My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by rbach

Well I guess hell has just frozen over. I completely agree with inna. The Alexandria XLF's sound too top heavy and forward. Way too much energy from the midrange and up. I can easily see why viber loves this sound. The M6's were way more balanced. All of this new found definition and clarity is nothing more than the speaker being voiced with a hot top end.  
WTF ^ 
This is a thread you started. Guys are passionate about music and gear. You have to be able to take in the praise and accept the criticism. Like you say, no speaker or component is perfect or will suit everybody. Thick skin is called for here.  
"My comments are informational about objective descriptions of what I hear from XLF or anything else, and my speculations about how design features may correlate with what I hear.  But they are NOT "relentless preaching," or telling anyone they must dump their present speakers and get XLF, etc.  Actually, the person who says that I am preaching is uncomfortable with inconvenient truths that I present.  Well, they might now deny that I am presenting "truth."

Well viber I guess you will never get it. How many times have you badgered us about your Rane equalizer / preamp? How many times have you asked the OP to use one to increase definition and clarity? What about months and months of you and your push for Jay to get the GT Audio speakers? We've had dozens of revolts on this thread because of you pushing your 'truth' on us. You have been the butt of hundreds of jokes because you just don't get the fact that we're not interested in your 'truth'. The OP got so fed up with your non stop 'truth' he asked you to put your system on a video so we could all hear the 'truth'. Of course that never happened. Never will. I know several people who left this thread because of too much viber. You've been asked so many times in so many ways to stop posting so much and stop with the pushy repetitiveness. You didn't get it then and you don't get it now. What a shame.

How many times have we had to go through posts like the following?

Jay,
Yes, I could EQ the Alexx and get it to sound more detailed and spacious than the Chrono without EQ.  I just did you a favor in case you lust for the Chrono!!  Get the Rane, maybe put better parts in it, and rejoice.  Yes, the electronics of your Boulder or Pandora are likely much better, but careful EQ will bring out more of your music if you replace the B or G preamps with the Rane.  I'll coach you on it by phone.  No consultation fee.  If you wanted to make a hit with your consultations, I would recommend speakers, amps, cables, but recommend the Rane instead of preamps, which would give maximum flexibility and results.  Why don't you try it?  You will thank me.

And what about the endless pushing of lamp cord for speaker cables. ugh!  This is from Jay.  

"Viber,
You couldn't promote the expensive because you haven't owned it. I could say the same thing to you by telling you to stop promoting the lamp cord trials that only occur in your domain. I highly doubt anyone went out to try that on their amp.
You give tons of opinion on things that you only have really read about or seen on pictures. Why is that the case?"

I stand by my comment of "relentless preaching".

BTW this was my post dated 5/31/21 BEFORE the XLF was revealed.

"I hear what Guido hears. Sounds the opposite of the M6's. Sounds thin and forward like a speaker that needs to be broken in. Maybe a familiar recording would help. No way it's Sonus Faber. SF has a laid back warmer sound."
I agree with henry201. The Wilson XLF sounds stunning for the first several minutes then to me become fatiguing, (in person and on youtube videos). With viber constantly extolling its virtues and continually calling the M6's veiled and dull, I know I'm on the right track as far as what I'm hearing.  I find the M6's warm and more naturally balanced. I'm guessing I would find vibers system extremely fatiguing and completely unbalanced. TEHO
"With viber constantly extolling its virtues and continually calling the M6's veiled and dull, I know I'm on the right track as far as what I'm hearing.  I find the M6's warm and more naturally balanced. I'm guessing I would find vibers system extremely fatiguing and completely unbalanced. TEHO"

You call that bashing? I call that speaking the truth. Anyone that has read this thread for a few years knows EXACTLY what you prefer. We've been reminded with every piece of equipment the OP has brought into his room. I truly believe most people that participate on this thread would find your system fatiguing and out of balance, including the OP. You have been reprimanded by many on this thread including the OP for continually forcing your dogmatic views down our throats.

As far as giving you the same respect I give Jay, that will never happen. You lost my respect years ago with your relentless preaching.
You are talking in absolutes. One person's idea of a speaker that 'smokes' the XLF might not be yours. You're talking about being best again. There is no best, just personal preferences.
viber,  I think you have a lot to offer to this thread. It's the way you do it that is objectionable. If you were to tone it down some, not be so repetitive and not insist that your way is the only way, I think you would be more respected. Home audio is highly subjective.
Just when we get rid of one constant whiner another one pops up. Some people are never happy.
I agree with Jay
"yep - the entire shootout is simply to let people hear how both dacs sound with the rest of the supporting cast. Of course, if i had different speakers or cabling then maybe things would be different."

