2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by ricred1

ricred1
2,068 posts
 
I have talked to WC several times and respect his opinions. To say, " hey well know some more expensive products performs no better than some less expensive ones", is just silly. What we will know is WC’s opinion about the component in his system/room. I submit Charles has already said it the best, " Interesting for sure but by no means absolute. Nor does WC claim to be absolute."
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
Cables are system dependent. What works well in one system, may not work well in another. Depending on the listeners perspective, Wireworld world cables can be considered "neutral" or lacking detail in the highs. I've had Wireworld Platinum cables in my system and prefer other cables to them.  
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
In general, not in every case, based on your experience do you believe the larger part of a budget should be put into speakers?
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
People commenting on components they've never heard is one of the largest problems on Audiogon. It's a disservice to the manufacturers and audiogon members. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
viber6,

"I read on another thread that you like the ATI 523.  This uses a Hypex 500 module.  Could you elaborate further on the tonal characteristics/accuracy, etc.?"

I only use the ATI 523 to drive my center and rear speakers whenever I'm using my projector. So, I'm not doing critical listening with it; therefore I can't comment on tonal characteristics/accuracy. What I can say is the ATI 523 drives my center and rears speakers much better that the receiver it replaced.  
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,

" That said, i have been told that it is NEVER EVER a good thing to mix solid state with class d amps. For example, to have class a amps running your front left and front right speakers and then a class d amp running the rest of your speakers. I heard the timing is different and class d are much faster sounding."

I currently use a Class AB amp(Jeff Rowland 625 S2) to drive my fronts and a Class D amplifier(ATI AT523NC) to drive my center and rears without any problems.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
gtaphile,

" the importance of selecting/auditioning new components that have synergy with the rest of your system as well that the audition include a selection of corresponding high quality cables." 

It took me a long time to get to that point and understand "we" put too much emphasis on individual components. Ultimately the sound is a combination of all of the components in the system; therefore a "preamp", "speaker", or any other component can be preferred in one system and not another. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
This constant drumming of "expensive mediocre components" and unscrupulous dealers is getting old. There are great dealers across the country and great components at every price point! I say that, because I choose to attend shows, audition components in my system, listen in dealer's showrooms, and listen at my friend's house. Personal opinion regarding amps is differences are greater when driving difficult speakers. So sure, most amps sound great on relatively easy loads. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
Cables,  including power cords are system dependent. I've owned Wireworld Platinum power cords, auditioned several others in my system,  including Shunyata Sigma NR. When you get around to power cords I suggest trying a Audioquest Hurricane. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
ron17,

"It pays to have a pro (especially with speakers) help with set-up." I couldn't agree more. When I owned Wilson Audio speakers it was great to have a dealer set them up. I live in the San Antonio,  TX and would pay money to have a dealer setup my Monitor Audio PL500 II speakers. Does anyone know a dealer in my local area that would setup my speakers? If so, please send me a PM.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
I submit hearing a speaker and owning a speaker are two totally different animals. I could be wrong, but viber6 you appear to make comments about speakers you’ve never owned and in some cases you may not have ever listened to? Everyone has different opinions about what sounds good. There are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. Why can’t some talk about what they prefer without demeaning what others prefer? What I respect about WC the most is he’s letting his ears decide what he likes based on listening. No matter what we think, WC’s ears have the final say so.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
I believe everything is about system matching, but the best amplifier I've ever heard by far is the Absolare 845 mono-amps. They have a very detailed, rich, and natural sound quality unlike anything I've ever heard. At 52W I just don't think they have enough current for your speakers. My wife and I listened to the Absolare again today compared to an Esoteric amp and my wife just can't stop talking about how great the Absolare sounds.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
bill,
The Absolare was driving Raidho speakers. In the past week I've listened to Martin Logan CLXs, Raidhos, and Dynaudio speakers and several amps. I have no interest in changing anything I have. I'll continue to listen to different components as a means to educate myself on how some components sound.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
There really isn't much difference between a reviewer and anyone else. Both are just providing their opinions. One could argue that they trust the opinions of the "average" person over reviewers. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
I submit it's a reminder that we're putting a "system" together. We need to find components that work well together to get the sound we prefer. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,

"I actually remember hearing this same ref10 with a boulder 2060 and some expensive rockports speakers and the ref10 sounded awful with that combo." This is where we disagree...you can’t isolate the preamp. I submit it’s more appropriate to say, that "system combination" didn't sound good.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
viber6,

