, articulation and presence. Sibilance seemed to be a little more pronounced as well.
Still - I'm uncertain if listening over the internet is valid.
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My guess is the Pass XS-300 returns . . . . |
Gentlemen - earlier in this forum (when the Monte's were Jay's main speakers I believe?) the discussion of sub's came up.
I shared my experience when I listened to a pair of lower tier Martin Login speakers with and without a single well setup / integrated Rel sub-woofer. I was floored by the difference. The entire spectrum of music became fuller, the imagining went from thin to full and lifelike, the entire dimension of the music transitioned from portrait to fully dimensional!
I know this sounds extreme - I'd never have thought this could happen with the addition of a sub-woofer but it was an experience I'll never forget.
I also read about a similar experience (Stereophile or Absolute Sound?) with a super tweeter (a smaller square box - Mylar film if I remember correctly, placed on top of a speaker) that added the same type of completeness to the music spectrum.
This experience demonstrates the over and undertone harmonics are a critical part of musical spectrum. |
That’s your opinion which you’re entitled to. Like I stated in my post, I use both naturally performed acoustic performances (performed in different venues) and single instruments played unamplified in our listening room as a reference. And, of course the performance environment will have a signature character for that recording.
Also true - variables in the recording chain make a difference. Experience shows better quality recordings sound very very similar to real music. Much more so than different.
But stating music cannot be reproduced to sound convincingly like it’s live performance? It’s apparent what you state is theory - you haven’t tried listening to live music in your room. Granted, the prerequisites require a very high fidelity (not necessarily very expensive - ours is ~ $250k) system and a well designed and acoustically treated room. If you did you’d know empirical / actual results.
Still disagree?
You’re welcome to visit my home and listen for yourself. I live in the central NJ area. Bring your own music if you like. Wire too for that matter. Just agree to post here your experiences. Everyone who’s visited easily identified differences when wires were changed. This includes MIT Oracle MAX-SHD speaker cable (retailed for $50k) and MIT Oracle MAX-2 balanced interconnect (we’re not considering low end merchandise). I use these for demonstration comparison.
The few dozen people I’ve shared with came away with a completely different perspective.
But like I’ve stated before in this forum, I’ve given up on trying to share knowledge with individuals. Instead of being a forum where individuals can share experiences and learn from each other, it becomes a "you’re wrong and I’m right" urinating match.
Still not convinced? The editor at Stereophile who has recorded countless audiophile recordings (I forget his name) who reviewed and claimed the Pass XA-60.5’s were the best amplifier he heard at that time because they sounded most realistic. And in that review he confirmed other amplifiers had more realistic bass. Maybe he got it wrong? Pass paid him off - yes, that must be it. Or any one of countless other conspiracy theories.
You can be fine with whatever sound you like (and Jay, I respect what you describe and have defended your position in the past). But goodsource, that doesn’t mean your conjecture is accurate / real.
You know what - you’re 100% right and I’m 100% wrong. Let’s leave it at that. Really - it’s just not worth the time or effort.
Jay - forgive me. I didn’t mean to cause a disagreement in your thread. You have an entertaining and revealing thread and I sincerely wish you the best with it continuing as such. |
grey9hound - I wasn't going to continue within this forum, but the good nature of the people involved compelled me to respond :-).
I agree that large hall venues usually provide poor acoustics - at least that's my (unfortunate) experience. Heck - the best acoustics of an orchestral concert I attended was merely fair (NJPAC) and how I was so disappointed when I attended for the first time (and took our oldest son too) our local Count Basie Center (in Red Bank, NJ). Terrible acoustic - ugg!
Smaller, naturally performed acoustic venues are much nicer - restaurants, bars, etc. Yes - I know - sounds real classy (not!) but this is what I found sounds best (honest). Contemporary Jazz is my favorite - especially with good bands.
I respect that we all want something different - I strive to recreate the music as it was performed within it's venue. When accomplished (with exceptional recordings) - the experience is unmatched.
Thanks guys for your responses. |