And ron17
"Not sure how you can say one DAC is better than the other. DAC #2 might sound best in Jay's room at this time (with current associated equipment) but with the M6's it might be DAC #1 that sounds best....It's all about system matching, not what people think is the best all around. IMO"

Not sure chazzzy007 gets it.
chazzzy007

This is a public forum and everyone is welcome. This thread was doing fine before you decided to grace us with your obnoxious, gloating and insultive behavior. Maybe 'What's Best Forum' would suit your style (or lack thereof) better.
From a post keithr made on WBF

"When I hear folks say $15k amplifiers are budget oriented, I feel the hobby has lost its way (see the crazy amp dude's YouTube channel that considers Pass Labs "mid fi"). The average Stereophile reader's system is $19k, but this is WBF after all so I guess it's expected. The reason this hobby has shrunk so much is the focus in the audiophile media and community on high priced bling of the month - I chuckled two years ago when TAS declared the $50k speaker category as "highly competitive." Dagostino is famously designed on form over function. Have you seen the internals of a Constellation compared with the expensive case? Why does carbon fibre and installation lights *on the back(!)* of a Chronosonic impress people?"

keithr, don't you think it would be more accurate to say the crazy amp dude placed Pass Labs in his middle tier group based on amps he has personally owned?
@viber7
I too had an unpleasant experience with Steve Williams while trying to buy 2 sets of Center Stage footers. It was my first time buying CM and I had several questions. The more questions I asked the shorter and quicker tempered he became. Before I called Steve I tried contacting Joe with my questions. I left one phone message and one email. Never got a response. I ended up purchasing the footers but ultimately sold them. I felt the isolation I was using was a better fit for my system.
 
@zprr & maxima95
Well it appears Ron Resnick monitors this thread. Feels like we got the ol' switcheroo when it comes to why Jay was banned from WBF forum. So why was he banned?  

Thanks in advance for your answer Mr. Resnick
2 2 2
To me everything sounded better with presentation #2.  Presentation #1 sounded less focused and somewhat diffused.  I'm guessing we hear about 20% (over YouTube) of what Jay hears in his room.  Thank you to viber6 and Jay for your time and effort.
+2 on ricevs comments,

Footers of various types are isolation tools just like the Artesania amp stands you seem to like and find very effective.  

"I've been saying it for some time now that i don't feel footers add music to the music. They inject this extra information that makes the presentation almost synthetic."
  
Saying that sounds like some of the posters on this thread talking about products they have never heard in person are inferior to other products they haven't heard either. I don't think a blanket statement like that is fair after only trying a couple different isolation products.
@viber6

So what you are saying is that when you made the statement:

"The Magico M9 can produce lots of bass, but the reviewer implies the overall effect is a big sound which is unfocused."

It was just pure fabrication on your part?
@viber6

"The only thing I was vague about was the statement about the M9, which I have never heard in person or in videos."

Uuh? Your statement was:
 
"The Magico M9 can produce lots of bass, but the reviewer implies the overall effect is a big sound which is unfocused."

viber6, you weren't being vague, you were very clear indicating that an unknown reviewer in an unknown review implied the M9's overall effect is a big sound which is unfocused, which was completely false.  Any respect you gained on this thread for sending your Rouge amp to Jay has again been lost by your constant twisting of the truth and posting fabricated statements to make you sound knowledgeable and well read. You should be ashamed of yourself....again. I believe you owe this thread an apology.
@thezaks

Several posters ask for viber6 to reveal the review he read in which he thought the reviewer implied the overall effect of the Magico M9 is a big sound which is unfocused. He has failed to reveal the review in question. If he can't supply the review so we can read it and try to understand what the reviewer 'implied' then he just made it up. If he just made up reading a review so he could further bash Magico and their design then it was a lie. With all due respect, an apology is in order.
@ricevs +1

"Viber likes to make up stuff to defend his position. Wish he would stick to what he experiences directly.....ie: direct sound tests in his own room. He says he abhors expensive equipment.....why keep posting here?"

You are so right.  Really tired of his twisting of the truth and fabricating to bolster his personal narrow views of how home audio should sound.
@keithr

I believe zprr does know what he's talking about. Your statement about Jay in your WBF post did not paint you in the same light as Jay (just a couple of crazy amp guys). Your statement was derogatory towards him. You were complaining about Jay calling Pass Lab amps "mid fi" and the way the hi end has gotten so expensive. Like I said in my previous post to you.
  