Of course it's a matter of compatibility...in my opinion that's what this hobby is all about. We are trying to assemble a system based on all of the variables that we prefer. It isn't just about how one component sounds, be it warm or bright, but how well the "system" sounds. I submit Plinius can be preferred over the Dag in one system and not another. Just like WC as already stated, "I actually remember hearing this same ref10 with a boulder 2060 and some expensive rockports speakers and the ref10 sounded awful with that combo." The same comments can apply to any component. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
viber6,
I get your passion for what you prefer. I don't get why you don't seem to understand that there are no absolutes in audio. There is no right or wrong, only preferences. e.g. I went and listened to Martin Logan CLX speakers recently. My wife and I just didn't like the way they sound in the context of the system they were in, but I understand if someone loved the way they sound.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
Viber6,
According to you, "In high-end audio, the equipment is largely overpriced with mediocre performance for the money." Please define "overpriced".  Rhetorical question... who determines value? I've been in this hobby for over 30 years. I've listened to expensive systems that sound great and relatively modest systems that sound great. We pay a lot of money for relatively minute differences. In general, based on my actual listening experience, the more expensive systems "usually" sound better. Better dynamics, larger sound-stage, more spacing between instruments, better resolution and more real sounding to my ears. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
My personal opinion and nothing more....Magico and Wilson Audio are very, very good with marketing their speakers. As a previous owner of several Wilson Audio speakers there was a feeling of pride of ownership. Elites may not own Martin Logan Neoliths for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with how they sound. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
Any good dealer should provide you a home trial.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
I'll repeat that all cables/cords are system dependent. Once again I've actually compared Shunyata Sigma NR and Alpha NR to Audioquest Hurricanes. I had the same results as MrD. Despite owing all Hurricane power cords, I must say they will be to stiff for some.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
I've tried or owned WW Platinum, WW Silver, Audience Au24, High Fidelity CT-2, Pangea, Shunyata, Blue Circle, and Audioquest power cords. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
" So far, the improvement is definitely there but I may have been expecting for the change to be a little more drastic." Slight improvements is what high-end is all about. Once you get to a certain level, big night and day differences are very rare. It really comes down to are the differences your hearing worth the money? 

To techno_dude's point, Audioquest told me, "in most systems upgrading the power cords on the source will have the most impact."
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
I heard the Gryphon Audio Colosseum Power Amplifier driving Vivid Audio Giya G1s and thought it was the best system that I’ve ever heard...natural, dynamic, speakers completely disappeared, outstanding imaging, soundstage just perfect(height,width,depth), and very musical. That system is my new standard. If I had the money that would be my last system.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
When you have speakers that are hard to drive you need amplifiers that are capable of opening them up. After hearing the Gryphon Colosseum drive the big Vivids, it would be very interesting to hear it with your MLs.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
Viber6, 

You can scroll down to Virtual System Activity or click on WW user name and you should see a picture of his system that you can select.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
Take a panoramic picture of your room and email it to GIK. They will provide recommendations at no cost. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
grey9hound is entitled to his opinion and I don't think he said anything bad. Everyone on this forum is just stating their opinion. I've talked to WC and asked what he thought about a particular amp, because at one time he had the same speakers I have. I wouldn't purchase something because he said it sounds good, but I may go listen to it. I've listened to components that he liked and I didn't think they sound good in my system. I own a component he didn't like and I have no intention of selling it. My room, ears, and music preference is different than WC. In this hobby we need to develop thick skin...no absolutes in Audio, only preferences. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
Forget equipment, your next move should be a dedicated room. I know you’ve posted that most people don’t have dedicated rooms, but my experience has been different. Every time I’ve heard an expensive system it was in a well treated dedicated room. The room has as much of an impact on sound as equipment.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,

Yes, several years ago I sent them pictures. They recommended my current treatment and for me to add a wall on my right side if possible.  My room was open on my side and I hired a contractor to add a wall with French doors.  I added the room treatment several months later. As a matter of fact I sent them pictures of my room two weeks ago and they provided additional suggestions. I can send them to you if you like? ASC is another company that provides Acoustic treatment. I think ASC quality is a little better, but they do cost more. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
Markup depends on several factors and on speakers it can be between 35 - 50%. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
I hate using the word best, so I'll say prefer. I prefer my Jeff Rowland 625 S2 to any amplfier I've heard, with the exception of the Absolare Tube mono-amps. I've compared the 625 S2 to the BHK 300s, Bryston 4B3, Esoteric S-02, Bricasti M28 mono-amps, Bel Canto Ref 1000, and McIntosh 601. In my system, to my ears the 625 S2 sounds different with every recording...e.g. my system can sound bright, laid back, big soundstage, small soundstage, bad recordings sound bad, great recordings sound great! That being said, I would love the same sound with more power, because I think additional headroom helps when I have moments when I really want to turn up the volume.
Now, if I had a smaller room, listened at moderate levels, didn't have my amp driving my front speakers when watching a movie, and the Absolare wasn't $80K a pair I would have Absolare.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
I guess in the New Year it may be time for me to exit Audiogon. I left Facebook two years ago and don't miss it at all. Everyone still believes it's about a specific component being better or worse. It's about how a component sounds when inserted into a system. In one system the sound may be preferred and another it may not. In either situation it doesn't mean it's better or worse. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
It's so sad that Viber has a need to dominate your thread. Although I read your thread, Viber is the sole reason why I and many more refuse to post on your thread. 

Viber,
I don't get your constant need to say the same thing over and over again. I've talked to several Audiogon members and all of them agree you have become a significant distraction. Please, please stop!
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
I'm a firm believer in a dedicated room with room treatment when possible. My room was open on th right side and I had a contractor build a wall with French doors to close it in. It was actually my wife's idea to prevent my children and their friends from accidentally running into my speakers. I've added GIK Acoustics for a modest cost and I love the coziness of my room. This hobby can be difficult and getting a room to sound great can be as difficult as finding the right components.I believe there are several acoustic companies that provide preconstruction advice and products. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
" So today I realized how F**ing moody the constellation centaur 2 monos are." It may have something to do with what time of day you're listening and/or how much electricity is being consumed in your area at the time. Many people believe their system's sound totally different during peak power usage in their city.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
It's so easy to have 2-channel with HT in the same system, but separate system. The easiest way is to use a preamp that has HT bypass. When you are listening to 2-channel all of the HT components are off. When you're ready for HT, select the HT bypass input on your 2-channel preamp and turn on your HT components. Most high-end preamps have HT bypass. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
mrdecibel,
"I believe the biggest problem with a 2 channel audio / home theater combination, is when you are listening to the 2 channel music system, the other multi channel speakers are also playing." If your 2-channel preamp has HT bypass that isn't a true statement. The HT components are off and your only listening to 2-channel. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
With the right projection screen and a 4K projector you can get brightness and clarity that rivals any LCD.  
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
MrD,
So, you're right, DUH... your comments,"the other multi channel speakers are also playing ( excited, was the term used )" were taken literally. Sorry for the confusion. At low to medium levels they don't get excited. When I turn it up, as I often do, you are correct that both my center and rear channels get excited. As a matter of fact, the center channel can slightly smear the image. Awhile ago I read that simply covering the center channel with a regular or acoustic blanket greatly reduces and/or eliminates the excitement. I simply cover my center speaker when I'm doing critical listening to eliminate the smearing and it really works. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
I do use a ATI AT523NC 3-channel amplifier with a Marantz AV-7002 mkii, because I only have 5.1 surround sound when using HT. I submit ATI multi-channel Class D amps offer excellent sound and outstanding value. It was an obvious step-up in sound quality over the Marantz HT receiver and Yamaha 3-channel amplifier it replaced.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
mrdecibel,
I actually have 2-channel with HT. My center speaker and rear speakers don't vibrate or get "excited" at all. 
As far as your Duh comment, no need to be sorry, I don't get excited by someone that doesn't know me typing comments trying to insult me. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
Your findings rather it's the AQ Dragon HC PCs or the Odin PCs makes this hobby a joy, frustrating, and depressing(joking) all at the same time. Some believe $9K for a power cord is crazy. I don't and your discovery serves as a reminder that everything impacts the sound of a great system. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
Who determines what's overpriced? The answer in my opinion is the end user. If I have the money to spend $50K on a cable and I think it's worth it compared to other cables I've heard, that's all that matters. 
The end user determines what the greater benefits are based on their preferences, equipment, and room. I have room treatment, but I can't suggest what would have the most impact on WC's or anyone's system. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
ron17,
I agree, he's never going to get it!
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
Some people say that Rowland amps have a "tube" sound, which includes being a little soft on the bass. I think your experience is a stark reminder that every component has tradeoffs. That all of us must pick our "poison" based on our preferences and how much we are willing to spend.
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
WC,
In my experience super high-end systems produce everything(details, tonality, bass, clarity, musicality), but what really separates them is their ability to provide a soundstage that is both, wide and tall where images are still proportional. Have you found that to be the case through your journey?
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
G.,
I know that you are a big fan of Rowland gear, as am I. Although I'm a Rowland fan, I agree with WC's opinion. Based on actual listening I submit Rowland doesn't have the slam of some amplifiers. I've heard Rowland 625s, 725s, and 925s. None of them have the slam of the Gryphon that I listened to, but do other things just as well. 
ricred1
2,068 posts
 
So, the Rowland 925s lacks 3-dimensionality and the soundstage width and depth of the Constellation? In other words the Rowland 925s are a bad value when compared to similarly priced components?
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