'keithr, don't you think it would be more accurate to say the crazy amp dude placed Pass Labs in his middle tier group based on amps he has personally owned?'
  
You made a mistake and it's time to move on instead of trying to wiggle out of it.
 
And for everyone's pleasure, here it is again.
From a post keithr made on WBF

"When I hear folks say $15k amplifiers are budget oriented, I feel the hobby has lost its way (see the crazy amp dude's YouTube channel that considers Pass Labs "mid fi"). The average Stereophile reader's system is $19k, but this is WBF after all so I guess it's expected. The reason this hobby has shrunk so much is the focus in the audiophile media and community on high priced bling of the month - I chuckled two years ago when TAS declared the $50k speaker category as "highly competitive." Dagostino is famously designed on form over function. Have you seen the internals of a Constellation compared with the expensive case? Why does carbon fibre and installation lights *on the back(!)* of a Chronosonic impress people?"
@daveyf

That post didn't get Jay banned. We still don't know why Jay was banned from WBF. I asked Ron Resnick (WBF's Site Co-Owner, Administrator) in a post on this thread why Jay was banned but Ron chose not to respond to my question.

Our issue with keithr is he bad mouthed Jay on WBF then comes on Jays thread posting like all is good. When he was called out on it he gets defensive and tells zprr he doesn't know what he's talking about.

"We may be repetitive, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing."

No, it is a bad thing. 

I agree with daveyf,


If I paid over 100k on a pair of speakers and found out only a handful of amps could drive them, I would be pissed at the speaker manufacturer...not at all of the high priced amp manufacturers that couldn't. 

@daveyf
You're confused.  Audiogon doesn't have and has never implemented the 'ignore' feature.  So why don't you tell us more about analog superiority over digital.  So very interesting.

I find it fascinating that with all of the speakers Jay has owned, the Magico S7 has the best bass he’s heard in his room. Hard to believe that a medium size speaker beats those huge Wilsons. Alon Wolf should be commended for such a wonderful design.

@charyo,

I agree with you to some extent, however we are talking about two completely different speaker designs.  The Wilson XLF @ 655lbs with (1) 15" and (1) 13" woofers and using its port to extend the bass should theoretically produce more, deeper bass than the Magico S7 @ 300lbs with (3) 10" woofers in a sealed cabinet with no help from a port and with less interaction from the room.  I have had many ported and sealed cabinet speakers.  It has been my experience that a larger ported design will produce more, deeper bass and also interact with the room more as opposed to a sealed cabinet design which I found to produce faster tighter bass and interact less with the room, but not produce more, deeper bass. 

 
Jay has reported the S7's to have the best, deepest, tightest bass he has had in his room.  That is why I said Alon Wolf should be commended for his design.

Well, this thread seems to be getting deluded by someone that obviously doesn't have enough to do.  Why bother boring us with your constant nitpicking when you could be annoying another thread? 

@carey1110

I apologize if I heard this wrong but I believe you have the Wilson Alexx V's speakers.......and the 16k Stromtank is too pricey for you? 

Of course there should be room for dialogue on this thread.  ricevs is a DIY'r who counters every purchase the OP makes with a 'better' cheaper build it yourself method.  This thread is as far from a DIY thread as can be.  I think ricevs would be a real asset to a true DIY thread.


Thank you for your response carey1110.

If one does not appreciate, agree with, or condone the way the OP is running, conducting, or operating his thread or YouTube channel, one is more than capable of avoiding, diverting or passing by such a thread.  If able to think clearly, make own decisions and operate a communication device it seems logical to avoid, steer away from and never have to waste one's time with such threads that represent, promote or stand behind products they believe in.

@carey1110

Why don't you do your own thing and let everyone here do theirs.  There's no need to keep telling everyone to ignore. You've stated your opinion several times.....enough already.

There is obviously something wrong with clearthink.  Too bad he enjoys disrupting really good threads.  Maybe we will get lucky and he'll get tired of it soon.

Jay, if you or anyone else wants to keep on telling clearthink to back off, go right ahead.  Pay no attention to carey.

Lol!  You keep suggesting to me, the OP and others how to conduct ourselves on this thread.  You are becoming annoying.  Maybe it's time for you to leave it alone.

Dear Mr. Amp,
When you're finished making short order of the doc, can you go after....errrr....I mean address the DIY'r on this thread?  Thanks in advance.